ETO's

[MP 811]

Can anyone point me in the direction on where I can find directives on ETO's?  I'm specifically looking for guidelines on usage of days and whether or not you can be "forced" to use accumulated time off.

thanks

 

[PMedMoe]

I don't think ETO is considered actual "leave" (and I don't believe you'll find directives for it), but here's the link for the CF Leave Manual:  http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/pd/lea-con/doc/cflpm-mprcfc-eng.pdf

 

[MP 811]

Thanks for the link!  I know its not leave per say, just looking at a situation I'm in and would like to see if there is anything out there for direction. Is ETO even recognized anymore, or does it fall under "Special Leave"?

As an example..........I'm a day worker, Monday to Friday with weekends off, like most.  If I lost two weekends in Nov, I've earned 4 ETO's.  Is it written anywhere when I have to use these days?

 

[aesop081]

  Is it written anywhere when I have to use these days?

It is likely that your unit itself as a policy on this.

 

[MP 811]

Yes thats the problem........we dont and trying to incorporate a Sqn out of Trenton's policy is getting lukewarm results....

 

[MJP]

  If I lost two weekends in Nov, I've earned 4 ETO's.  Is it written anywhere when I have to use these days?

I need to work for your unit...I wish I had gotten a day off for every weekend day worked.  As CA said it is a unit policy.  In most of the units that I have belonged too CTO/ETO days were taken enmasse within the unit, usually after an exercise.  If I had troops that worked a weekend day or week evening for me I would usually give them the next feasible working day off.  Tracking and banking unofficial days is a pain in the butt and a nightmare of "individual" entitlement issues.

 

[PMedMoe]

ETO differs from unit to unit.  I know that years ago ( :-\) when I was a Tfc Tech in Greenwood, we kept a log of hours, once you got eight, it was a day off.  I used to use mine immediately to avoid the chance of losing them.

 

[MJP]

  I used to use mine immediately to avoid the chance of losing them.

I must say that besides excellent logic on your part, you must have had leadership that realized that you put in extra time and deserved that time off now.  Not banked in some magic penny jar for the future.

 

[aesop081]

My last unit was very supportive when it came to making up time off......the unit's operations schedule on the other hand, was less accomodating. If i had taken every missed day off later, the unit would have had to shut down.

Sometimes we got them, sometimes we didn't. That's just the way it was.

 

[PMedMoe]

you must have had leadership that realized that you put in extra time and deserved that time off now.  Not banked in some magic penny jar for the future.

Actually, yes we did.  :nod:

 

[CountDC]

No there is not an official policy on what you are asking because technically it does not exist.  Just because you work a weekend does not mean you earn 2 days "ETO" (does not exist).  As it goes - you are paid 24/7 and can be employed as such.  It is up to your boss to decide if they want to give you time off for those weekends unless the chain of command has issued a policy. Then of course your boss should be adhering to that.  Personally I think all units should have a policy stating the boss can give you the time off within the same month at their discretion.  Work load too high then no time off.

Have you tried the official route for this - submit a leave pass requesting 2 days short with a statement explaining the reason for the request? Short does exist so the CO can compensate members for what you are talking about if they want.

 

[MP 811]

CountDC, thanks for the response.  Actually getting the ETO's is not an issue, its the seemingly weekly changes on when we can use said ETO's thats becoming an issue.  I do fully realize that we're paid 24/7 but  some of our days can be up to an 18 hour day and requires flying, yet we're not aircrew.

 

[aesop081]

  yet we're not aircrew.

So ? Most of my flying days were 18 hours long and i still missed most of my days off and rarely managed to get them back ?

 

[MP 811]

So ? Most of my flying days were 18 hours long and i still missed most of my days off and rarely managed to get them back ?

Ok.....AGAIN, the point is NOT getting time off.  Go read the thread again.....i'm asking for clarification on WHEN said ETO's can be used..............

 

[McG]

Can anyone point me in the direction on where I can find directives on ETO's?  I'm specifically looking for guidelines on usage of days and whether or not you can be "forced" to use accumulated time off.

There is no such thing as ETO.  However, there are mechanisms in the Leave Manual.  These mechanisms are at the discretion of the CO (so be thankfull when you get tem at all) and in some cases are very perscriptev as to timelines for a CO to authorize them. The mechanisms are:
[list type=decimal][*]when a member is away from home on duty for operations and training exercises, career courses or incremental taskings within or outside Canada, Special Leave (Relocation) may be granted at the discretion of the CO.  The leave manual is very perscriptive about when this leave may be taken in relation to the dates the member (you) would have been away.  You would not be entitled to this leave for coming into the office to work on a weekend.

[*]Alternately, Short Leave may be authorized to compensate, in part, for long hours worked during extended periods of operations/training or working on normal days of rest.  Short is limited to a maximum of two days a month.[/list]
If you are getting ETO/CTO by anyother means or in greater quantities, then it is Special Leave (SECRET Under-the-Table) a.k.a Special Leave (Illegal). 

 

[MP 811]

Thanks a ton MCG!.......that's what I needed.

 

[aesop081]

Ok.....AGAIN, the point is NOT getting time off.  Go read the thread again.....i'm asking for clarification on WHEN said ETO's can be used..............

I don't need to read the thread again, once was enough. I was just wondering what your "yet we're not aircrew" comment had to do with anything.

 

[Strike]

I don't need to read the thread again, once was enough. I was just wondering what your "yet we're not aircrew" comment had to do with anything.

I think he was referring to the fact that he does not then get crew rest that aircrew are suposed to get prior to starting his next shift.

 

[aesop081]

I think he was referring to the fact that he does not then get crew rest that aircrew are suposed to get prior to starting his next shift.

I'm sure he wants to fly with the crew who's been on min crew rest for 3 flights in a row. But then again, crew rests actualy exists and is spelled out in orders. "ETO" "CTO" "whatever" don't exist.

 

[MP 811]

I'm sure he wants to fly with the crew who's been on min crew rest for 3 flights in a row. But then again, crew rests actualy exists and is spelled out in orders. "ETO" "CTO" "whatever" don't exist.

I work the same hours as the crew does.....at times, maybe an hour or so more.  Sometimes, the crew are waiting for me/us on the bus as we finish up what needs to be done.

Im also looking at other Sqn's orders pertaining to this issue, which I stated in my 3rd post of this topic.  Im hoping that we can incorporate these order's into our unit.