DND Details of New Afghanistan Kit

[buzgo]

The German UAV (name escapes me) seemed to be very effective. I saw lots of take from them and they seemed to have a high availability rate...

As stated, the Sperwer seemed to crash every time they used, and I recall seeing a KMNB HQ brief where they came out and said that they would not use the sperwer unless they had a very high value target... they knew it would potentially crash...

 

[Deleted member 585]

The German UAV (name escapes me) seemed to be very effective. I saw lots of take from them and they seemed to have a high availability rate...

As stated, the Sperwer seemed to crash every time they used, and I recall seeing a KMNB HQ brief where they came out and said that they would not use the sperwer unless they had a very high value target... they knew it would potentially crash...

Bang-for-buck-wise, a costly "accident prone drone" is best employed gathering high priority data if it's otherwise being being held in reserve for refit--but it has to make the flight to its mark, right?  However, the choice between (a) loss of a resource or, (b) loss of intelligence is one I'm under-qualified to make.  Here's to Oerlikon getting the wrinkles ironed out so we can fulfill our UAV commitment.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I didn't hear of any problems from any of the TUAV's used during BTE and there were 2 (possibly 3 kinds used).

 

[COBRA-6]

The German UAV (name escapes me) seemed to be very effective. I saw lots of take from them and they seemed to have a high availability rate...

LUNA, I've seen a fair amount of take, high quality, high availibility.

 

[Good2Golf]

Spewer behaved EXACTLY per its flight envelope.  It was clearly understood by all in the formal airworthiness chain that the system was at the upper/outer edge of the launch/op envelope.  While folks were chucking crap at it, it was out there when other systems were not available AT THE TIME...  Yes, systems came along afterwards, including an updated system, Sperwer ER, that operate with far greater reliability, but we got put into service what was available at the time, and it as statistically bang on with what folks in the know expected of it.  I think the minis will work quite fine, especially in the urban canyons where it's meant to best provide support to dismounted troops on patrol.

Cheers,
Duey

 

[grappa]

Sperwer reliability?

Well it could be better and Duey's post hits it right on the head. We went with what we got and we were well outside the published flight envelop. The height in Kabul coupled with the mountains and the wind effected the takeoff weight and the landing accuracy. That really is not a reliability problem, but more of using it beyond what it was supposed to do. Using it in the south now, should be better as the alt is not as bad. I don't think the mountains effect the wind as much. Could be wrong.

As to seeing crash all the time....we had about 120 or so missions and lost 2 completely, both on landings. 3 others had to go back to France for repair because we didn't have the expertise in theatre to fix them. Part of the contract. The German Luna lost a lot more then 2. I think they lost about 8 AV, so we are doing pretty good. Also compare that with the USAF who have lost almost half of the Predator fleet since its intro.

As for the Mini UAVs. They should be robust enough to handle the environment too. I would think the problems will be with the landings in high winds. That's about it.

Cheers

 

[Timberwolfe]

I don't see why we don't replace the Sea King with the Sea Hawk, inturn replace the Griffin with the Black Hawk and fire that POS Cormorant back to Italy and replace it with the Jay Hawk. The UH-60 is a proven platform, and the bonus of using the same airframe for multi rolls just makes sence for budget minded militarys like ours.

 

[genesis98]

I don't see why we don't replace the Sea King with the Sea Hawk, inturn replace the Griffin with the Black Hawk and fire that POS Cormorant back to Italy and replace it with the Jay Hawk. The UH-60 is a proven platform, and the bonus of using the same airframe for multi rolls just makes sence for budget minded militarys like ours.

Common you and I both know that idea is way too practical and makes too much sense to implement!

 

[George Wallace]

I don't see why we don't replace the Sea King with the Sea Hawk, inturn replace the Griffin with the Black Hawk and fire that POS Cormorant back to Italy and replace it with the Jay Hawk. The UH-60 is a proven platform, and the bonus of using the same airframe for multi rolls just makes sence for budget minded militarys like ours.

Money.  The Sea Hawk did not meet the specs for the job it is required to do.  The Black Hawk is also know to have problems.  One Helicopter can not do the job of all Helicopters.  It would be causing more problems than solutions, if we did.

