Electronics for 280 replacement

[Navalsnpr]

Although we may not know when we will receive replacement ships for the current 280's, it is a safe bet that they will eventually come.

That being said, does anyone want to comment on the types of electronic equipment that should be considered for these ships? I'm looking at four main sections:

Communications
Radar
Sonar
Weapons (offencive and defencive)

 

[geo]

WELL...
for one thing, it all has to be compatible with the gear being used & developed by our major allies... US, UK, NATO.

 

[Cloud Cover]

If real NGS is going to be a role, some sort of proper counter-battery radar might be good.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

RADARS- should be 3D either Signaal SMART or SPY1D(air/fc)
            -Signaal APAR (air/surface)
            - navigation radar I have no real preference.
WEAPONS- 2 Helos
              -Gun at least 76mm ideally 5"/54
            - 4-6 20mm Oerlikons or 25mm Bushmasters for small boat defence.
              -2 Vulcan Phalanx (still not a big fan of RAM)
              -48-64 SM2 Standards (MK41)
              -8 Harpoon II SSM
            -MK46 Torpedoes (MK32 Mod 14)

 

[geo]

.... lots of spare parts

 

[NCRCrow]

lets have our helo's Penguin Equipped with an IR capability...nice close ASUW IR seeker...ooo-rah

 

[Melbatoast]

Well, sometime last year there was a suggestion in Warships International that Canada was looking at acquiring some of the stood-down US Ticonderogas, which wouldn't be too bad a solution and a lot faster than coming up with an indigenous design.  You've got your phased-array radar, two 5" guns, more VLS cells than you can shake a stick at, and room for a crazy ASW combat system, the AN/SQQ-89A(V)15.  Throw some Mk.54 LHT torps in (vertical launch ASROC !), and they'd probably be good value for money initially, although very fuel hungry (4x LM2500), and big.  With a decent degree of modernization, though, they'd probably not be as manpower intensive as you might think. 

 

[NCRCrow]

nah....lets build our own and create some jobs and innovative (intergrated) technology.

lets not have a harbour full of Fram II's, Garcia's and Knox classes and finally Tico's in 20 yrs time.

 

[Collin.t]

something similar to the new type 45 would be awsome http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/horizon/

 

[NavyShooter]

AIS Automatic Identification System receiver would be good to add.

For Sonar, let's have the new Active/Passive Towed array system.  I'm tired of our SONAROPS not being able to find subs under the layer.

NS

 

[NCRCrow]

AIS is already here

 

[Melbatoast]

AIS Automatic Identification System receiver would be good to add.

For Sonar, let's have the new Active/Passive Towed array system.  I'm tired of our SONAROPS not being able to find subs under the layer.

NS

We would never ever be able to use it, and CANTASS isn't a bad system at all when used correctly, instead of indifferently.  With fairly minor upgrades it could be much better, but the SQQ-89A(v)15 that I mentioned is the apex of surface ASW combat systems right now - it uses the SQS-53C hull mount sonar as a projector, and our very own SQR-19 array as the receiver.

But again, we would probably never be able to use it outside of very occasional, strictly controlled open ocean testing.  It kills animals, and normally the cutest (i.e. most controversial) ones. 

This LFA stuff is probably going to go away pretty quick anyway, as passive array technology has advanced immensely in a pretty short period of time.  According to open source material, SURTASS ships streaming dual TB-29D arrays have excellent detection against the most modern, submerged conventional subs.  Unfortunately they are extremely expensive arrays, and not really tactical, as such, due to size and fragility.  But, the Americans are supposedly testing monofilament arrays on subs that perform as well as hydrophone arrays but are obviously much easier to handle.  Imagine a bunch of those bundled together in a suface ship, which can easily handle big gear - wow.  Throw in a COTS type 32 (dare I hope for 64?)-bit acoustic signal processor and the sky is the limit.

 

[NavyShooter]

AIS is already here

I know.

I've installed it twice on the Montreal.  Great tool, unfortunately, we had to buy it ourselves.

