Civi protesters, repect and the CDS's speech merged topics

[Gdsm Chris]

Hey all,
I'm just joining this site. I'm working on a Ph.D. at Carleton University in Ottawa. I'm a former member of the CGG.
Yesterday evening, the CDS, Gen Hillier came to deliver a lecture here at Carleton. I'm sure he was looking to give the lecture to a group of mature students seeking to learn something new. Instead, a small group of radicals came to disrupt the lecture, suggesting the CF is in league with the US policy of killing everything they see. Would you believe one student actually went up to a microphone during the Q&A period following the lecture, and his 'question' was to ask Gen Hillier to resign?
Why do people not seem to respect young men and women putting their own lives on the line to try and help rebuild countries like Afghanistan?
Are civilians with no military experience growing more disrespectful than they have in the past?
Glad to be here, hope to meet all of you on this site.
Take care,
Chris

 

[2 Cdo]

I don't think kids on campus, or any civvies out there are any more or less respectful then years gone by. But what they might get, due to the internet and camcorders, is more coverage. It's been mentioned on another thread that with the university crowd it is a rite of passage to show disdain for anything construed as "right wing". It is only later after getting married, having kids and carrying a mortgage that they turn into that which they held in disdain. :'(
Just a lifelong maturing process.

 

[armyvern]

Gdsman Chris!!

Welcome aboard. Glad to have you!!

 

[GO!!!]

I agree with 2Cdo.

As a regular visitor to several University campuses, and a former full time student, I see it all the time. I think that it is mostly because the right wing, and especially the military is such an easy target. It is simple to find fault with what the army is or is not doing, and simpler still to make flags, throw garbage and chant and yell in opposition to globalisation, logging, the war in Iraq etc. When you offer nothing but mindless, screaming opposition though, you can expect to be marginalised and ignored, as these fools were.

My personal favorite is the video (available on Kazaa) of G8 protestors with "no blood for oil" signs being dropped off by their parents - in a Ford Excursion and a Denali.

The flip side of the coin is that in a freedom based democracy (which we enjoy) soldiers exist to protect the rights of all the citizens of this nation, be they idiotic left wing peaceniks or the someone who has neglected to ever vote. They are exercising their constitutional rights, which we exist to protect, even when it is distasteful.

Look on the bright side, US troops returning from Vietnam were spat upon, war amps were laughed at etc. We pay Gen Hillier the big bucks, and he is a smart dude, so  he can handle some clown who could'nt summarise foreign policy with a copy of the economist in front of  him asking for his job!

 

[North Star]

Welcome to the forum Chris,

I have to agree with 2 Cdo... I was a grad student at UofT and spent probably way too much time there then is healthy, but noticed that trend. As an undergrad, it's hip to be "against the establishment" and to revel in dying/dead Marxist or neo-Marxist ideology. The minute they graduate, start paying taxes, and worry about their kids being blown up they begin to swing the other way...

I found there were many students, however, who made an effort despite the crushingly left-wing atmosphere to learn about the military. They just don't show up in the protestor mob that student "leaders" mobilize to try and harass people.  Quite frankly, I always viewed those student "leaders" as dudes trying to get laid by hippie-chicks and not anywhere close to the intellectual "A-Team" of the university in question.

I bet you that General Hillier had fun with it. From my limited experience with him, he doesn't seem to be someone easily intimidated by anyone.

 

[EW]

I think the increased positive media coverage -I consider positive media coverage to be anything that at least reminds Canadians of where their troops are working on their behalf- has resulted in a much increased positive profile for the CF.  Especially when compared to 10-years ago.

As for some folks at an university campus asking our CDS to resign.  Good on them for exercising their right to speak freely without fear of retribution.  I don't agree with them of course, but I certainly think that we live in a society where things should be questioned, even if I don't agree with the question.

