Discipline, and the NCO My latest story....

[17thRecceSgt]

True story, happened today.

A few weeks ago, there was an illegally parked car at the gym (right in front of a fire hydrant).  I left a note on the windshield which amounted to "this is your freebie, this is not a parking spot, next time I see it here the MPs will be called."  Left my rank, name, work local.  Figure if it is someone higher rank, well, atleast I can roast them alittle for not playing buy the rules if I have a head left...

The car is one of the typical pimped-out Honda's alot of troopies drive these days...you know the kind.

Today, arrive at Stadacona Gym at 1515 for PT.  Same car, in same spot, with open parking spots that are actually for the gym.

Walk in, ask front desk staff if in fact it is a parking spot (no).  Ask them to call the MPs to have car ticketed.

Go back 15 minutes later.  PSP staff tell me "we couldn't get thru to them".  Sure.

Civie then tells me "I shouldn't worry about it".  I tell her, in the military, we don't decide which rules to follow and which ones not to, and when you don't follow them, and your caught, then you take your lumps.  Nicely.

I call MPs.  Ask for a car to be dispatched to sort this character out.  Dispatcher asks for license plate, so I go to get it...car is gone.  Ok, so you got away this time.  My head says to me "never pass a fault".  Especially after you already got your freebie.  And are now NOT being smart about being stupid.  This gets entered into the MPs log thankfully.

PT ends at 1700 (the gym closed then).  Drive around Snr NCO/Officers quarters.  No car.  A BLock (Jnr NCO on Stad).  No car.  Drive to Windsor Park Jnr NCOs shack.  Bingo.  Car is there.

Leave a note on windshield, basically saying "you were illegally parked.  you shall call me at the number below, or I will have the MPs /ask the MPs to come and find you.  Got it?  Sign the note, leave my work duty cell number (its on me 24/7).

Get call from MPs.  They need to talk to me.  Tell them "come on over!".

MPs show up.  This little POS puts a "i feel threathened" complaint in on me ( :rofl to get around the fact he is in crapola.  MPs have to investigate.  I got read the Cautionary Statement, the whole deal.

The MPs I must say, were nothing but 101% professional, and told me straight up, they thought his complaint was horseshite.  BUT they also pointed out they HAVE to follow it up, and file a report, which will go to my CO (I promptly gave them his name and local).

They advised me that, being a NCO, or a Snr NCO is not like it used to be (one of the MPs was former combat arms, Arty, can't remember his name now doh!).  I explained from my perspective, it was a discplinary issue (not obeying orders) as much as an MP issue, and that I was giving the kid a break by dealing with it at my level, rather than putting it thru the MPs and the Base Chief.  They agreed totally.  He should have called and left it at that.  He didn't.  SO...now all this crap.  I am not worried.  I was sorting out a subordinate, and handling it at the lowest level.  I could have walked the 50 feet from his car to the MP Guardhouse and let them have at the little prick.  I chose not to.

It leaves me here wondering what happened to the times when, if you handled something at your level, firmly and fairly, no abuse of anything, that was the way to do the business. 

Again, the MPs were bang-on, and when they left, they said "We wish there was more Sgt's like you around Halifax, everyone around here passes the buck and we get to deal with the shite" type thing.  Good to hear.  A crop of weak, "turn away from discipline issues" Snr NCOs.  Great.  What the hell happened to "us" (read NCOs)???

I looked at the younger MP, and told him on his way out the door...."as an NCO, you should never pass a fault".  I wonder if he knew what I meant...the older one did cause he sorta chuckled...

Someone, please, tell me that its not like this all over...that Pet and Edmonton, Gagetown....that these places still function with the NCO being the first and fairest and effective point in the discipline system... :

 

[Sig_Des]

Just goes to show...no good deed goes unpunished.

Makes me sick when I see peers call harrassment to get out of trouble. people just don't want to take their taps on the wrist.

 

[paracowboy]

Someone, please, tell me that its not like this all over...that Pet and Edmonton, Gagetown....that these places still function with the NCO being the first and fairest and effective point in the discipline system...

only when you're dealing with Old School types.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

well Paracowboy, thats too bad.  I am not even "old school" for christ sakes....17 years is not "old school" to me...hasn't changed that much has it??

:

I guess I should have left him a cookie, and then gave MY license plate # to the MPs, in his place, to make him more comfy and then called for a CSD Team.

 

[Koenigsegg]

I think he would have just taken the cookie and ran...
I would, free cookies man!

That is a terrible situation, makes me wonder how many people have morals, and ethics nowadays.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

I think he would have just taken the cookie and ran...
I would, free cookies man!

That is a terrible situation, makes me wonder how many people have morals, and ethics nowadays.

What about "self-discipline".  The ability to make the choice to do the right thing, or the wrong thing.

4 types of discipline in the military.  Imposed...self...habits...and group.  Seems like, where I am...group seems to rule, and not in a good way.

Bah.  HUMBUG.

 

[Haggis]

only when you're dealing with Old School types.

Damn straight.  You didn't get freebies back in the day.  Park where you shouldn't and you'll be a loooong time looking for your wheels.

