Engineering Experiences in Afghanistan

[Nemesis]

I have spent alot of time between working out of KAF and the PRT as EOD.  From what I have seen from the sections working out of the PRT and KAf, I think the ENGRs were very able to adapt from engrs to inftry, and back to engr when needed.  The few times I rode with a PL from the PRT (myself and the engr sect. comdr) I was able to play infantry, engr, EOD no problem.  However, I think that the engr sect that was in the PRT acted more like infantry, than engrs. 

It was a challange for me working with Clearance Divers being that they don't have a clue on "combat arms" when they come with us on tour.  It was almost like baby sitting them when it hit the fan.  I was more worried about the diver(s) safety than mine when we got involved in a TIC.  I will say that the diver I was teamed up with had is crap sorted, but the odd time I was paired up with someone else, it was challenging.

I see things changing.  Slowly.  I know my hvy eqpt. friends were very PO'd because of the crap equipment, and lack of it, for all the tasks they were given.  We def. need new hvy eqpt for them, and not the crap no name shiite either.

Aswell, I think we need to train like we fight.  didn't see any MTVE/TLAV over there....did you?

As for the mini robot with the Recce sgt.....why.  The Vangaurd ins't good/reliable outside a nice building. 

EOD/IEDD could use more/better equip...ie, bison, vanguard ect, and I think a IEDD/EOD mbr should be imbedded within a Sect. or avail to a sect on operations.  But that could open up a can of worms.

We need newer better equip. on operations, and train with the kit b4 we deploy.  I think the CBT Engrs from Norway have it rite, or close to perfect for pers. and section equipt. 

Ahh...I could go on, but I won't.  Sorry for the wondering of the subect.

In all, we need to do more training with the INF, so we all know what we all can do, and how long it takes, without skipping corners. 

Cheers.

 

[043]

I have spent alot of time between working out of KAF and the PRT as EOD.  From what I have seen from the sections working out of the PRT and KAf, I think the ENGRs were very able to adapt from engrs to inftry, and back to engr when needed.  The few times I rode with a PL from the PRT (myself and the engr sect. comdr) I was able to play infantry, engr, EOD no problem.  However, I think that the engr sect that was in the PRT acted more like infantry, than engrs. 

It was a challange for me working with Clearance Divers being that they don't have a clue on "combat arms" when they come with us on tour.  It was almost like baby sitting them when it hit the fan.  I was more worried about the diver(s) safety than mine when we got involved in a TIC.  I will say that the diver I was teamed up with had is crap sorted, but the odd time I was paired up with someone else, it was challenging.

I see things changing.  Slowly.  I know my hvy eqpt. friends were very PO'd because of the crap equipment, and lack of it, for all the tasks they were given.  We def. need new hvy eqpt for them, and not the crap no name shiite either.

Aswell, I think we need to train like we fight.  didn't see any MTVE/TLAV over there....did you?

As for the mini robot with the Recce sgt.....why.  The Vangaurd ins't good/reliable outside a nice building. 

EOD/IEDD could use more/better equip...ie, bison, vanguard ect, and I think a IEDD/EOD mbr should be imbedded within a Sect. or avail to a sect on operations.  But that could open up a can of worms.

We need newer better equip. on operations, and train with the kit b4 we deploy.  I think the CBT Engrs from Norway have it rite, or close to perfect for pers. and section equipt. 

Ahh...I could go on, but I won't.  Sorry for the wondering of the subect.

In all, we need to do more training with the INF, so we all know what we all can do, and how long it takes, without skipping corners. 

Cheers.

Nemesis,

Good points however, I think you need to remember that EOD is not a trade. You keep refering to it in your posts as a seperate trade. EOD is a small function of a Combat Engineer. You know it, I know it........we are all inclusive. Unless it is an IED than it can and should be a Combat Engineer Task.

Chimo!

 

[McG]

Unless it is an IED than it can and should be a Combat Engineer Task.

I'd argue that anything which is in a grey area ("it might be an IED") must be treated as an IED.  These types of events are so common that the Fd Tps need some measure of responce.  I know the geek robot is not up to the challenge in most difficult terrain, but it is small enough to fit in the Recce's stores and provide something to approach and recce unknown devices.  If they turn out to be UXO, then the Recce can do his CMD thing.  If it turns out to be an IED, then we call the IED team.

At no point do we need to send an unqualified human into what might be the kill zone of a remote or victim initiated weapon.

