Contracting out Recruiting Process to Private Company

[Joe Blow]

Hello -

I thought I'd toss this out for discussion.

I thought that my particular case would have been somewhat remarkable, but I have come to realize that very long waits for processing - especially if they involve verification of prior service - are the norm.

This is obviously detrimental to the applicant.  For example I have I have not been able to renegotiate my position in the company with my employer, as he is (quite understandably) reluctant to have me take on any further major responsibilities as I might be leaving.  The drawn out nature of the recruiting process is curtailing my income.  Further, (to be candid) my wife and I have put off starting a family until I can be more sure of what my income will be (either with the CF or with my present employer.)  In short my life is on hold, which would be fine (and understandable) for a well defined time frame ...but that is not the case.  I'm sure I'm not alone in finding that this is creating problems.

I mention it because creating undue hardship for great numbers of applicants during the recruiting process cannot be helpful to the CF.  Especially if they intend to recruit another 5000 people for the regular force - over and above what is normally processed - as was promised by Martin in the last election.

Given that profit driven companies tend to be far more efficient than otherwise motivated groups, perhaps it is time to consider contracting out as much of the recruiting process as is possible.  With a properly structured contract the CF could ensure that it's required standards were met in areas X, Y and Z, and for things in which no substitute do (like interviews for ex.) the CF can do that work directly.

Would this step help the CF to meet it's recruiting goals? 

Just wondering what some of you might think.  I'd be interested in hearing from frustrated applicants, recruiters and those that have finally made it in.

Cheers,
Montreal

 

[Horse_Soldier]

Couldn't be any worse than what's going on now.  The present recruiting system is broken, kaputt, put-a-bullet-in-it-and-get-a-new-one.  Considering the almost non-existant level of service we get from the local recruiting centre, I'd rather deal with a motivated contractor whose bottom-line depends on keeping his clients happy.  The local centre staff seem to have lost sight of the objective (if they ever had a grasp of it in the first place).

 

[Joe Blow]

I should mention that Kincanuks has addressed the matter of of the verification of prior service delay in another thread.  He writes:

"The delays do not have anything to do with recruiting.  All requests for prior service information go to NDHQ, reserve units and Reserve HQs.  The process is made easier now that requests can be requested electronically and, if the person was released after 1997, it can be received instantaneously.  If an applicant has previous service documents then they should provide those at the time of application.  Recruiters do not sit on requests and will regularly check on the status of those requests with whomever they feel can answer their queries."

Could the VPS function be privatized?  Perhaps all required documents could be made available by extending an exception to the Privacy Act (or whatever legal means DND uses) to the contracted company.

Just a thought... really I am most interested in whether or not anyone has either an objection in principal to contracting out parts of the recruiting process, or an inside view that might reveal why it would not be helpful.

 

[Joe Blow]

Horse_Soldier - That's my instinct too.

 

[kincanucks]

The following is not intended to be a personal attack against Joe Blow.

If the information that we require on applicants with previous reserve service can be anywhere from their previous units to the reserve HQ to NDHQ.  How is contracting out the conduct of VFS going to change that or even make it faster?  Instead of contracting out how about we put procedures in place that make sure that reserve units follow strict guidelines for forwarding paperwork when they release someone.  As I mentioned in a previous posts the delays are outside of recruiting control.

So what else should we contract out?  The medicals?  With most of the country without a family doctor where do we find them to conduct our medicals?

CFAT testing?  Already done electroincally so no need.

Background checks?  Done through NDHQ.   Maybe someone should put more people in there.   I think they have three people working there.

Sorry but contracting out services needed by the military doesn't work.  If you don't believe me ask the supply world.  Can you imagine trying to depend on a private company to get your supplies to the front line during war.  But that is exactly what the federal government thought would be a good idea.

If you want your recruiting processes speeded up then write your MPs and tell them that in order to recruit 5000 more people there are going to have to be more people working in recruiting, especially medical officers to review files.

The average time from application to enrolment for a clean applicant is four months.  Try getting into another federal department like the RCMP in that time.

I mention it because creating undue hardship for great numbers of applicants during the recruiting process cannot be helpful to the CF.

