Firearms training

[Fencer_1983]

I have a question about rifle training.. going to the range.. etc. I've currently passed my medical/aptitude/interview and should be going to BMQ this summer as reserve OCdt.  As an officer I have read, or heard a lot of people saying that after your basic training and such, you do not get to practice your personal firearm skills much.  Marksmanship has always been an interest of mine although I have never fired a C7.. I have my firearms license and sometimes visit local ranges/gun clubs for the sheer sport of practicing.  I'm curious if I would be allowed to a) either get additional range time somehow if it didn't interfere with my standard duties, or b) if I would at all be allowed to get papers to allow me to transport my military rifle to a civilian gun range to practice on my own free time.

I'm just curious if this would be plausible or whether I'm just doing some overly wishful thinking.

 

[Greymatters]

I have a question about rifle training.. going to the range.. etc. I've currently passed my medical/aptitude/interview and should be going to BMQ this summer as reserve OCdt. 

Excellent work, not everyone makes the cut...

As an officer I have read, or heard a lot of people saying that after your basic training and such, you do not get to practice your personal firearm skills much. 

Not true.  A lot depends on what occupation you are in and what base you are at.  (i.e. some bases have ranges nearby so access to training is a bit easier.).  It is possible to get more training time if you try out for, or get onto, a rifle/marksmanship team.  However, 'personal' firearms practice time using your own weapons is seperate from military training time, and done on your own time. 

Marksmanship has always been an interest of mine although I have never fired a C7..

You'll get plenty of practice I'm sure once you're in the door...

I have my firearms license and sometimes visit local ranges/gun clubs for the sheer sport of practicing. 

Extra practice always helps...

I'm curious if I would be allowed to a) either get additional range time somehow if it didn't interfere with my standard duties, or b) if I would at all be allowed to get papers to allow me to transport my military rifle to a civilian gun range to practice on my own free time.

A) This can be done as part of unit marksmanship teams, working with ground training units (the ones who conduct the training for the unit), or getting your range officer qualification.
B) Not a chance.  Dont even ask.

I'm just curious if this would be plausible or whether I'm just doing some overly wishful thinking.

Definately wishful.  Take your time, you've got a whole career in front of you and plenty of time to practice...

 

[Fencer_1983]

Sorry, I should have specified I'm going Artillery.  I figured that as such I wouldn't get as much practice as say, Infantry.

In any case, thanks a lot! Very informative.

If it really comes down to it (like a few years from now) and I felt I wanted more practice I'm sure I could pick up an old SKS or something to go on my own free time.

 

[KevinB]

Buy an Ar15 - and go to Keith Cunninham's MILCUN classes - he is in Ont.  Also the ORA runs service rifle matches and courses in Borden (to which you can bring mil weapons via your unit shooting team - or just go as yourself with your own personal firearm)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

or if you are quite broke, buy a 10/22, a membership in a range and practice, practice. If you can afford otherwise follow I-6's advice. If you are inbetween broke and affordibilty, Norinco makes a clone of the AR, that goes for around $7-800.

 

[geo]

Fencer...
Rare are the occasions when a unit will permit one of their members to retain at home their service rifle.
It just does not happen any more...¸

As I6 has suggested, buying your own AR15 will give you a weapon that weighs and feels somewhat like the C7
Then you can look around for a Military rifle association and participate on their shoots .  Note that, because you will be away taking your phase training over the next couple of summers, your chances of participating on Mil rifle assn shoots are 1) Slim  or 2) None

 

[TN2IC]

Fencer...
Rare are the occasions when a unit will permit one of their members to retain at home their service rifle.
It just does not happen any more...¸

As I6 has suggested, buying your own AR15 will give you a weapon that weighs and feels somewhat like the C7
Then you can look around for a Military rifle association and participate on their shoots .  Note that, because you will be away taking your phase training over the next couple of summers, your chances of participating on Mil rifle assn shoots are 1) Slim  or 2) None

Best time to shoot is in the winter like some of us...  ;D

 

[Fencer_1983]

Thanks guys!  I completely forgot about the AR15 option...

