Days Gone By
- Thread starter 3rd Herd
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Ah the good old days.... ;D
When I was in cadets in the 70s, our corps was affiliated with a reg force arty regt, and for annual inspection, we used to have our "parent" unit train a gun crew on a 105mm. During annual inspection we would carry out a full gun drill in the field behind the school where the corps was lodged, with our reg force friends manning a battery CP so that we (the cadets) could give our parents a demo of a gun line during a fire mission, complete with adjustments, re-targetting the gun and the firing of a couple of blank rounds . Good times, good times.
When I was in cadets in the 70s, our corps was affiliated with a reg force arty regt, and for annual inspection, we used to have our "parent" unit train a gun crew on a 105mm. During annual inspection we would carry out a full gun drill in the field behind the school where the corps was lodged, with our reg force friends manning a battery CP so that we (the cadets) could give our parents a demo of a gun line during a fire mission, complete with adjustments, re-targetting the gun and the firing of a couple of blank rounds . Good times, good times.
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Ya I remember those days too. Our parent unit used to always take us out on ex with them as most of our cadets wern't falldowns. I remember being issued an FN and got to fire the SMG/C2.
We were treated as troops as long as we pulled our weight. Shame those days are long gone, but seeing some of the cadets running around these days, im glad those days are over. Not painting all cadets with the same brush but there's a big difference in attitude/maturity level these days.
We were treated as troops as long as we pulled our weight. Shame those days are long gone, but seeing some of the cadets running around these days, im glad those days are over. Not painting all cadets with the same brush but there's a big difference in attitude/maturity level these days.
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Nice pictures 3rd!
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MP 811 said:
Which is the chicken and which is the egg, though?
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Awesome pics 3rd.
I was cleaning out the Supply Closet in the armouries and unearthed quite a few pictures from the olden days, including one when the situation was cadets and OD instead of cadets and CADPAT. ;D
I really think that a lot of what is put down to cadets not having the maturity is the fact that they aren't being given enough to occupy their time. Sure it may be easy to argue that there are plenty of PO's to teach, but being both one of the learners, and now one of the instructors, it is easier to say this than maintain the cadets attention while doing this.
I'm not trying to stir the pot here, but I think cadets would be a lot more mature if they were given things to be responsible for and given role models to look up to by having soldiers instructing the cadets and showing them how to do things. I've been to a cadet garrison exercise and the resulting display looked more like a rag-tag militia than a uniformed group of cadets.
The issue is not entirely systemic. Although the program has its shortcomings - a lot of the end result is the dedication of the officers in charge. Devoted officers who not only find ways to keep their cadets interested by making the effort be it just by themselves or by bringing in support from affiliated units, but also by fostering the leadership of the senior cadets are what makes or breaks a cadet corps.
Wow, didn't expect that out of some pictures.
If I can still find any of the old pictures I'll scan em and post em up.
I was cleaning out the Supply Closet in the armouries and unearthed quite a few pictures from the olden days, including one when the situation was cadets and OD instead of cadets and CADPAT. ;D
I really think that a lot of what is put down to cadets not having the maturity is the fact that they aren't being given enough to occupy their time. Sure it may be easy to argue that there are plenty of PO's to teach, but being both one of the learners, and now one of the instructors, it is easier to say this than maintain the cadets attention while doing this.
I'm not trying to stir the pot here, but I think cadets would be a lot more mature if they were given things to be responsible for and given role models to look up to by having soldiers instructing the cadets and showing them how to do things. I've been to a cadet garrison exercise and the resulting display looked more like a rag-tag militia than a uniformed group of cadets.
The issue is not entirely systemic. Although the program has its shortcomings - a lot of the end result is the dedication of the officers in charge. Devoted officers who not only find ways to keep their cadets interested by making the effort be it just by themselves or by bringing in support from affiliated units, but also by fostering the leadership of the senior cadets are what makes or breaks a cadet corps.
Wow, didn't expect that out of some pictures.
If I can still find any of the old pictures I'll scan em and post em up.
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Way back when I was cadet ...
I'm pretty sure that we didn't have "CIs." I have oldsheimers though and it could be just me.
What I do remember is members of The RCR being in the drill hall with us every Tuesday night, and on the weekends, and being out in the field and on the ranges with them.
We cadets taught most of our own lectures, but those guys were excellent at giving us pointers and ensuring that we were interested in showing up each night, weekend and exercise.
I had a blast.
I'm pretty sure that we didn't have "CIs." I have oldsheimers though and it could be just me.
What I do remember is members of The RCR being in the drill hall with us every Tuesday night, and on the weekends, and being out in the field and on the ranges with them.
We cadets taught most of our own lectures, but those guys were excellent at giving us pointers and ensuring that we were interested in showing up each night, weekend and exercise.