 

[Zoomie]

Timberwolfe, kindly regale the forum of your direct first-hand knowledge of the CH-149 Cormorant... 

The Cormorant is one of the best helo platforms in the world - it is a tribute to the meshing of modern avionics, high tech composite fibres and aluminum.  It has been chosen to replace the venerable Sea King for the US President.

Teething problems WRT TRHH are being worked out at no cost to Canada or the tax-payer (warranty work).

The Jay Hawk cannot compare to the CH-149, both in size, range and interopability.

Stay in your lane - you are gravely in danger of being side-swiped.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I don't see why we don't replace the Sea King with the Sea Hawk, inturn replace the Griffin with the Black Hawk and fire that POS Cormorant back to Italy and replace it with the Jay Hawk. The UH-60 is a proven platform, and the bonus of using the same airframe for multi rolls just makes sence for budget minded militarys like ours.

Ahh crap.  All that time studying helicopters for last 25 years.  Wasted.  We should have just come to Army.ca and waited to be told what helo to buy.  I feel SO stupid... 

Timberwolfe, buddy.  Forgive me for having fun at your expense.  Every 6 months, someone will come here and make this exact post.  You can set your watch to it...

 

[Good2Golf]

Ahh crap.  All that time studying helicopters for last 25 years.  Wasted.  We should have just come to Army.ca and waited to be told what helo to buy.  I feel SO stupid... 

Timberwolfe, buddy.  Forgive me for having fun at your expense.  Every 6 months, someone will come here and make this exact post.  You can set your watch to it...

Sadly, SKT...those are 25 years of your life you'll never get back.


Timberwolfe, son...before you make some rash statements, perhaps a bit more research on your part is in order! 

Griffon to B-hawk will NEVER happen.  Trust me on this one...up until early 1992, the CFUTTH (CF Utility and Tactical Transport Helicopter) was [most likely] going to be a Blackhwak (also running in the short-lived competition were Puma/Cougar and NH-90) -- yup....Blackhawk right up until the day (for the record, 29 April 1992) that I flew Marcel Masse ( I was acting on a lawful order) to BHTC Mirabel to announce the purchase of 100 militarized Bell 412s.  The rest is, as most others on this site know, history...

BTW, less the poorly designed/produced tail-rotor half-hub, which DND is working with the OEM to address, the Cormorant is a pretty nice machine.  Unless you know something more than the guys with hundreds and thousands of hours in the cockpit, you should perhaps heed the advice to go back and do some research before you "go off"...

Unless your statement had been something caveatted with an emotional, "gosh, seeing you guys have to operate some of these aircraft with such significant maintenance or operational limitations makes me wonder if we shouldn't just pack in these airframes and procure something with proven performance, like the Blackhawk family of helicopters, for example...", you risk coming across as someone with a bad case of RCIS (rectal-cranial insertion syndrome).

Cheers,
Duey

 

[lawandorder]

Alright I don't know much about helicopters or aircraft, in or out of the CF.  I like riding in the Griffon for the LCF, cause its like the huey, and it has a huge LCF from movies.  I know, I know, LCF isn't always important.

I can see why you want to replace the Sea King, and even the Griffon,  But what is wrong with the Commorant.  This isn't a question in defense of it, I actually just don't know whats wrong with it where it needs to be replaced.  If you guys could let me know that would be great.

 

[geo]

EH101s aka Cormorant = been having problems with their rotors.
stress cracks that the manufacturer has not been able to resolve...

you can conduct a search on this site for the EH101 for more on the helicopter

 

[Daidalous]

Nice new sea containers.  About time we got some new ones and send the old long style to the NSE's so they can stop renting them

 

[CdnArtyWife]

Re: Mini UAVs, I think there is a member here who could give a good perspective on their use and reliability in Afghanistan.

I would state what I know, but I am just a wife of someone who works closely with them, and the guys going overseas with them. I know what I say would only be hearsay and I would rather the info come from a horse's mouth, so to speak. Though, I am really interested to hear what STA_Gunner would have to say about them...my source of info could have a twinge of bias to it.

I was finding the debate interesting, and was hoping someone with some hands-on experience with Mini UAVs could chime in.

If I have overstepped here, I apologize.