 

[Nemesis]

Not once did I say that EOD was a seperate trade, or that I thought I was in a seperate trade.  It was my job over there, thats 90% of what I did.  I was refering to going from EOD, to specific engr tasks, and infantry. No diff than a hvy guy having to do a non hvy task, or Inf.

 

[Spr.Earl]

I have spent alot of time between working out of KAF and the PRT as EOD.  From what I have seen from the sections working out of the PRT and KAf, I think the ENGRs were very able to adapt from engrs to inftry, and back to engr when needed.  The few times I rode with a PL from the PRT (myself and the engr sect. comdr) I was able to play infantry, engr, EOD no problem.  However, I think that the engr sect that was in the PRT acted more like infantry, than engrs. 

It was a challange for me working with Clearance Divers being that they don't have a clue on "combat arms" when they come with us on tour.  It was almost like baby sitting them when it hit the fan.  I was more worried about the diver(s) safety than mine when we got involved in a TIC.  I will say that the diver I was teamed up with had is crap sorted, but the odd time I was paired up with someone else, it was challenging.

I see things changing.  Slowly.  I know my hvy eqpt. friends were very PO'd because of the crap equipment, and lack of it, for all the tasks they were given.  We def. need new hvy eqpt for them, and not the crap no name shiite either.

Aswell, I think we need to train like we fight.  didn't see any MTVE/TLAV over there....did you?

As for the mini robot with the Recce sgt.....why.  The Vangaurd ins't good/reliable outside a nice building. 

EOD/IEDD could use more/better equip...ie, bison, vanguard ect, and I think a IEDD/EOD mbr should be imbedded within a Sect. or avail to a sect on operations.  But that could open up a can of worms.

We need newer better equip. on operations, and train with the kit b4 we deploy.  I think the CBT Engrs from Norway have it rite, or close to perfect for pers. and section equipt. 

Ahh...I could go on, but I won't.  Sorry for the wondering of the subect.

In all, we need to do more training with the INF, so we all know what we all can do, and how long it takes, without skipping corners. 

Cheers.

Nem I ask; Is you a Sapper or a Powder Monkey (Ammo Tech)?
Reason I ask your quote "I think the ENGRs were very able to adapt from engrs to inftry"
As we would say " We" not " the"

As for your comment about the clearance divers I do know when,where and whom cleared them for the sand box and I do know they where tested.
From what I have heard the Navy did very well being what a 1,000 miles from the salt chuck.
I think you owe them an open apology.

 

[McG]

Nem I ask; Is you a Sapper or a Powder Monkey (Ammo Tech)?

He is an Engr.  There were no ammo tech on the EOD tms.

Yeah, the divers were trained to go to Afghanistan.  However, a few months of work-up (including the BTE) does not make one a combat arms soldier.  It did not help that there were times that the infantry assuemed that they had a bunch of Engr that could add to their combat power in an emergency, but in reality they had a bunch of sailors.

 

[Nemesis]

I don't owe anyone an appology.  You totally misread what I said.  Besides, were you there?  Did you work with them?  You ever take ground fire with a bunch of Divers?... NO...didn't think so. 
It was a challenge, they are Navy, not combat arms.  The CD that I worked with was great, if hid didn't know what to do, he would ask, and he was always ready to get it on, if need be.  Another CD was not so great.  Good at doing IEDD stuff, but abit iffy when we got shot at.

Thats it, thats all. 

 

[Spr.Earl]

I did miss read your last to a degree,the Navy went in as "Tech's" not  as "Combat Arm's".

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

This is my observation as a 031 trained Pioneer.
The Engineers both heavy equipt and combat are working their tails off.  From the badger (or whatever they are) operators to the bulldozer drivers to the guys sweeping for mines they all work extremely hard and well together.  Albet they have A LOT of help from the local construction people their intial foray into the field has seemingly been exhaustive.  They do everything a Eng does save for the bridges  (at least in my neck of the woods).  My only suggestion would be this.  Leave the clearing of fields of fire (trees, grape huts) to the pioneers (yeah I know they don't exist right now).  This realative easy task seemingly takes up a lot of their time (know one's fault, just the nature of the beast).  Not only that but the commander on the ground wouldn't have to wait for eng support which is in short supply and huge demand to get his fields of fire cleaned up.  There are FOB's out there that are downright ugly but they aren't priority so they don't get the need support.

And before anyone says anything about demolitions we sat at a FOB with 3 PNR's and all the necessary demolitions to get the job done.

