Divining the right role, capabilities, structure, and Regimental System for Canada's Army Reserves

[MilEME09]

So I was talking to a member of the British territorial army the other day who is attached to my unit, the Brits expect their reservists to be available to deployed every 5 years unless they are in a position deemed operationally necessary. You get a brown envelope in the mail saying you are now called to active duty, and to report to X on date Y and thats it. Maybe a similar system could work for our reserves?

 

[runormal]

So I was talking to a member of the British territorial army the other day who is attached to my unit, the Brits expect their reservists to be available to deployed every 5 years unless they are in a position deemed operationally necessary. You get a brown envelope in the mail saying you are now called to active duty, and to report to X on date Y and thats it. Maybe a similar system could work for our reserves?

Is a system like this necessary? Or would it cause senior members to release to not hinder their primary source of income? I know that there are lots of reservists that want to deploy but haven't had any opportunities to do so. I also know of a few reservists who delayed releasing because JT said "Africa".

However does this also mean that I can get called up to work 6 months in Wainwright as a rad op of HQ and Sigs?

I could see my employer be more supportive of a tour vice 6-12 of months of class "C" in Canada.

the Brits expect their reservists to be available to deployed every 5 years unless they are in a position deemed operationally necessary.

Who determines this? Do you know if there is any recourse available if the army/member disagree on operationally necessary. Could the member just release if called up?


I'll be honest I personally like the system as is, it has come up several times at my day job "so your career in the reserves" "explain to me your long term plan with army" "so how does the reserves work". It is nice to be able to say "well the next course is PLQ, but that is 2 months long so we need to wait and see when it is a good time for me personally, the organization and the army to go on PLQ and for tours not everyone got to go who wanted to go, it is all voluntarily".

Instead of saying "I could be called up at anytime for an undetermined amount of time in the next few years especially given the uncertainty of whether anything comes up regarding "Africa", so don't assign me anything critical or important because I might have to leave in 30 days and while we are at it don't promote me either. "

I could of deployed if something came up while I was in University, but that window has come and gone. I'm now at my first entry level job and all of my focus is into that so that I can get promoted or at least solidify my position/experience.  So now the army has invested how ever many thousands of dollars into me. Is it better to keep me around even though I'll likely never deploy but I can help train/mentor the next group that might?

As much as I bitch and complain I don't see me releasing anytime soon. The reserves has been an excellent experience and it really mixes up my 9-5 work grind.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

If Canada really needs Reservists that bad...they'll be put on active duty.  Anyone who thinks the GoC doesn't have the power and authority to do that doesn't understand the fine print in the PRES TOSs, IMO.

 

[mariomike]

So I was talking to a member of the British territorial army the other day who is attached to my unit, the Brits expect their reservists to be available to deployed every 5 years unless they are in a position deemed operationally necessary. You get a brown envelope in the mail saying you are now called to active duty, and to report to X on date Y and thats it. Maybe a similar system could work for our reserves?

Deployed for how long?

My former employer "supports employees who want to participate in the military reserve force and allows them to take a paid leave of absence to fulfill their reserve duties."

Employees are paid their regular pay provided they submit any compensation received for military service to the employer, unless this compensation is paid for days they are not scheduled to work.

All benefits continue during the leave.

An employee's service, vacation entitlement, seniority, pension etc. continue to accumulate during their military leave.

But, that is only for two weeks per year.

There is also the question of will the military compensate the employer?

The employer will have to call in overtime to cover the employee's shifts during her/his military leave.
That's 40-hours per week at time and a half.

For more on this discussion,

Reservists Job Protection Superthread 
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:rjfX2xvg26EJ:https://milnet.ca/forums/index.php%3Ftopic%3D2552.0+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca
20 pages.

 

[YZT580]

Why is it that the law mandates employers to grant time off for maternity and paternity leave with total job protection but the same benefits are not ascribed to citizens in the reserve? 

 

[mariomike]

Why is it that the law mandates employers to grant time off for maternity and paternity leave with total job protection but the same benefits are not ascribed to citizens in the reserve?

They did where I used to work, "Military Leave:
Leave of absence shall be granted to employees to serve in the Armed Forces during hostilities or during a time of war as declared by the Government of Canada. Seniority will accumulate during such leave."

That would include non-reservist employees who volunteer for active service, or get drafted, during a time of war as declared by the Government of Canada.

 

[daftandbarmy]

So I was talking to a member of the British territorial army the other day who is attached to my unit, the Brits expect their reservists to be available to deployed every 5 years unless they are in a position deemed operationally necessary. You get a brown envelope in the mail saying you are now called to active duty, and to report to X on date Y and thats it. Maybe a similar system could work for our reserves?