You shoulda had him towed first time.  He'd've probably reported his rice rocket stolen, cops'd send him to impound to find his toy and $200 or so later, he wouldn't do it again.

 

[HItorMiss]

Mud you did the right thing, and the very Professional thing. I know around my Unit for ever NCO that would pass the buck there are dozens more that work for and discipline their troops.

I think perhaps you have run a foul of a waste of tax payers money and as such perhaps your CO calling his CO to explain to him why one of his troops felt the need to call in a Harassment complaint on one of your CO's NCO's for doing his job might well get this troops sorted...or you could always find his immediate supervisor and do it yourself.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Haggis.

They don't tow here I don't think...you need the royal blessing to "enforce rules" it seems in Halifax.

I DO remember the opening of the CANEX at Stad when the Base Cmdr's c/s was parked in a No Parking zone and I mentioned to his LS driver that his c/s was "parked in a manner contrary to Base policy".  He looked like a fish outta water.  Poor kid.

I didn't pursue THAT one farther.  BUT...if the highest of high's don't adhere...how the fluk do you force it on down?????????

"Lead By Example"

 

[Haggis]

Mud:  HoM has a good suggestion.  See your RSM first thing.  Go with him to see 9er and cut the little prick off at the pass.

If it can't be towed, can it be pushed?  ;D

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Mud you did the right thing, and the very Professional thing. I know around my Unit for ever NCO that would pass the buck there are dozens more that work for and discipline their troops.

I think perhaps you have run a foul of a waste of tax payers money and as such perhaps your CO calling his CO to explain to him why one of his troops felt the need to call in a Harassment complaint on one of your CO's NCO's for doing his job might well get this troops sorted...or you could always find his immediate supervisor and do it yourself.

HoM

Appreciate the "pat on the back".  I was brought up in the "NCO Net" world...and if I knew this kid's PO or whatever, I would have send the courtesy call but...

Best thing?  This "report" from the MPs will go to my CO and his CO. 

Bring it on I say.  I just did my duty.  Nothing more..nothing less.  I did what the freakin' people of Canada pay my salary for...so it was a Sunday.  SO what.

Ok, wait.  I know.  Let's start letting the troopies start deciding what rules they follow...and what ones they don't.

Should make for a GREAT Forces.  Cause they know when to say "ok, this one is important" and "this one we can blow off".

not on!

I will say again though...the MPs were +1.  Professional.  They were in our home (Hot Lips is out for the night at a friends place) and they were just...well...bang on.  Bravo Zulu to those 2 guys.  I was impressed.

I am more concerned about the NCOs that deal with this and then go totally gun-shy.  And "turn their eyes".

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Mud:  HoM has a good suggestion.  See your RSM first thing.  Go with him to see 9er and cut the little prick off at the pass.

If it can't be towed, can it be pushed?  ;D

I agree (already typed up my Memo), my HQ SM is the Bde Superintendant Clerk  :-\ BUT our Bde RSM is a 30 year cop in NS.  He likes my style ( or so he says ).  I don't think I have a style, and if I do, it is the work/influence of the MANY good Snr NCOs and WO's that I have had the PRIVILEGE of working under in 17 years.  That started in Cornwallis in '89, when one of our MCpl's ( a very switched-on PPCLI) told us "you should study the staff and start picking up their good points 'cause some of you will be back here in a few years doin' what I am doin'...start learnin' NOW".  I did. 

I think, in some locations/Base's...we are off the rails....

 

[orange.paint]

Somehow I think his little harassment complaint is going to be an extra thing to fry him for everything.You obviously gave him multiple chances,and then HE complains?

your set.
he's fried.

Armoured hits harder.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Armoured hits harder.

track-mash

Whats up with this "Honda-hip-hop" bunch....

I for one will not bow down...cry harassment...abuse..."threathened".  Now you made the MPs action a report that is goin' to your CO...and your Coxswain ( RSM in the Army).  Bring it on.  Know your role.

 

[Nemo888]

Keep us informed what happens next.

 

[GO!!!]

It seems I am alone in my opinion of this.

To me, this seems to bear striking similarities to another Sgt on this site who made it his business (or said he would) to lecture PMQ residents about the effectiveness of their lawn care regimes if they did'nt meet his fancy.

So, you did'nt like his parking job, and drove around the base looking for him. Your little statement about how it could have been someone of a higher rank does'nt hold much water - you know what type of vehicle the younger guys drive, and you zeroed in on it later in the post.

When he deprived you of the oportunity to berate him in person, and called you on stalking him around the base, you called the MPs, who showed their "professionalism" by telling you that the accusations against you were "horseshyte" in the pursuance of their investigation. Professional indeed.

IMHO, this has little to do with discipline, and alot to do with someone who loves to give out a good jacking - whether it is to someone "in their lane" or not.

Never pass a fault? If you have ever driven even 5km over the speed limit on your way into the base, turn yourself in tomorrow, otherwise, find a hobby to kill your evidently ample leisure time.

If you had been looking to rectify this situation, to correct the deficiency, you would have called the MPs yourself the first time.

