F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

[WingsofFury]

Has this been decided? I understand the desire for an internal gun, but I was under the impression that the more robust landing gear, tail hook, and folding wings were advantageous for how we operate our fighter fleet, and I believe there's an advantage in range as well, based on both more fuel and larger wing area.

Not entirely sure that I understand your question, so if my answer is inaccurate please let me know.

The F-35A variant is the one being pursued by the Government at this time.  The plane will come armed with a GAU-12 Equalizer 25 mm cannon and has planned add ons which include the addition of a drag chute which will be situated at the rear of the aircraft between the tail fins as well as a refuelling probe at the nose of the aircraft similar to that being placed on the B/C variants.

According to data released regarding performance standards, the A model has the same wing area (42.7m square) as that of the B which is less than that of the C model (62.1m square).  The A model has a greater internal fuel capacity (8,390kg vs. the 6,030kg of the B model) and as a result it also has both a greater range (2,220km vs. 1,670km) and a greater combat radius based on internal fuel (1,090km vs. 833km) respectively.

Neither variant (A/B) has the size/range/combat radius of the C version which is being designed specifically for US carrier operations.  As well, the notion that folding wings are advantageous for how we operate our fighter fleet isn't really a consideration given that we do not perform carrier based operations where wing folding is necessary to ensure maximum space utilisation in a finite area.

Hope that helps...??

 

[WingsofFury]

Although not related to our eventual purchase, it will be interesting to see what will come of this competition. 

Four candidates short-listed in Korea's stealth jet project

2011-07-20 21:16

Korea will acquire a new generation of stealth fighter jets from overseas to better counter North Korean provocations, the local defense procurement agency said Wednesday.

The Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) said it has narrowed down the candidates to four fighters: the F-15SE Silent Eagle by Boeing, F-35 Lightning II by Lockheed Martin, Eurofighter Typhoon by the European Aeronautic Defense and Space Company (EADS) and the T-50 PAK-FA by Russian firm Sukhoi.

According to DAPA, the project to acquire 60 fifth-generation stealth fighters is worth 8.29 trillion won ($7.86 billion).

Korea is expected to choose the winner in October next year.

"We've eased the criteria for operational capabilities to ensure more jets could enter the bidding," the agency said in a statement. "We will set up strategies that will allow for the transfer of core technology and that will encourage competition."

DAPA said the new generation of fighters will better prepare Korea against North Korea's "asymmetric capabilities" and will enhance the South's deterrence against surprise air attacks.

The agency said Seoul will also acquire AH-X attack helicopters from overseas. The AH-1W SuperCobra by Bell and AH-64D Block III by Boeing, both American choppers, will compete with the EC-665 Tiger by Eurocopter of France and the T-129 by Turkey.

This project, worth 1.84 trillion won, will see Korea purchase 36 attack helicopters. The winner of the bid will also be announced in October next year. (Yonhap News)

http://www.koreaherald.com/national/Detail.jsp?newsMLId=20110720000961

 

[aesop081]

Low Rate Initial Production lot two

:boring:

More aircraft that will either have to a) be retired early on or b) extensively modified after testing is complete as they will not likely meet the specs of the operational, full-production design.

it will be interesting to see what will come of this competition. 

Interesting indeed as they are considering PAK-FA. Both Koreas facing each other, both flying Russian designs ?

 

[WingsofFury]

More aircraft that will either have to a) be retired early on or b) extensively modified after testing is complete as they will not likely meet the specs of the operational, full-production design.

As part of its role is for maintenance training purposes, I can foresee this plane being retired after it's flight hours are maxed and then still used to train classes of maintainers on the airframe issues they may encounter during the plane's life.

Interesting indeed as they are considering PAK-FA. Both Koreas facing each other, both flying Russian designs?

That'd be interesting...although I think this will come down to the SE and the JSF if their current fleet is any indication of a purchasing trend.

 

[FoverF]

I think this will come down to the SE and the JSF if their current fleet is any indication of a purchasing trend.

If I'm not mistaken (which I probably am), I think that South Korea operates some Russian military gear, like BMP-3s and T-90s. I think they also have some involvement in the S400 SAM  program, and a few other Russian missile projects. Nothing Earth-shattering, but there is some recent history there.