They still can not compel them, legally, to deploy.

 

[Kirkhill]

And that is why tiered terms of service are appropriate:

Those available for domestic crises on a voluntary basis - unpaid
Those available for call-out - on a stipendiary basis (they get paid as long as they are available - at a reduced rate - then get paid at regular rates when activated).
Those available for domestic service - full time
Those available for expeditionary service - full time.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

We need the full-timers to be deployable.  When CJOC comes callin', we have enough people who haul out their Yellow Card...

 

[MilEME09]

eployed for how long?

My former employer "supports employees who want to participate in the military reserve force and allows them to take a paid leave of absence to fulfill their reserve duties."

Employees are paid their regular pay provided they submit any compensation received for military service to the employer, unless this compensation is paid for days they are not scheduled to work.

All benefits continue during the leave.

An employee's service, vacation entitlement, seniority, pension etc. continue to accumulate during their military leave.

But, that is only for two weeks per year.

There is also the question of will the military compensate the employer?

The employer will have to call in overtime to cover the employee's shifts during her/his military leave.
That's 40-hours per week at time and a half.

Upto 6 months was what he told me, not a long deployment at all, and yes to adopt such a plan we would need better job protection rules.

They still can not compel them, legally, to deploy.

Apparently due to Afghanistan, and Iraq more prominently, they could because of an operational requirement to fill positions that certain individuals had the required skill set for.

We need the full-timers to be deployable.  When CJOC comes callin', we have enough people who haul out their Yellow Card...

The fact we need over 30% PRes augmentation just to sustain the 2500 person battlegroups of Afghanistan shows we have a people problem, out of three infantry regiments you are telling me we cant sustain 1 battlegroup continuously? that should of been a red flag for the army.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The fact we need over 30% PRes augmentation just to sustain the 2500 person battlegroups of Afghanistan shows we have a people problem, out of three infantry regiments you are telling me we cant sustain 1 battlegroup continuously? that should of been a red flag for the army Canadian government and citizens.

FTFY...I'm confident the ECS's are well aware of the "PML to TES" realities in the CAF.  :nod:

If there is a shortage in Reg Force people for ops, then the focus should be on building the Reg Force first, then ways to augment with PRES second.  Money and effort has to be prioritized; in a country with a military and political and funding realities that are the norm for Canada we need to focus on the folks who go out the door regularly and with little to no time to train up for the mission.  That, 9.5 times out of 10, is our Reg Force.

 

[dapaterson]

Little to no time to train up?  I call shenanigans.  There is a limited subset of tasks like that.  Most we could (and should) do a better job of planning for.  You'd think that with around 5000 majors and lcols in the Reg F that we could plan in a timely and coherent manner...

 

[MilEME09]

Little to no time to train up?  I call shenanigans.  There is a limited subset of tasks like that.  Most we could (and should) do a better job of planning for.  You'd think that with around 5000 majors and lcols in the Reg F that we could plan in a timely and coherent manner...

Well when you have 5000+ senior ranks at NDHQ, all with different views on how things should be done, nothing gets done.

 

[Flavus101]

Thinning the herd of NDHQ and starting to put more trust at the Unit level leadership is where things need to go.

I understand that there has to be some standardization. I come from a reserve context, however I hear the same complaints from reg force folks at times. To use an officer example. Manpower gets so low that an OC who on paper is commanding a Coy is really commanding a Pl plus organization. The OC then gradually starts to creep down and gets involved with activities that should be managed at the Pl level as there is less on his plate. From what I see that creep goes up much further than just sub-unit level.

The other issue is what do we do with a Capt who deserves a promotion but there are no command positions available? It seems that our solution is to create another staff position. This probably has more to do with the "Bloated HQ's" thread.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The fact we need over 30% PRes augmentation just to sustain the 2500 person battlegroups of Afghanistan shows we have a people problem, out of three infantry regiments you are telling me we cant sustain 1 battlegroup continuously? that should of been a red flag for the army.

That percentage was mandated and I would question if was just reserves or augmentees, most of whom were reg force.  We had tons'o'people who wanted Afghan deployments but never lucked out. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Little to no time to train up?  I call shenanigans.

For some, yes, for others, no.  Aircew are one example of folks who go out the door on various missions with little to no time to prep;  hence our requirement to stay current on a daily basis.  My last DAG took me 1.5 days and only that long because I had to do a FORCE test.  If not for that, I'd have been done in a day or less, because all my DRTSET/IBTS stuff and other currencies are up to date, day to day to day.  It would be extremely hard to have a Reservist in my trade (or any trade) out the door that quick.  Heck, I doubt they could sort out the Cl C contract that quickly alone.