(Installed twice because the Halifax stole our first one.)

NS

 

[Crown-Loyal]

all this talk about weaponary has my mind going. I saw on TV that Canada had purchased some Squall Torpedo's from russia and that putin himself signed the deal. Do we infact use these super fast torpedos?

*** I did a search after posting my question sorry about that ***

 

[who980]

COMMUNICATIONS -
The new ships will hopefully have a comms suite that isnt full of mission fits and jury rigged kit like the CPF's have.  (And Im sure the 280's to). 
Hopefully we can ditch the AN/UYK-507 series processors and maybe have a commerical off the shelf type system. (Intel Windows/Unix based?)
SHINCOM upgrade?  I know the Frigates are supposed to get this at FELEX.
Mini DAMA SATCOM system
SHF SATCOM system
Newer Handheld PRC's (Harris?)

 

[aesop081]

all this talk about weaponary has my mind going. I saw on TV that Canada had purchased some Squall Torpedo's from russia and that putin himself signed the deal. Do we infact use these super fast torpedos?

if you had payed attention to the rest of the TV show ( which i watched), Canada was the agent that purchased these torpedoes for the USN..........Of course thius is only "aledged" to have happen........regardless of what the CBC says

 

[Armymatters]

RADARS- should be 3D either Signaal SMART or SPY1D(air/fc)
            -Signaal APAR (air/surface)
            - navigation radar I have no real preference.
WEAPONS- 2 Helos
              -Gun at least 76mm ideally 5"/54
            - 4-6 20mm Oerlikons or 25mm Bushmasters for small boat defence.
              -2 Vulcan Phalanx (still not a big fan of RAM)
              -48-64 SM2 Standards (MK41)
              -8 Harpoon II SSM
            -MK46 Torpedoes (MK32 Mod 14)

I would definetely like to see that, with some modifications:
Crew requirements:
- Crew of 270, with space for an additional 50 personnel (e.g. flag officer, small troop detachment, etc). So, crew size a bit bigger than CPF.
Weapons:
- Capability for Tomahawk Land Attack Missile fitted (but no missiles installed), so that if needed in emergency, Tomahawk's can be loaded onboard and fired as needed
          - 2 MK41 VLS launchers, one on bow, one near hangar
- MK46 torpedoes replaced through fleet with Mk50 or MK54 LHT torpedo (either one of those torpedos can be fired out of current platforms and torpedo tubes)
- A RAM installation replacing one Phalanx
- The guns are fine as they are, so we are keeping them
Future Expansion:
- Additional deck space for future weapons suites to be intergrated (expandability and upgradability is a good idea for the future)
Countermeasures:
- SeaGnat decoy system self defense + RAM/CIWS
- 2 SLQ-25 Nixie torpedo decoys
Engines:
- CODAG
- 2 GE LM2500 gas turbines or 2 Rolls Royce MT-30 engines for high speed operations
- 2 MTU V20 diesel cruise engines
- High automation for engine room, reducing crew size
Sensors:
- CANTASS sonar suite
- Thales Sirius IRST long-range infrad surveillance and tracking system
- Mini-UAV launch capability
Communication:
- NATO Link 16 and Link 11/22 communications system
Displacement:
- 6000 tons (much bigger than Halifax, and Tribals)
Design:
- X form design (stealthy design) as in MEKO A family frigates
- Elmination of the funnel, instead using exhaust system found in MEKO A class frigates (They operate as stated: A reduction of about 75% on the ship's infrared signature has been achieved by elimination of the funnel, and instead hot exhaust gases are ducted through a horizontal system. Seawater is injected into the exhaust duct to cool the exhaust fumes, before being expelled just above the waterline.)
      - http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/meko/index.html
- Enclosed mast
- In short, design is very clean, and stealthy
Command and Control:
- Preferably Aegis combat system

