Fitness for Operational Requirements of CAF Employment ( FORCE )

[Jarry]

I was not telling I eat and text while driving it was an example . My goal was to give advice not to push people to take bad decision. I have modify the post . Have a nice day

 

[PuckChaser]

There is a new test coming: PSP is working on Project FORCE, to replace the EXPRES test. It will likely be some kind of circuit and will be based on bona fide occupational requirements.

Any idea on when this project is expected to be completed?

I've always hated the EXPRES test, I can sleep through the 20MSR to exempt and 19 pushups is just silly as a standard.

 

[navymich]

Any idea on when this project is expected to be completed?

I was a Guinea pig/tester for Project Force a few weeks ago.  They still have a few more bases to go to throughout the summer collecting more tests.  They are anticipating having the new test in place for the fall.

 

[PuckChaser]

Are you allowed to spill the beans on the test that you completed?

 

[navymich]

Are you allowed to spill the beans on the test that you completed?

Actually, yes, I am allowed.  That was one of the first questions that I asked them.  As testers, we were Stage 3 of the Project.  They had narrowed the tests down from dozens to about 13 for us.  These ones are not all guaranteed to be in the final set-up, and even we don't know which ones they are aiming for.

We tested for 3 days, spread out over 2 weeks.  The first day was expres test type items (MTF) followed by famil on the remainder of the items.  The last 2 days were the more "operational" items.  For everything, we were expected to push as hard/fast/long as we could.  There was a range of elements, trades, ages, gender and fitness levels.  Each test was individual, and there was a mandatory rest period (about 15 mins) between each.  Even each element of the expres test was separate.  We wore Heart rate monitors for the whole thing, and had vitals done each day.

Day 1 - shuttle run, push-ups, sit-ups, grip test, wall sit, hang test (hanging from a chin up bar), sandbag lift (simulating lifting sandbags into the back of a truck - timed test).  Afternoon was famil for the rest

What I liked about the remainder of the tests is that they provided a scenario that any of us could be involved in, with most of them being domestic type things so it eliminates the "but I don't deploy" cries.  Scenarios including ice storm casulaties, sandbagging for floods, setting up fencing, etc.

Day 2/3 -  (I don't have my actual list with me right now, so there will probably be a couple that I forget but this should give you a basic idea):
- stretcher carry (using a Olympic-style weight bar to simulate carrying 1/2 weight of stretcher); end based on weight
- picking and digging (interesting set-up with a trolley type thing for "picking" with a hammer), included mandatory rest times; end based on time
- casualty evacuation (pulling a loaded dummy out of the front seat of a truck, dragging then 1/2 weight to simulate someone helping you); end based on weight
- pickets & wires (walking loaded, running empty handed; 10-30m stretches repeatedly; using weight bars and kettle bells to simulate weights of pickets and concertina wire); end based on time
- sandbag fortification; moving 60 sandbags from one pallet to another; end based on time
- sandbag drag; end based on weight
- escape to cover; end based on time

For the tasks based on time, you completed them once.  For the tasks based on weight, you picked a starting weight (we were able to determine that on the famil day) and you could increase weight at an interval determined by yourself until you maxed out.

When we completed everything, we were given a USB with all of our data on it.  Eventually, this information will be able to be fed into a website that will determine a personal fitness program in order to maintain or meet the standards.

Based on discussions I have had with friends from other elements, I can imagine what will be said on here!  I will try to answer the questions that I can.  There is also another member on the site here who was involved in Phase 2 that I might be able to get to put his words in as well.

 

[PuckChaser]

Great read, thanks!

Is the chosen weight something just for the trials so they can determine what a good baseline would be for each test?

 

[armyguy1]

What would you propose we switch for in place of situps?

Crunch/Curl-ups
Front Plank & Side Planks
Reverse Crunch (look it up if you don't know, you have your feet in the air and you raise your butt off the ground)

As for the person that commented on Squats being bad. Yes if technique is bad, but if done correctly then Squats are actually one of the best exercises you can do in the weight room, they are the best exercise for developing legs and core strength (with the exception of possibly Olympic lifts). The main argument with squats is not if it is bad for you back, but bad for your knees, and studies have shown that if you actually go low enough it is NOT bad for your knees, the highest stress point on your joints in a squat is during the transition from eccentric to concentric motion. If you transition above parallel then the knees take most of the stress, however, if you go below parallel the stress transfers from the knees to the hips. 

Anyways, this isn't a topic about squats, it is about sit-ups and I am glad to read the progress being made by the Military to modernize its fitness.

I am actually a strength and conditioning specialist with the International Sports Sciences Association... But I am looking at a career change... hoping to become an Infantry Officer... applying for ROTP this September for the following year. The army or military for that matter, seems like an amazing career choice, my passion for it goes all the way back to when I was a little kid playing 'war' with my friends and creating little army clubs throughout my elementary school years. I would have signed up earlier if I wasn't caught up with competitive sport. 

 

[navymich]

Is the chosen weight something just for the trials so they can determine what a good baseline would be for each test?