You had better back that one up with some facts.  Or are you referring to the 500 or so complaints out of 25,000 applicants that the Ombudsman likes to flaunt about?  Well you can't satisfy everyone but at the end of the day we are still filling the positions with healthily, smart and physically fit Canadians.

Especially if they intend to recruit another 5000 people for the regular force - over and above what is normally processed - as was promised by Marin in the last election.

How long do you think that will take?  Because the military, not recruiting, couldn't take that many more people in one year so that had, if it happens, better be spread over the next few years.  Know why the military can't handle it?  It is because the military has been neglected and mismanaged for 50-60 years.  Again want to improve things in recruiting and in the military then write your MP and complain.

As a side note read a book by
Dr. Jack Granatstein called Who Killed the Canadian Forces.

http://www.cda-cdai.ca/CDA_GMs/AGM67/granatstein.htm

 

[kincanucks]

Couldn't be any worse than what's going on now.   The present recruiting system is broken, kaputt, put-a-bullet-in-it-and-get-a-new-one.    Considering the almost non-existant level of service we get from the local recruiting centre, I'd rather deal with a motivated contractor whose bottom-line depends on keeping his clients happy.   The local centre staff seem to have lost sight of the objective (if they ever had a grasp of it in the first place).

Wow where does that come from, a personal experience?  Non-existant level of service from every recruiting centre? A very bold statement indeed.

The local centre staff seem to have lost sight of the objective (if they ever had a grasp of it in the first place).

We have?  I don't think so because we are still filling the positions with healthy, smart and physically fit Canadians.  If we in recruiting were as bad as you think we are wouldn't we have all been fired by now?  Grant you there are some front service people who need a kick in the ass once in a while but come on, the whole system is bad?

Did you know that a lot of the complaints come from people who have been delayed for medical, drugs, physical fitness and criminal problems?  I think that is just fine because there are plenty of healthy, smart and physically fit and especially "clean" applicants to fill the positions.

I know exactly what my objective is and that is to attract and recruit healthy, smart, physically fit and clean applicants for the Canadian Forces and I and many others do a pretty damn good job of that. Notwithstanding the 500 or so complaints out of nearly 25,000 applicants and despite the limited resources we have.

Have a good weekend.

 

[Tpr.Orange]

Other then loosing a lot of jobs for nice people like myself, do you really want to trust a company with your med docs, and your security and history?

 

[dutchie]

There are 3 reasons why you can't contract out to a civvie company for recruiting (IMHO):

1- Privacy. My understanding is that the security check is the most time consuming part of the recruiting process. This has to be done by the RCMP and Fed Gov employees for privacy reasons. The Privacy Act prohibits a private citizens (or companies) from accessing a lot of personal info on citizens, and it is that info that is required to clear someone to be a CF member.

2)- Alternatives. There is no way that PSAC (Fed Gov employee union) would ever allow this work to be contracted out to a non-PSAC shop. If you think the RCMP/CF is slow in processing paperwork, wait till you see how fast PSAC members work. In fact, a good portion of the work done by the RCMP (and maybe CF) is actually done by PSAC (civvies) already.....so there probably wouldn't be a change in pace there anyhow.

3)- Security - Do you really want a civilain company controlling the ability of the military to staff it's ranks? Do you want a civ company to know the ins and outs of every new CF member? I have a wee bit of a problem with that.

 

[Love793]

Contracting out of medicals is not a bad idea.  It has been done before, and extremely quickly and efficiently.  As for the privacy issue.  Med staff are bound by law and some sort of medical code to keep their mouth shut about peoples histories and stuff.  Again it could easily be done.

Another solution is to employ the reserve doctors and med staff where avail to perform these.  Here in Windsor we actually had a Doctor who did our intake medicals.  He is no longer doing them because CFRC Hamilton has a med staff (Reg Force 6B PA)that comes down once a week.  It always amazes me though that we get back logged because we have more applicants than medical appointments.

Oh did I mention that the Doc, is currently a Reserve force Capt and Flight Surgeon, ex reg force Med O.  Apparently though he is not as qualified as the Reg Force WO, in determining wether the applicant is fit enough.  Now I'm not saying the WO is incompetent, as he has obviously proved that he is not.  However, I would generally believe that the doctor is more qualified than the Physician Assistant.