 

[Blackthorne]

Buy an Ar15 - and go to Keith Cunninham's MILCUN classes - he is in Ont.  Also the ORA runs service rifle matches and courses in Borden (to which you can bring mil weapons via your unit shooting team - or just go as yourself with your own personal firearm)

X2

MILCUN is a top notch facility and overlaps civilian and military discipline. Keith has forgotten more than I could learn in 5 lifetimes, and on top of that is a great guy.

 

[glock17]

Mr. Cunningham, was my O.C. in Recce, way back in the early eighties. He was the Captain of our Rifle Team and Course Officer for two of my trade related courses. Him, along with Mr. Surette, taught long gun work like no others I have seen before nor since. I  have kept in sporadic contact with him and his lovely wife over the decades and had the honour of working with him once again, for several weeks last summer. Not much has changed, he has high demands of his Students, and those working for him. ( ouch ) When you give it everything you've got, he'll be your best friend, when you don't, yes, he'll let you know it.

His facility at MILCUN is outstanding, given the fact that he has funded, designed and built it practically with his own hands. He continues to work with Military, Police and Private Operators at the very highest levels, his courses are excellent, at a substantive cost, and worth every penny. If one considers the investment in refining these particular skills, in comparison to other trade related training, it is reasonable by any measure.

For those of you who are not aware, he has founded the "Operational Shooting Association" as a platform for continuous training, for Armed Professionals, more information should be available on his web site http://www3.sympatico.ca/milcun/ and although the ranges are buried in deep snow, they are working on the 2008 Training Calendar as we speak.

BTW This is a shameless plug, of one of my "Competitors", whose outstanding abilities I have admired for many, many years. Take it for what it's worth.

And, Stay Safe

Stay Safe

 

[MG34]

This may not be the popular view but , although Keith is one of the guys I would go to for long range precision shooting refresher training,he has been out of the "tactical loop" for a number of years. His  carbine courses are not much more than an intro to the C8 family, and an intro to position shooting (ie static known distance).
  For a real deal balls to the wall tactical course  you need an up to date course package,with up to date material. There are plenty of schools in the US that offer more timely info, in a realistic high stress setting, to put it bluntly at this point in time no shooting school in Canada can offer what is being taught in the US, our climate, idiotic firearms laws, and rogue CFO decisions and criminal code have severly limited our options as trainers.
 

 

[Loch Sloy!]

Rare are the occasions when a unit will permit one of their members to retain at home their service rifle.

An exception would be the Rangers unless things have changed recently.

 

[glock17]

Actually MG, I agree with most of what you're saying. I should have been a clearer in my praises for my former Mentor. Fundamentals and making the perfect shot, those are extremely valuable skills, and Mr. Cunningham is one of the finest Teachers of those aspects I have ever seen.

As for your opinion regarding shooting schools in Canada? I know of you, know quite a few that have worked for you, and over you, and with you, throughout your career, and from that, ( hey you must be a popular guy ) I have a great deal of respect for your experience and knowledge. But....... I run a shooting school in Canada, and I do quite a good job of it, have done for quite a long time, and I train in the States as well, continuously.

Your big wide brush just got paint all over my jumblies

Stay Safe

After re-reading the above, I must in fairness say, you're probably right about the rest of it too, I just hate having my face rubbed in it, and will likely continue the struggle for change...... :crybaby:

 

[MG34]

No offence intended, but some times you  gaotta lay the cards on the table

 

[FullMetalParka]

If you find that you're not getting enough practice with your issued weapon, you should definitely consider the AR-15 option. With a few inexpensive modifications it will basically be a C7 (although semi-automatic.) In fact, if you get a 20"-barreled AR-15 (such as this,) you probably won't be able to tell the difference. The most expensive C7 clone item I can think of is the ELCAN scope, I think they are quite expensive.

 

[benny88]

Fencer, I am a Reg-Force OCdt at Civvy U. I am a member of the mess here in London, and, as such am invited to shoots when they have them. Once you go on course and become qualified on the C7, go back to home/school, I assume the same thing will be offered to you.