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torunisfun said:
From the last CANFORGEN deadline is 9 Jan 09.
Close Protection Training
- Thread starter riggs
- Start date
From the last CANFORGEN deadline is 9 Jan 09.
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Hey everyone, I have several questions about the CPP unit but I want to make sure Im getting answers from somebody with first hand knowledge and not info from someone who heard it from his cousin who was told by his friends uncle.
If you can answer the questions then please PM me.
Thanks.
If you can answer the questions then please PM me.
Thanks.
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Dingle berry said:
Having someone contact you by PM doesn't guarantee that they actually have first hand knowledge, but it does give them a chance to tel you anything without detractors. At least when you ask the questions in the open, others have the opportunity to "throw the BS flag" to help you sort out the "I heard" crew from those who you might want to direct specific private questions to later.
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Usually I would throw the questions out there for everyone, but after reading some items on here I've noticed alot of bickering and pettiness, Im here for information and not the BS that seems to come out of questions asked. Thats why I'll try to get my info PM'ed to me.
But I understand your point O'Leary and I respect your advice. Thank you.
But I understand your point O'Leary and I respect your advice. Thank you.
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Im curious about pay in the CP unit, now that its open to all trades are there any plans to give a "spec" pay or bonus for members who are not MP's? If not its going to be hard to keep guys in as CP operators when they can do a few years at the unit then get out and work for a civi company. Im just curious if theres been talk about it.
Hi Guys,
I hope you don’t mind me butting in, I have been involve in Close Protection training at both a civilian and government level for a number of year and have seen drastic changes in the civilian market mainly a lowering of standards or not knowing what should be taught. This was mainly due to Iraq when a few years ago; due to certain misunderstandings the corporate sector hired a lot of ex military as protection operators. They did this without requiring an accepted syllabus or creating the proper structures to ensure accountability. We are now flooded with no knowledge experts teaching out anything they like. At the same time at the top level the unique nature of the modern threat has transformed the close protection operation into an intelligence-based multitasking process. Within top level protection the catch phase is Security Hazard Effects Management Process (SHEMP). This is a method of decision-making in which individual risks are analyzed to determine the optimal course of action for each phase of the operation. When combined with the procedures of planning and intelligence SHEMP produces the safest method of operating in any hazardous situation. If the same amount of planning was applied to military operations it would save lives. With SHEMP the Close Protection Officer applies this information to the tactical environment. This allows him to see what is invisible to most. They see patterns that others do not and can spot anomalies, things that should happen but didn't or vis-à-vis. It also recognizes when expected elements are missing from the picture. This is describes as "negative cues" and again are invisible to novices. Close Protection doesn’t stop there after SHEMP, comes probability theory. Analytic studies show that criminal or terrorist attacks are influenced by different situational factors. These will depend upon a different constellation of opportunities that are tailored to the crimes in question. What it means is that you can predict the place where an attack is most likely to happen. This list is endless surveillance counter and anti, threat and risk assessment, survey and audits. I don’t know about the Canadian training but I would say its one of the best courses available and one of the most interesting jobs for any military operator. If any body want info on the British Standard Instute Close Protection Pas let me know
I hope you don’t mind me butting in, I have been involve in Close Protection training at both a civilian and government level for a number of year and have seen drastic changes in the civilian market mainly a lowering of standards or not knowing what should be taught. This was mainly due to Iraq when a few years ago; due to certain misunderstandings the corporate sector hired a lot of ex military as protection operators. They did this without requiring an accepted syllabus or creating the proper structures to ensure accountability. We are now flooded with no knowledge experts teaching out anything they like. At the same time at the top level the unique nature of the modern threat has transformed the close protection operation into an intelligence-based multitasking process. Within top level protection the catch phase is Security Hazard Effects Management Process (SHEMP). This is a method of decision-making in which individual risks are analyzed to determine the optimal course of action for each phase of the operation. When combined with the procedures of planning and intelligence SHEMP produces the safest method of operating in any hazardous situation. If the same amount of planning was applied to military operations it would save lives. With SHEMP the Close Protection Officer applies this information to the tactical environment. This allows him to see what is invisible to most. They see patterns that others do not and can spot anomalies, things that should happen but didn't or vis-à-vis. It also recognizes when expected elements are missing from the picture. This is describes as "negative cues" and again are invisible to novices. Close Protection doesn’t stop there after SHEMP, comes probability theory. Analytic studies show that criminal or terrorist attacks are influenced by different situational factors. These will depend upon a different constellation of opportunities that are tailored to the crimes in question. What it means is that you can predict the place where an attack is most likely to happen. This list is endless surveillance counter and anti, threat and risk assessment, survey and audits. I don’t know about the Canadian training but I would say its one of the best courses available and one of the most interesting jobs for any military operator. If any body want info on the British Standard Instute Close Protection Pas let me know
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Owner said:
Were you there?
Quite frankly, I would rather have mature seasoned former-mil veteran pers, with time in country, now as PSD's than some 'SHEMPie' certified classroom/trg area trained wannabee, who has no military experience, and never experienced an operational environment, especially when Murphy's law takes over.