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I would definetely like to see that, with some modifications:
Crew requirements:
- Crew of 270, with space for an additional 50 personnel (e.g. flag officer, small troop detachment, etc). So, crew size a bit bigger than CPF.
Weapons:
- Capability for Tomahawk Land Attack Missile fitted (but no missiles installed), so that if needed in emergency, Tomahawk's can be loaded onboard and fired as needed
          - 2 MK41 VLS launchers, one on bow, one near hangar
- MK46 torpedoes replaced through fleet with Mk50 or MK54 LHT torpedo (either one of those torpedos can be fired out of current platforms and torpedo tubes)
- A RAM installation replacing one Phalanx
- The guns are fine as they are, so we are keeping them
Future Expansion:
- Additional deck space for future weapons suites to be intergrated (expandability and upgradability is a good idea for the future)
Countermeasures:
- SeaGnat decoy system self defense + RAM/CIWS
- 2 SLQ-25 Nixie torpedo decoys
Engines:
- CODAG
- 2 GE LM2500 gas turbines or 2 Rolls Royce MT-30 engines for high speed operations
- 2 MTU V20 diesel cruise engines
- High automation for engine room, reducing crew size
Sensors:
- CANTASS sonar suite
- Thales Sirius IRST long-range infrad surveillance and tracking system
- Mini-UAV launch capability
Communication:
- NATO Link 16 and Link 11/22 communications system
Displacement:
- 6000 tons (much bigger than Halifax, and Tribals)
Design:
- X form design (stealthy design) as in MEKO A family frigates
- Elmination of the funnel, instead using exhaust system found in MEKO A class frigates (They operate as stated: A reduction of about 75% on the ship's infrared signature has been achieved by elimination of the funnel, and instead hot exhaust gases are ducted through a horizontal system. Seawater is injected into the exhaust duct to cool the exhaust fumes, before being expelled just above the waterline.)
       - http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/meko/index.html
- Enclosed mast
- In short, design is very clean, and stealthy
Command and Control:
- Preferably Aegis combat system

Gonna fit all of that and then some on a 6000 ton platform? Good freakin' luck. :

 

[aesop081]

Gonna fit all of that and then some on a 6000 ton platform? Good freakin' luck. :

- I dont see all that fitting into anything less than a 9000 ton and above hull ( cruiser sized.  Ticonderogas are 9600 tons-ish).  The Mk41 VLS alone takes up alot of deck space, let alone 2 of them

- Not a big fan of the Rolling airframe missle ( RAM) myself. 

- By the time this ship would be designed and ready for the yard..AEGIS will no longer be the cadillac of combat systems

:

 

[Armymatters]

Gonna fit all of that and then some on a 6000 ton platform? Good freakin' luck. :

Ok, 6000tons to start with. I am not a naval engineer, but I think it can be done. I am currently stareing at the specs of the Chinese Type 52C Lanzhou class air defence missile destroyers, which has a very similar setup as follows:
- 2 CIWS, one bow, one stern
- 8 6-cell VLS launcher for 48 HQ-9 missiles (equivalant to US Patriot or Standard)
- 2 4-cell YJ-62 anti-shipping missiles
- 1 100mm gun
- 2 triple torpedo tubes, firing Chinese copies of the MK46 torpedo
- stern hangar accommodates 1 or 2 Kamov Ka-28 (NATO codename: Helix) antisubmarine warfare helicopters
- CODOG, consisting of two Ukrainian gas turbines rated at 48,600hp and two Chinese copies of the MTU 20V diesels
- She also has a four-array multifunction phased array radar (PAR) similar to the U.S. AN/SPY-1 Aegis system
- The size as estimated is 6,500 tons (I have seen conflicting reports that the design is 7000 tons), with a length of 154m (approx), a beam of 17m, and a draft of 6m.  The destroyers have a crew of about 280, and she has a max speed of 29 knots (approx)
The ship is estimated to be more than a match to the Burke class destroyers on paper. In reality, I got no clue. A source (other than my copy of Jane's) is here:
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/surface/lanzhou052c.asp

Edit: If anyone wants to say I am wrong, so right ahead. Perhaps we can scale the thing down a bit by dropping a VLS launcher.