I had a blast.
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In this vein, one of the people I admire most is an RCR Sgt who was OIC of our armoury. He was always happy to support the cadets whenever he could be of assistance, and really taught me as a younger cadet, the way an NCO should direct the troops. A very dedicated soldier, he worked his rear off for the unit, if sometimes to a hilarious degree such as when he tried to standardize the armoury right down to the stacking of tables (funny mainly because of the pictures posted around the armoury that boldly stated "This area must look like this - NO EXCEPTIONS."ArmyVern said:
He was posted out to NS about a year ago to be an Area Cadet Officer out there, and I can only assume that the COs of said cadet corps are feeling the burn.
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Kyle Burrows said:
Why thank you buttercup ;D. As soon as I can clear a few projects out of the way. I have a couple of CDs worth all three branches of service over the last twenty years or so. And yes there is nothing wrong with milk, drink lots and one day you too will be a fine healthy specimen of Canadian manhood.
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Ahhh yes indeedy...the good ol' days. :warstory: Firing the C1 and C2, SMG Drill, going on tactical Ex with the affiliated Regt and having Cdts in all positions but CC and Dvr (although after shadowing the D&M classes and getting to drive in the training area, we probably could have been drivers on the Cougar if they could have issued 404s and 416s). You know your Corps had it good when a 15 year old knew how to head space and time a GPig... A few guys actually ended up getting some courses like winter warfare written off when they joined the Regt because of what we got to do. Try that today and people are going to jail.
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Not quite Cadets, but my first year out of them. This was my first Summer Concentration with the Reserves, definitely days WAY gone by. Taken in Pet, circa 1968.
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Kyle,
I agree much with your post when it came to the CIC officers. My general peeve these days are the fact that we have CIC officers who are 19 that think because now they are a Commissioned officer they can order who ever around, and how ever they like to. Kids leading kids. These officers have no formal military training at all. I'm sorry but I don't count 2weeks of BOQ, a basic officer's course. No matter HOW much the CIC would like to argue that it's equivalent to the PRes BMOQ, I just don't buy it.
Although there is a sense of arrogance from all young subies, but I often find that CIC officers are worse. This could be due to a lack of contact with experienced NCMs and senior NCOs, or just over all lack of maturity and brains (uh oh there we go I said it). Now, when I say this, I really don't want to be generalizing, however, I will admit that officer quality in the CIC has dropped drastically since I was in, and THAT wasn't too long ago either.
I remember the days when I was doing push ups in my blues (I was an air cadet), and making my cadets do push ups. Are push ups a form of punishment? I would say that it is for those kids who aren't fit. But for the rest of us, it was a blast. Team building, raises morale, to see which flight could do the most? None of that anymore I see. I have all the respect for those officers that came from the Regs/PRes that were either officers before or NCMs, it really matters not. The fact that they have REALLY served changes the way they handles things. Now, they sometimes aren't the best either but hey, there's always goods and bads in both groups.
I'm done my little rant... I'm just really disappointed with the program over all. I think the lack of things to do for the cadets, has really more to due with the officers then the cadet instructors. The quality of instruction has gone down too... it's really sad to see.
I agree much with your post when it came to the CIC officers. My general peeve these days are the fact that we have CIC officers who are 19 that think because now they are a Commissioned officer they can order who ever around, and how ever they like to. Kids leading kids. These officers have no formal military training at all. I'm sorry but I don't count 2weeks of BOQ, a basic officer's course. No matter HOW much the CIC would like to argue that it's equivalent to the PRes BMOQ, I just don't buy it.
Although there is a sense of arrogance from all young subies, but I often find that CIC officers are worse. This could be due to a lack of contact with experienced NCMs and senior NCOs, or just over all lack of maturity and brains (uh oh there we go I said it). Now, when I say this, I really don't want to be generalizing, however, I will admit that officer quality in the CIC has dropped drastically since I was in, and THAT wasn't too long ago either.
I remember the days when I was doing push ups in my blues (I was an air cadet), and making my cadets do push ups. Are push ups a form of punishment? I would say that it is for those kids who aren't fit. But for the rest of us, it was a blast. Team building, raises morale, to see which flight could do the most? None of that anymore I see. I have all the respect for those officers that came from the Regs/PRes that were either officers before or NCMs, it really matters not. The fact that they have REALLY served changes the way they handles things. Now, they sometimes aren't the best either but hey, there's always goods and bads in both groups.
I'm done my little rant... I'm just really disappointed with the program over all. I think the lack of things to do for the cadets, has really more to due with the officers then the cadet instructors. The quality of instruction has gone down too... it's really sad to see.