EDIT to clarify the fol:
I had limited esposure with PSD contractors during my tour in Iraq. The ones I met from Triple Canopy, and Blackwater, and others were mainly US former SF soldiers who, IMHO acted professionally, and from my own personal observation one day, acted with such bravery to save another from a shot down LOCH near Hiafa Street while under constant SAF from insurgents. On another occasion while under overwhelming SAF, they saved members from a RPG'd uparmoured SUV in their convoy, not too far from the 14th July Bridge. I did not see this but heard it all. You don't learn that type of stuff ina classroom. One thing I did learn is on a two way rifle range, all that theory/classroom stuff goes right out the window. Just because a few tainted the overall reputation of the Civvy PSD's, then having this over a biased one sided media system, does not make all of them bad.
I do hope that makes sense.
My two bob,
OWDU
Harris said:
CDO 2 That's very interesting comment; it’s for a PAS that’s what’s known as a public available standard so there is not much chance to sell it. However it’s a British Standard, so I thought you would not have it. Why did I bother posting? I served twenty-five in the Military most in sort of a JTF2 equivalent In fact I remember when JTF2 started up so I do know this PAS will save lives; close protection is a highly multidimensional assignment, it’s like Afghanistan an adversary needs to find and exploit only one option to succeed whereas the Closed Protection Officers must identify, understand, and manage all possible vulnerabilities. This involves risk based security using a modular system that lets you identify the options open to an attacker; this you know what his options are, you know his intelligence requirements. Spot his intelligence activities and it gives you an idea of the type of attack site he will use. Get the idea, what it means is you can run round the block twenty times a day and do as many practical pistol shoots as you like, but if you can’t plan on where how and when, you will loose. And thats not a sales pitch.
Please excuse any spelling etc.
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Owner said:
Whatever floats your boat pal. I know where I've been, thanks. I need to prove nothing to no one. Usually those who mention any SF TI publically, or say 'I've got more TI on Ops than you' have been no where.
Owner, its your credibility, not mine. I am bowing out, you'll cut your own throat without the aid of me.
Enjoy.
OWDU
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Everyone can stop this pissing contest right now.
Milnet.ca Staff
Milnet.ca Staff
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Owner said:
Just an observation but...
Given your initially bad mouthing military trained PSD, then your going back to the fact that the military did in fact write the book on this, I am at a loss.
If your point was that due to the demand in Iraq, that missions previous undertaken by both SOF elements, and trained Military Police (which I like to consider an oxymoron ;D) where farmed out to pretty much any swinging dick that could hold a gun, then yes you do have a point.
However I dont care if your a former SSM of a Sabre Sqn, you can only teach so far from the outside, the rest of the learning is done on the ground, hopefully under the guidance of trained leadership. Something your not able to do once your out.
Dropping in here to tell us your the wise one from the mountain is not the best way to communicate, at least in my humble opinion.
Sorry I miss-posted the last
Yes I see your point . But most people seem to be missing my point; I offered the new public standard to this forum. I did this because it was labelled Close Protection. I didn’t mention training. As for the military writing the book, I know I was there at the time doing a tour from a Sabre Squadron to CRW, the department that handled this sort of thing. Times have changed new drills and procedures have been incorporated. It was in the late sixties early seventies that the book was written and the ideas have evolved. With Iraq and Afghanistan operational priorities changed and a lot of stuff was passed to contractors. I know as the last non European operational job I was doing was for the UN with an ambassador in Kabul when the Canadians were by up by the old palace, and I was gone sixty then; before that Bosnia (UN) Mogadishu, lot of time in West Africa running the operation, lots of short term moves etc. Because of this I was part of the team instrumental in writing the PAS for the British Standard Institute. There was no monetary gain for me, been around long enough to know the military don’t pay for this. I didn’t expect the response, not the name calling just the attitude to new developments. Sad to see Canada.
Yes I see your point . But most people seem to be missing my point; I offered the new public standard to this forum. I did this because it was labelled Close Protection. I didn’t mention training. As for the military writing the book, I know I was there at the time doing a tour from a Sabre Squadron to CRW, the department that handled this sort of thing. Times have changed new drills and procedures have been incorporated. It was in the late sixties early seventies that the book was written and the ideas have evolved. With Iraq and Afghanistan operational priorities changed and a lot of stuff was passed to contractors. I know as the last non European operational job I was doing was for the UN with an ambassador in Kabul when the Canadians were by up by the old palace, and I was gone sixty then; before that Bosnia (UN) Mogadishu, lot of time in West Africa running the operation, lots of short term moves etc. Because of this I was part of the team instrumental in writing the PAS for the British Standard Institute. There was no monetary gain for me, been around long enough to know the military don’t pay for this. I didn’t expect the response, not the name calling just the attitude to new developments. Sad to see Canada.
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Owner said:
Owner,
Perhaps you need to review the posts you have made. You jumped into a thread on a fairly sensitive topic (one in which most experienced professionals do not freely engage in random discussions about their business) with a blunt and frankly, poorly presented, opening statement. You made no real attempt to establish bona fides and you have started with an empty profile and a nickname which could be perceived as pompous.
This forum can be very welcoming to professionals who take the time to introduce themselves and establish credibility through their contributions. We've also had our experiences with walts and imposters and many of the members are guarded when anyone leaps into a thread claiming to be an expert with no substantiation.
It's easy to claim to be a professional, but we have seen that many also have difficulty presenting themselves as one in a text-only environment, where personality, appearance and all of those other clues we normally use in interpersonal interaction aren't there to help the worlds make the points.
Milnet.ca Staff