Discipline and professionalism have always meant to me that there are certain people, trained in certain ways, who have the tools and authority to deal with situations. Discipline is knowing where the bounds of your authority lie, and professionalism is staying on the high ground that preserves that same authority.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

It seems I am alone in my opinion of this.

I always thought driving around looking for someone you don't know was called 'stalking'...

To me, this seems to bear striking similarities to another Sgt on this site who made it his business (or said he would) to lecture PMQ residents about the effectiveness of their lawn care regimes if they did'nt meet his fancy.

So, you did'nt like his parking job, and drove around the base looking for him. Your little statement about how it could have been someone of a higher rank does'nt hold much water - you know what type of vehicle the younger guys drive, and you zeroed in on it later in the post.

When he deprived you of the oportunity to berate him in person, and called you on stalking him around the base, you called the MPs, who showed their "professionalism" by telling you that the accusations against you were "horseshyte" in the pursuance of their investigation. Professional indeed.

I suspect that if one is being humoured by the MPs, the point from their perspective is not to let the individual being humoured know he is only being humoured...

IMHO, this has little to do with discipline, and alot to do with someone who loves to give out a good jacking - whether it is to someone "in their lane" or not.

Never pass a fault? If you have ever driven even 5km over the speed limit on your way into the base, turn yourself in tomorrow, otherwise, find a hobby to kill your evidently ample leisure time.

If you had been looking to rectify this situation, to correct the deficiency, you would have called the MPs yourself the first time.

Discipline and professionalism have always meant to me that there are certain people, trained in certain ways, who have the tools and authority to deal with situations. Discipline is knowing where the bounds of your authority lie, and professionalism is staying on the high ground that preserves that same authority.

Well stated.

At our armoury a few weeks back, I noted with disgust that the two offices I share rarely have the trash taken out. Civvie cleaners don't come in to empty the wastebaskets.  So I have a full one, took it out onto the parade square, and went to empty it into a large garbage can. The garbages on the parade square do get emptied by the civvies since they are not behind closed doors. Was halfway through the night, garbage was empty, why not. It was 20 steps from my office.

A sergeant from our sister regiment (that's sister as in Ugly Sister) decides he doesn't like the look of this, starts asking me what I'm doing, "why don't you just take it to the dumpster out back, would be a lot easier." He appeared somewhat undertasked at the moment.

Let's see....it's raining out, the back doors of the armoury are locked and alarmed, meaning I'd have to walk all the way around the building in the rain, to dump a little wastebasket out instead of just putting it in the garbage 20 steps from my door.

I couldn't be bothered to explain any of it. Nor could I be bothered to take it outside; I took it back to the office, and it sat there for a week or two - apparently no one else was too bothered by it either.

To his credit, the sergeant didn't come on the internet to stroke his own ego afterwards...

If this sounds like an incredibly petty story that there was no point in sharing...I'm guessing this is the right thread for it?

 

[Dissident]

What hapened to "Yes Sgt, No Sgt"?

Maybe Mud recce man is on a power trip, maybe not. Fact remains, he is right.

His approach might not be to your liking, but that is to his leadership to sort out. Him being a Sgt, I would tend to give him more leaway. I might or might not aggree with his approach, but everyone has his style.

And Mud reccee man, by posting out here, you are opening yourself to criticism. If you are looking for validation or advice on the subject, NCO's on you CFB would be a way better approach.

My $0.02

 

[p_imbeault]

I was under the impression this was just a rant, we all ahev stuff that irks us, its nice to have a place to vent.  ???

 

[17thRecceSgt]

It seems I am alone in my opinion of this.

To me, this seems to bear striking similarities to another Sgt on this site who made it his business (or said he would) to lecture PMQ residents about the effectiveness of their lawn care regimes if they did'nt meet his fancy.

So, you did'nt like his parking job, and drove around the base looking for him. Your little statement about how it could have been someone of a higher rank does'nt hold much water - you know what type of vehicle the younger guys drive, and you zeroed in on it later in the post.

When he deprived you of the oportunity to berate him in person, and called you on stalking him around the base, you called the MPs, who showed their "professionalism" by telling you that the accusations against you were "horseshyte" in the pursuance of their investigation. Professional indeed.

IMHO, this has little to do with discipline, and alot to do with someone who loves to give out a good jacking - whether it is to someone "in their lane" or not.

Never pass a fault? If you have ever driven even 5km over the speed limit on your way into the base, turn yourself in tomorrow, otherwise, find a hobby to kill your evidently ample leisure time.

If you had been looking to rectify this situation, to correct the deficiency, you would have called the MPs yourself the first time.

Discipline and professionalism have always meant to me that there are certain people, trained in certain ways, who have the tools and authority to deal with situations. Discipline is knowing where the bounds of your authority lie, and professionalism is staying on the high ground that preserves that same authority.

Go!!!...usually your posts are spot-on.  This time...

I don't give a shite about what happened with Sgt Bozo in the PMQ area where you are.

Where do YOU...draw the line with your troops of the rules they HAVE to follow and the ones they DON'T have to follow.