Naturally, I agree with your statement here, I'm just pointing out that there are probably more Russian-South Korean defence ties these days than many people might otherwise expect.

 

[Don2wing]

UPDATE 1-Australia may reconsider F-35 order after cost blowout, delays
Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:38pm EDT


CANBERRA, July 27 (Reuters) - Australia may reconsider a A$16 billion ($17.5 billion) plan to buy 100 of Lockheed Martin Corp's F-35 Joint Strike Fighters because of delivery delays and cost overruns, the government said on Wednesday.

Repeated delays and ballooning costs in the F-35 programme are now starting to rub against already generous delivery and cost limits set by the government and military planners, Australian Defence Minister Stephen Smith said.

"We are running close up to those schedules, particularly on delivery. So I've made the point very clear that we are now monitoring very closely the delivery timetable and we are also monitoring very closely the cost," Smith told Australian radio after meeting defence officials in Washington.

Australia, which is helping develop the F-35, has committed to buying 14 of the stealth aircraft and had initially planned for first deliveries in 2011. That has now been pushed back to 2014 and even that date may be in jeopardy.

Australia recently took delivery of the first of 24 F/A-18F Super Hornet multi-role fighter aircraft manufactured by Boeing to replace ageing strike bombers. Smith said Canberra could consider buying more of these in place of the F-35.

"That's an obvious option. But we need to take this step by step. It's early days," he said. "We need to continue to monitor the situation very carefully and closely."

Smith said he had raised his concerns with U.S. Vice Admiral David Venlet, executive officer for the F-35 Lightning II Program, and would make decisions after the U.S. completed an extensive risk assessment on the troubled project.

Australia's Defence Ministry had voiced concerns this year that further delays could create a hole in defences, and media reports at the time indicated the government was looking for alternatives.

Australia has already begun a multi-billion-dollar upgrade of its military that includes new air defence destroyers, two large amphibious assault ships, helicopters, tanks, long-range cruise missiles and 12 new long-range missile submarines costing $25 billion.

Lockheed is developing three F-35 versions for the United States and eight international partners at a projected cost of more than $382 billion for 2,443 aircraft over the next two decades. It is the most expensive U.S. arms purchase.

The cost of each aircraft has rocketed from $69 million to $103 million apiece, with design and development flaws plaguing planners and worrying lawmakers. (Reporting by Rob Taylor in CANBERRA and Balazs Koranyi in SYDNEY; Editing by Mark Bendeich)

 

[WingsofFury]

:boring:

More aircraft that will either have to a) be retired early on or b) extensively modified after testing is complete as they will not likely meet the specs of the operational, full-production design.

Hey...they all needed to be used in some way shape or form...take the Hornet below.

It turns out that this particular Hornet -- serial 160778 -- was the FOURTH production F-18 ever built, identified as being an F/A-18A-2-MC.S  It was sent to the Canadian Forces for structural tests and has never been flown by the Canadian Forces.  It currently resides at the Non Destructive Testing Branch of ATESS at 8 Wing CFB Trenton.

 

[Jammer]

Given the current state of the US DoD and the anticipated cut of 350 Billion dollars over the next ten years is it realistic that the procurement F-35 could be substantially reduced of chopped outright?

Where would this leave Canada in terms of seeking a replacement for the CF-18?

 

[aesop081]

take the Hornet below.

I've already see your post on airshowbuzz.............

 

[WingsofFury]

I've already see your post on airshowbuzz.............

hehe

Jammer,

Interesting point but in my humble opinion I just don't see the Republicans downsizing their country's military capacity.  In all likelihood they will decimate what little social services they currently have along with the size of government before considering taking aim at their forces.

That being said, there are options for the United States to save money by streamlining operations within their Forces.  Being an air show fan myself, I would expect the number of demo teams to be cut along with the number of appearances they display at through the year as a start. 