We each got to pick our own starting weight and increase if we wanted to.  They are using the max weight chosen/passed for each person as their result.  Whether they aren't sure of how it will be finalized, or they weren't telling us, I don't know.  Speculation is for two options though: a standard weight across the board (although given the range of size and ability of CF personnel, that would be odd) or setting standards based on age and/or gender.

 

[MikeL]

Good that we are moving away from the current express test,  but there are better ways of testing fitness rather then moving sandbags and picking/digging.

Something similar to the new PT test the US Army is making,  as well as the USMC Combat Fitness Test would be better IMO

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/marines/a/cft.htm
http://www.army.mil/article/56445/
http://www.army.mil/article/52631/

 

[Jarnhamar]

Before we move to any sort of new fitness test we need to decide what happens when someone fails the test and how it will be enforced.

 

[Haggis]

Before we move to any sort of new fitness test we need to decide what happens when someone fails the test and how it will be enforced.

As to what happens when someone fails, read DAOD 5023-2.  As to how it will be enforced that is up to your chain of command.  I have personally seen officers at NDHQ placed on remedial measures as per DAOD 5019-4 for a first EXPRES test failure.

 

[Jarnhamar]

As to what happens when someone fails, read DAOD 5023-2.  As to how it will be enforced that is up to your chain of command.  I have personally seen officers at NDHQ placed on remedial measures as per DAOD 5019-4 for a first EXPRES test failure.

I book marked the link thank you.

Have any trained CF members ever been released for failing to meet the fitness standard?

 

[aesop081]

Have any trained CF members ever been released for failing to meet the fitness standard?

Yes.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Yes.

I didn't think the CF had it in them. I'm surprised yet glad to hear that. And glad to hear my assumptions were wrong.

 

[buzgo]

I didn't think the CF had it in them. I'm surprised yet glad to hear that. And glad to hear my assumptions were wrong.

It happens all the time. Periodically you will see a CANFORGEN about PSP running the 5 common tasks test on a base somewhere. This is so all of the 'last chance' people can go do the test. Remember, once you go through the failures, remedial PT etc, the last hope to remain in is to pass the 5 common tasks test. It is harder than the EXPRES or BFT.


Ref the Project FORCE standards. Since it is going to be based on bona fide occupational requirements (BFOR), it will be a minimal standard. So there will be ONE standard across the board, with no differences for age or gender. There will also be NO INCENTIVE LEVELS. This doesn't mean it will be easy, and they expect a greater number of failures than currently seen with EXPRES. I have heard that there will be a trial year to start, so that people can get working on the dfit.ca training programs.

As an aside, the current EXPRES standards for women specifically, were developed using bad methodology. They based the test on results obtained using a small sample of the female population: I hear that it was something like 5 or 6 individuals. So that is why females need to get 3 and males need 7. Also, the incentive exempt levels are just arbitrary - no scientific reason for a man 30 - 39 to get level 8 on the shuttle.

 

[navymich]

I have heard that there will be a trial year to start, so that people can get working on the dfit.ca training programs.

Yes, they told us that when testing starts and if you fail the first time, you will be placed on remedial but there will be no administrative action.  This is because it is new and unknown,so it allows for someone to learn the tasks and prepare for them as required.

They based the test on results obtained using a small sample of the female population:

Unfortunately, they were having a similar problem with this testing.  They put the call out for x number of males and females but got very little response on the female side.  Hopefully more will try it out as the testing continues on other bases.  It is a great experience and gives you that edge up on what to expect.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Good stuff Airmich!

What are you impressions of the test ?  Did you find it challenging ?  Do you think it better reflects the required fitness standards of CF pers ?

 

[McG]

Whatever Project FORCE delivers, there needs to be a single CF fitness test as opposed to the current selection of tests. 

Neither the ability to run nor the ability to march with a ruck act as a statistically significant indicator of one's ability to do the other.  That means that the current BFT passes individuals who would fail the CF Express, and it gives these people exempt score at merit boards.

The future Army fitness test either needs to be the CF test, the CF test with a higher standard, or the CF test with a "bolt on" Army specific module.

Here is some related reading on both Project FORCE and the disparity between what is measured by current CF and Army fitness testing:  http://www.cfpsa.com/en/psp/HumanPerformance/Documents/CAJ_vol13.2_09_e.pdf
and from another source :http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/caj/documents/vol_13/iss_2/CAJ_vol13.2_09_e.pdf

 

[dapaterson]

Last I heard: FORCE will be the Army standard.  Op Deployments may place additional fitness requirements on pers.

 

[buzgo]

I have it from a pretty good source that all the elements have signed off on using whatever Project FORCE delivers. All of the 'extra fitness' jobs (JTF2, CSOR, divers, firefighter, SAR tech) will still do their own tests.

Also I have been hearing that the Army is now doing the EXPRES and BFT, since BFT was declared a 'deployment only' standard and not a fitness test.

Personally, I think the BFT is junk - I've NEVER carried a rucksack for 13km on a deployment or an op. If I did, I suspect it would weigh a lot more than the test weight. What exactly is it supposed to be testing? This could be a whole new thread...