 

[mmcteague]

During my short tour in Afghanistan I found as a sapper that we played infantry way more than engineers. We were usually attached to an infantry unit or coy and followed them on patrol. If any UXO's were found we would look at it but end up calling EOD to dispose of it. This could take some time depending on how far and how busy EOD was. I didn't understand why we couldn't dispose of it since we had the qualifications to do so as well waiting for EOD would delay the patrol. Mainly all other engineer tasks that I experienced was breaching a lot of doors explosively. I had been in a leger where a LAV hit a mine and what did us engineers do? We simply drove away and the guys in the vehicle had to wait until they decided which engineer section should get them out. I defiantly agree that the pioneers should be brought back so engineers can concentrate on more specific tasks rather than being infantry the entire time.

Mike

 

[McG]

During my short tour in Afghanistan I found as a sapper that we played infantry way more than engineers. We were usually attached to an infantry unit or coy and followed them on patrol. …  I defiantly agree that the pioneers should be brought back so engineers can concentrate on more specific tasks rather than being infantry the entire time.

Hmm.  It’s a little concerning to me that (it seems) you left the wire employed as infantry and then did not revert to your primary role when the need dictated.  Though I may have read too far into your example.  Is this how you saw things happen?

If any UXO's were found we would look at it but end up calling EOD to dispose of it. This could take some time depending on how far and how busy EOD was. I didn't understand why we couldn't dispose of it since we had the qualifications to do so as well waiting for EOD would delay the patrol.

I recall incidents of “it could be a UXO but it looks like a command IED, so I approached it like a mine.”  It could be that your CoC recognized that the enemy disguises IEDs as UXO, and there was a desire not to see guys killed because someone thought prodding was relevant to the situation.  So, did you have no freedom to act if you saw it was a UXO, knew that it was a UXO, and knew how to attack that specific type of UXO?

 

[PB]

I don't owe anyone an appology.  You totally misread what I said.  Besides, were you there?  Did you work with them?   You ever take ground fire with a bunch of Divers?... NO...didn't think so. 
It was a challenge, they are Navy, not combat arms.  The CD that I worked with was great, if hid didn't know what to do, he would ask, and he was always ready to get it on, if need be.  Another CD was not so great.  Good at doing IEDD stuff, but abit iffy when we got shot at.

Thats it, thats all. 

Actually I did, ....take that ground fire, with Divers, and we did pretty well. If you had one Diver that you thought "Iffy" in a gunfight, well I'm sure you can find one in every trade. He was still a Sailor, working outside the wire, getting in gunfights, taking IEDs apart, at the request of the Army. Divers have been on every recent combat tour, at the Army's request, and also assist training EOD ROTOs heading over. They usually blend in so well, no one realizes they are Navy, hence the issue you pointed out, the EOD team being tasked with combat missions. Regardless, in that dangerous line of work, we have, God Backing us, 100% pass rate so far. And on your tour, how many IED operators were Army, and how many Navy? I know the answer, no need to break op sec.
PS Thought you were going Ammo Tech?

 

[Priest]

PS Thought you were going Ammo Tech?

You have been misled my friend, This chap is not the guy who went ammo tech.  I know for a fact that the guy who did is as happy as a pig in S*** in his new job and no longer cares about the politics of what went on over there as an operator.

 

[PB]

PS Thought you were going Ammo Tech?

You have been misled my friend, This chap is not the guy who went ammo tech.  I know for a fact that the guy who did is as happy as a pig in S*** in his new job and no longer cares about the politics of what went on over there as an operator.

Then I stand corrected on the poster....if you are sure? ROTO 1??
Cheers, PB

 

[prarie chimo]

okay so here"s the deal.

TLAVS are here, and they suck.  We need choppers, that will make things a load better.  My experience is that every day was something different.  Dismounted patrols, all the cimic stuff, and more IED's than i ever care to see again.  That being said, the best advantage we have, is the fact that we carry a mini vanguard.  My section is able to operate anywhere, anytime, and that is the key to being an engineer buddy.  People always say, we never trained for this, well its simple really, There isnt enough time to learn it all before you go.  Trust the other chimo's on the ground, learn from them, and when it comes to the "sensitive stuff" if it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't.  You gotta be able to swear hand on heart that everything you had to do is done, and things are safe, because everybody's looking to you buds.

HAHAHA No pressure

CHIMO

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I don't envy you guess.  You guys are doing an awesome job over there.

 

[Sapper6]

Keep up the good work fellas!

Chimo!

S6

 

[GUNS]

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[GUNS]

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[GUNS]

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