Today's Ottawa Citizen made mention of the CDS' visit, and the direct questions put to the CDS, by that small group.  The Citizen also noted that when the CDS was asked if he would resign, he walked back to the mike and simply said "NO..." which was met by a loud and sustained applause from the audience.  

Good on him.  What a great country we live in.

 

[North Star]

Lol...don't worry Piper. Most of the left-wingers at the protest are nowhere near being "leaders of tomorrow". The minute they graduate they'll get crappy-paying retail/bottom-of-the-heap-information-age  data processing jobs. That's all I was offered on civvy-street with my BA (lol...in History granted). What got me jobs wasn't my education but the extracurricular student political stuff (nope, not organizing protests) and my CF accomplishments. Most of my buddies with BAs are still un or under-employed, while I came to my senses and joined the Reg F (or maybe lost them, but I don't think I can stand civvy-street anymore).

If I ever had to hire somebody, I'd quite frankly completely ignore the University stuff and concentrate on everything else. I've met more dynamic, strong-willed, and generally "with-it" people in the CF than I did at University, and the UofT had more people....

 

[x-grunt]

Welcome to the forum Chris,

I found there were many students, however, who made an effort despite the crushingly left-wing atmosphere to learn about the military. They just don't show up in the protestor mob that student "leaders" mobilize to try and harass people.  

Yep, that's my experience too. Many were interested and willing to be educated. There are always left wing (and right wing) party-line types who are inflexible morons, but most students will dialogue and listen, if approached with respect for their starting viewpoint. At U of T anyways. As another poster said on another thread, most students are more anti-bush, vs. anti-CF.

And I work in a social service environment with many decidedly left-leaning types, and most of them are quite okay with the military. No one is really anti-CF, just anti-violence.

I was in in the late 70's early 80's, and I have to say that people seem to have a bit more respect now. We've never had a military-aware culture, except in wartime, so I'd say that we are doing okay.

 

[Cpl.Banks]

Welcome aboard, anyways I saw the lecture and it was pretty interesting to see them actually ask Gen. Hillier to resign, they were met by a cheer once the CDS said very simply...No.HA! But anyways it was pretty interesting to watch and it looked like he was having fun telling a few jokes here and there.And who knew he was a Leafs fan?!  
UBIQUE!!!

 

[CADPAT SOLDIER]

Is Hiller coming through Winnipeg to speak anytime soon?

 

[Cloud Cover]

I think its a mistake to confuse "civilians" with the radicalized left in universities, especially eastern Canadian universities. Most Canadians are far more honest than them...

My 0.02, FWIW.

 

[mainerjohnthomas]

    I had the interesting experence of being a soldier and student at the same time.  Getting back from an ex days late due to being detatched from my own unit to help some poor sig-less PPCLI out, I had to go straight from Base to class to write an exam, having secured the OK from my OC to go in uniform (SOP was you required permission to go in public in uniform) as my civvies were still on their way back from Wainwright.  To wear a uniform on a (just) pre Gulf-War Canadian campus is to know how the first black students felt.  Every eye was upon me, and the looks ranging from dissaproval to outright horror were somewhat comical.  The idea that any soldier would be seen in a place of higher learning, seemed mind blowing.  It is interesting that this attitude was in place at a University who owes half of its buildings to WWII expansion.

 

[Meridian]

Im seeing it all the time in my (undergrad) third year International Human Rights class here in Montreal already, and its week 3.  People just don't have a clue.  They approach the sessions and explanations of the workings of all the IGOs as being worthless because they have zero power to enforce... they argue constantly that the western world doesnt care, and they constantly debate the value of anything organized and official in the international political realm as being worthless because it has allowed things to pass.

People have stated that they dont understand why we have a UDHR if Sudan has been allowed to happen... they claim they feel the "UDHR" is bankrupt if these things dont happen... When you try to explain to them that Sudan wouldn't mean anything if you didnt have a common understanding of what was "good and bad" such as the UN Declaration on Human Rights, they get defensive and clearly are lost.