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Just six years ago, during my time as an Army Reservist, we went out on a winter exercise and brought along some Army and Air Cadets. They didn't carry around C7's like we did, or officially fire the C6 or C9. They came along mainly for survival training I guess. There are also times where I have seen Sea Cadets come out on Ships, besides HMCS Oriole, and sail for a few days.
There's still a lot that the Cadets can benefit from while training with Units in the CF.
There's still a lot that the Cadets can benefit from while training with Units in the CF.
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Jaydub,
an interesting point you bring forth in that those corps close to Reg units or bases still get some good experience. The daughter just aged out of Sea Cadets on the west coast and she did a couple of extend cruises (spring break) on various ships pulling a shadow watch. Hulls came back with no dents and the smile on her face under the grime "priceless"
an interesting point you bring forth in that those corps close to Reg units or bases still get some good experience. The daughter just aged out of Sea Cadets on the west coast and she did a couple of extend cruises (spring break) on various ships pulling a shadow watch. Hulls came back with no dents and the smile on her face under the grime "priceless"
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There certainly is a lot that the program can still offer to cadets, but it does rely on the CIC officers putting it all together. In that regard I am going to agree and disagree with MedTech. I agree that the BOQ (soon to be re-branded and redesigned again into BOTC) is not the same as the PRes BMOQ, but is intended to be what a CIC officer needs to perform the basic duties of their trade. I also agree that the wet behind the ears 19 year old O/Cdt can usually use a good smackdown from a senior NCO, its just that there are rarely any around, and honestly we don't always do the best at policing our own particularly in the smaller communities. The RCIS's try to instill a certain level of officership, but it comes back to the reinforcement at the local headquarters where we often fail.
However, in the larger centres, and where the cadet corps is actually co-located with the affiliated unti, there is still quite a bit of opportunity to do cross training (at least on the army side) as long as you know and follow the rules. Yes there are some restrictions, but we can still gett some of the cool stuff approved if the officers are experienced, and put in the time to make it happen. I would like to see us in the CIC spending more time working along side the officers and men of the affiliated units so that our subbies learn from those people what it really takes in the profession of arms and to provide that far less subtle correction they need sometimes, but as always it comes down to funding and perceptions. The only real issue with what I read in the previous post is the term "REALLY Serve". While we are non-deployable, the service of those in the CIC is no less real, just different. I came from the PRES, went back, and returned to CIC, and I can say that with a high degree of certainty.
However, in the larger centres, and where the cadet corps is actually co-located with the affiliated unti, there is still quite a bit of opportunity to do cross training (at least on the army side) as long as you know and follow the rules. Yes there are some restrictions, but we can still gett some of the cool stuff approved if the officers are experienced, and put in the time to make it happen. I would like to see us in the CIC spending more time working along side the officers and men of the affiliated units so that our subbies learn from those people what it really takes in the profession of arms and to provide that far less subtle correction they need sometimes, but as always it comes down to funding and perceptions. The only real issue with what I read in the previous post is the term "REALLY Serve". While we are non-deployable, the service of those in the CIC is no less real, just different. I came from the PRES, went back, and returned to CIC, and I can say that with a high degree of certainty.
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Sloaner, I apologize for the poor choice of words when I said 'REALLY Serve. indeed CIC officers provide a valuable service to the youths of today, and the leaders of tomorrow. However, I often shake my head at the lack of discipline these officers display in front of their young charges. For example, the use of non-issued footwear with DEUs. I've seen one officer wear high heels that are quite OBVIOUSLY NOT issued. Also, the lack of discipline within the ranks of these officers, bring not only a poor name to those of us who wear the uniform, but also the rank.
I thoroughly believe that the CIC BOQ should be changed so that it is longer, and it pertains to MORE then just the cadets side of things. They NEED to be taught about the service, the uniform that they wear, and the impact they have not only to their cadets, but the communities that they serve in. I also whole heartedly agree with you when you say that the CIC is poor at policing themselves. I've had more then one occasion encountered COs who are unwilling to discipline their junior officers for lack of... well almost everything.
I miss the days when the Officers from CIC, the majority of whom, came with previous service. Perhaps all CIC officers should do a minimum of 2 yrs service with PRes units?
I thoroughly believe that the CIC BOQ should be changed so that it is longer, and it pertains to MORE then just the cadets side of things. They NEED to be taught about the service, the uniform that they wear, and the impact they have not only to their cadets, but the communities that they serve in. I also whole heartedly agree with you when you say that the CIC is poor at policing themselves. I've had more then one occasion encountered COs who are unwilling to discipline their junior officers for lack of... well almost everything.
I miss the days when the Officers from CIC, the majority of whom, came with previous service. Perhaps all CIC officers should do a minimum of 2 yrs service with PRes units?
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