AFAIK, like our high readiness posturing, the Army has high readiness units, so does the Navy along with the RDS on each coast, etc.

Wasn't Haiti a 'quick' deployment?  Libya was very quick for some.  Impact as well.

There is a limited subset of tasks like that.  Most we could (and should) do a better job of planning for.  You'd think that with around 5000 majors and lcols in the Reg F that we could plan in a timely and coherent manner...

You'd think.  :nod:

 

[RCPalmer]

For some, yes, for others, no.  Aircew are one example of folks who go out the door on various missions with little to no time to prep;  hence our requirement to stay current on a daily basis.  My last DAG took me 1.5 days and only that long because I had to do a FORCE test.  If not for that, I'd have been done in a day or less, because all my DRTSET/IBTS stuff and other currencies are up to date, day to day to day.  It would be extremely hard to have a Reservist in my trade (or any trade) out the door that quick.  Heck, I doubt they could sort out the Cl C contract that quickly alone.

AFAIK, like our high readiness posturing, the Army has high readiness units, so does the Navy along with the RDS on each coast, etc.

Wasn't Haiti a 'quick' deployment?  Libya was very quick for some.  Impact as well.

You'd think.  :nod:

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that high readiness tasks (there are some exceptions such as TBGs for DOMOPS) are principally the domain of the Regular Force.

That said, even reservists can be pushed out the door fairly quickly (within a day or two), especially for DOMOPS. WRT Class C contracts, the issue is more about securing the financial authority as it is held at a fairly high level.  Once the decision is made to put reservists on Class C, it can be done fairly quickly. 

WRT IBTS, (and I can only speak to the Army here), I would offer that while the RegF does it better than the PRes overall, there are gaps all over the place.  Apart from high readiness units, the bulk of the Army (RegF or PRes) isn't ready for "cold start" immediate expeditionary operations at the individual level to say nothing of the collective training validations required to deploy a formed body of any size. 

However, the big personnel bill comes with sustaining an operation over time, and that implies a window to train up the follow on forces. Based on that assumption, options become available to employ a mix of full and part time personnel. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

This is why the Reg Force needs to maintain high(er) readiness units, and PRes needs to maintain that 'baseline skillset' (not saying IBTS is the *Gold* Standard; there are many things that could be done to improve it Reg or Res force).  SHTF, deployment comes up...the HR folks go.  Reg Force *next ROTO* folks start trg and DAGing...assessments are done, decision made to augment with PRES folks...they start trg and DAGing.  The PRes folks who want to deploy but not be Reg Force...well, they have to keep their fitness, medical, admin, etc up to snuff so when the call comes, they are the ones who can be *wheels in the well* the quickest.

I know there is a lot of talk about Reservists ''being bored with doing the same thing over and over, year after year" but I'll state again we have the same thing in the Reg Force too.  But...we get paid to be ready to do job X in unit Y whether its Reg or Res.  End of the day, that is what Joe and Jane Taxpayer are forking over tax dollars for us to be able to do. 

Leadership, right down to the Jnr NCO level, is key to any unit being able to get out the door ASAP when the call comes.  Reg, or Res.

 

[daftandbarmy]

This is why the Reg Force needs to maintain high(er) readiness units, and PRes needs to maintain that 'baseline skillset' (not saying IBTS is the *Gold* Standard; there are many things that could be done to improve it Reg or Res force).  SHTF, deployment comes up...the HR folks go.  Reg Force *next ROTO* folks start trg and DAGing...assessments are done, decision made to augment with PRES folks...they start trg and DAGing.  The PRes folks who want to deploy but not be Reg Force...well, they have to keep their fitness, medical, admin, etc up to snuff so when the call comes, they are the ones who can be *wheels in the well* the quickest.

I know there is a lot of talk about Reservists ''being bored with doing the same thing over and over, year after year" but I'll state again we have the same thing in the Reg Force too.  But...we get paid to be ready to do job X in unit Y whether its Reg or Res.  End of the day, that is what Joe and Jane Taxpayer are forking over tax dollars for us to be able to do. 

Leadership, right down to the Jnr NCO level, is key to any unit being able to get out the door ASAP when the call comes.  Reg, or Res.

So, when 'leadership' at the highest levels promises all kinds of awesome training and everyone is pumped then, at the last minute, it's all cancelled because Bde has blown the budget and we can't go on weekend exercises anymore and have to cut parade nights down to 2 per month, then what?

 

[MilEME09]

Im one of those people that complain about the training. However I get it that the army is repetative in nature. What grinds my gears is when the chain of command does not even try to make training engaging or interesting. As well as when we go on EX and the most jr person there has 3 years at the unit and they treat us all like we have never seem a hide before.

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