Should certain F-35 capabilities be proven successful in a reasonable timeframe, say within the next couple of years, then the US Navy fleet which contains about 150 Hornets and 142 Harriers could be reduced in number by retiring some of the older hour airframes and replacing them with the JSF's.  The same could also be achieved in ANG units currently flying older block F-16's set to replaced when sufficient numbers of F-35's are produced.

I believe that the big number for Canada is ensuring that we pay the $9 billion for 65 aircraft as it's outlined in the documents put forth. 

 

[Jammer]

The GOP just signed off on a bill that will see massive cuts to the DoD budget over the next ten years. I suspect projects that are still in the prototype stage will be among the first to go...read f-35...The F-22 is likely to see a shortened life span given it's history of troubles, and the Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey will cease production.

 

[Haletown]

The GOP just signed off on a bill that will see massive cuts to the DoD budget over the next ten years. I suspect projects that are still in the prototype stage will be among the first to go...read f-35...The F-22 is likely to see a shortened life span given it's history of troubles, and the Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey will cease production.

What did they agree on ?

Haven't checked in detail but it looks like in the total US budget, the max reduction is  $2.5t over ten years, or $250b per year.

How much of that will be DOD forced to eat?  Every time they cut a program, jobs go away so politicians will fight like crazy to keep their local boondoggles going regardless.

Here's the current DOD budget summary . . .

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy12/pdf/BUDGET-2012-BUD-7.pdf

 

[aesop081]

and the Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey will cease production.

The V-22 is mature and has already proven its worth. Replacing the CH-46 needs to be done. I personaly do not see cuts of any significance to that program. The US Navy's carrier force is a more likely candidate to take a hit as is, IMHO, the decision to extend  DDG-51 production. The F-35 will probably make an easy target ( the B-model even more so) as will be the USAF next-gen bomber hopes.I can see the B-1 program being summed up in short order and perhaps even retirement of the C-5 prematurely. Expect a round of new base closures and more ANG units to convert from fighters to UAVs as the traditional hand-me-downs from the regular USAF dries up completely.

IMHO, of course.

 

[Jammer]

No details have emerged yet. The Senate Armed Services Commitee will have to approve cuts and reallocation of funds. No doubt there will be a lot of partisan fighting to come.

It's being said that a good deal of the reduction of funds will come largely from the drawdowns in Afghanistan and Iraq...but big ticket spenders such as the Navy and Air Force will certainly see major programs delayed or eliminated.

 

[Jammer]

...which rolls into the second pert of my question.
Does anyone think DND has an alterantive plan to replace the CF-18 with another contender if the F-35 programme tanks.

 

[aesop081]

...which rolls into the second pert of my question.
Does anyone think DND has an alterantive plan to replace the CF-18 with another contender if the F-35 programme tanks.

...All the ones we've rejected  ;D

The RAF would probably be very happy to turn over some of their Tranche 3 Typhoon commitments to us, just like they did with the Saudi Tranche 2s.

 

[Jammer]

hmmmm...ponders the thought....nice touch.

 

[aesop081]

hmmmm...ponders the thought....nice touch.

The first 24 Saudi aircraft were taken from the RAF's Tranche 2 production, and were supposed to have been replaced at the end of Tranche 2. They will now be accounted against the UK's Tranche 3A total, making it an effective reduction of 24 aircraft in the UK orders. They get to say they fullfilled their commitments without having to own or operate them. It could be argued that the RAF could do a similar deal to reduce its Tranche 3 commitments due to the cutbacks its facing.

Note that this would NOT mean used British kit........

 

[WingsofFury]

...which rolls into the second pert of my question.
Does anyone think DND has an alterantive plan to replace the CF-18 with another contender if the F-35 programme tanks.

I think that the JSF program as a whole will still be viable even if the US doesn't order as many planes as they once believed they would. 

The contract, once arranged, would be through the manufacturer and, seeing as most of the R&D has already been completed and paid for thanks to Tier 1 partners in the program it would still leave us with a plane which has LO characteristics for about the same price as any aircraft that are in the market today.

I still like my idea though...2 platform system is the best way to go...hehe

 

[aesop081]

The contract, once arranged, would be through the manufacturer

IIRC, the F-35 deals are being done through Foreign Military Sales (FMS) and not direct commercial sales.