The problem is that many of the students in today's campuses are so worked up about getting worked up that they fail to take a broader look at the picture. Not enough people can argue both sides of any issue anymore - people are too used to focussing solely on what they feel in their hearts, without stopping to consider the other side. Essentially, logic has failed.

I was a Carleton student last year, and watched the lecture on CPAC today, and noted teh conspicuous cutoff of the Q&A period....    that said, it just goes to show you the general feelings of  so-called educated youth in this country as to the value of our military.

 

[ArmyRick]

North Star, good point. Although we see these university protest, I guess we must remember that it doesn't represent 100% of the student body and their will always be good men and women who will take a stand for whats right and beleive in our Forces.

 

[teddy49]

I've gotta say, that I subscribe to David Grossman's theory of Sheep, Sheepdogs and Wolves.  Generally the sheep don't like to be reminded that there is a requirement for sheepdogs.  Until the wolves come along.

Just my $0.02

 

[Springroll]

I think it depends on the persons upbringing in many cases. My children, for instance, have a huge amount of respect for those that serve in the CF, both past and present. I have taken it upon myself to raise them to be respectful to all. When you have parents that do not care, you have kids that don't either. It all comes down to leading by example. If you are respectful when talking to others and in the way you treat others, your kids will see this and do the same. When you have parents that don't even take the time with their kids, that is when you have the little punks running around in wannabe gangs causing problems.

A prime example is when I was working with an elderly lady privately. I brought my kids along one day(she loved kids) and they sat there, called her mam(until she told them to call her by her name), chatted with her about her roots and even got her a cup of tea. They were shown by me(and my husband) on how to treat people, and they continue to be that way. My little old lady that i was taking care of had nothing but great thigns to say about them and she even went so far to say that it is nice to see parents raising their kids properly.

I respect the right of citizens to be angry, but many of them are angry at the wrong people. The military is out there doing a job and helping another country, but they forget that. All they seeon the tv and in the papers is people cammed up and carrying rifles. They do not hear about the dangers these people are having to deal with while also trying to help rebuild a country. What would these same people say if Canada ended up being like Afghanistan?

 

[Barek]

I just wanted to echo Springroll's comments.

My parents immigrated from Holland when they were 3 and 4. They were born shortly after WWII. But they raised me well and Remembrance Day always held a big place in my heart and it does even more so now that I was sworn in this past friday. I was always raised to respect others and now that value, among others, carries me into service for this great country.

But something I have noticed growing up in a mostly Dutch community of immigrants and the next generation or two after. Holland still remembers, they will always remember what was done for them by Canada. They still send tulips for the tulip festival to Ottawa (i believe, didn't research this but i know they did previous years), they provided money to build part of the NAC in Ottawa, and the little things that I find out reading books of a lady in Holland that still brings flowers 60 years after the war to the graves of some of the Canadian Soldiers she knew or the man who still maintains the graves of the Canadians in Holland because he remembers them liberating him when he was a boy. Or my girlfriends grandfather who remembers the Canadians meeting with the local German commander to be allowed to fly food in for the Dutch.

It is nice that I have a heritage of people that remember and are still grateful 60 years later for what was done for them in this day and age where I find that most young folk and middle-aged folk have no interest or care at all for history.

 

[BDTyre]

Last time I walked past the booths at the annual career day the school I attended sets-up, there were lots of people seemingly interested in the CF (and CSIS too).

 

[career_radio-checker]

I did a google search and found the protestors website

http://ottawa.indymedia.org/en/2005/09/1526.shtml

 

[Fry]

Why do people not seem to respect young men and women putting their own lives on the line to try and help rebuild countries like Afghanistan?

I agree totally with you had to say. I do agree that many civillians are very disrespectful as well as.... uneducated about the total situation. Many tend to believe what CNN tells them.

Rebuild Afghanistan? It was never built, lol.


A good thread nevertheless. Thanks for informing us on that talk!