Chopper on offer to cops

[Slim]

Chopper on offer to cops

Chief says a helicopter would be useful but isn't a top priority for his force

By ROB GRANATSTEIN, CITY HALL BUREAU

http://torontosun.com/News/TorontoAndGTA/2005/11/17/1310698-sun.html

Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair says a helicopter would be a useful addition to the force, but getting ready for takeoff is not the first priority.

At the Toronto Police Services Board meeting today, Blair and the board will hear a presentation from a charitable organization that wants to supply the force with a helicopter at no cost to taxpayers.

EFFECTIVE TOOL

Blair said a helicopter can be a very effective tool for police when hunting for criminals and missing people, among other uses.

"I believe it would have some value for policing in Toronto," Blair said yesterday, noting he hasn't examined the business case to be presented today.

While Blair is looking forward to hearing the presentation, he added he believes the best use of police is not in the air.

"I think the best value comes from putting police officers on the street, in neighbourhoods, interacting with the public and communities, enforcing the law and delivering services police officers can deliver," Blair said.

Blair said there are also issues about accepting private-sector contributions, and that would have to be examined.

Board vice-chairman Pam McConnell said she isn't convinced Toronto police need to be airborne.

"My view of priorities is not whirlybirds up in the air, it's about feet on the street and boots in the neighbourhoods," she said.

She and Blair both said the arrangement Toronto has with Durham and York police services gives the city adequate access to their helicopters, when necessary.

While the York and Durham choppers aren't available every time Toronto needs one, the relationship has worked well so far.

WORKED IN ALBERTA

Trevor Harness, president of Regional Air Support and Rescue (RASAR), said the charitable chopper program has worked in Calgary and Edmonton and he can't understand why something that maximizes resources, helps increase officer safety and costs nothing would be a problem.

"The helicopter is a proven crime deterrent," he said.

Harness, a former cop, believes RASAR can raise $10 million a year to pay for start-up costs, operation and maintenance of the chopper.

Former Chief Julian Fantino was a huge advocate of a police helicopter and had a number of mini-choppers in his office. Those models are gone now that Blair is in the chief's office.

No decision is expected today.

I think that either Bill Blair is scared of those hippy protester members of the Police Services Board or just isn't a good enough police officer to see the value of a piece of kit like that and the tremendous benefit that it would be to the TPS as a tool of law enforcement.

Pam McConnel, as we all know, is quite the 'expert' (in her own mind at least) when it comes to what she thinks the police should be doing.

Someone aught to ask her what year she graduated from OPC!

L.A. has roughly 12 in the air at any one time and another 28 that they can call on if required. I wonder if the Los Angeles police dept would think that police helicopters aren't required kit for policing?

In Canada York, Durham, Calgary, Edmonton, the RCMP, OPP, Surete Du Quebec, Winnipeg all use choppers. There may be more communities that the ones on this list that do as well that I don't know about.

Toronto is the 5th larest city in North America. Why don't we have police helicopters?

Slim

 

[muskrat89]

Phoenix PD has 7. http://www.phoenix.gov/police/airsup2.html#Unit

The smaller municipalities and Sheriff's Departments around here also have some...

Toronto doesn't have any?  ???


Edited to add:

Maricopa County has 4 choppers and 2 fixed wing aircraft    http://www.mcso.org/submenu.asp?file=Aviation

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Slim,
Listening to CBC on the way home this morning and I almost drove off the road laughing at the women who is spearheading some "co-alition" to keep toronto from getting one.
She was saying during the trial period last year she couldn't sleep, was nervous and stressed all the time knowing it was overhead somewhere.

Gee, I guess having one of the busiest airports in the world is no problem though......putz.

 

[x-grunt]

To be fair, I didn't see Blair say no, just that the priority of the TPS is face to face policing. He hadn't seen the proposal yet, either.

I think it would be a valuable asset, but then again I'm not a policing expert. I do know that T.O has one of the lowest crime rates (that's including the highly publicized gang shootings this year) of any Canadian city - waaaay better then the average US city which is maybe why L.A. needs squadrons of helos and we don't think it a big deal up here.

Nonetheless, it's a free machine, so why not grab it? I imagine there will be some expenses though.

women who is spearheading some "co-alition" to keep toronto from getting one

Bizarre. Some people will protest anything, just to be anti-something.

 

[Slim]

women who is spearheading some "co-alition" to keep toronto from getting one

In Durham (where I live) some group of anti-everythings tried the same thing with the cops and the regional council...They got told where to go and how to get there!

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

I think it would be a great thing for the Toronto Police Services to get  their own helicopter,  I know the cost is high and the no brainers who see it as the end of the world because it invades thier privacy need to realize it is not there to spy  or make life difficult for them. it is a tool like anything else a police officers has to use. weapons, flashlight, night stick, radio, vest, uniform and car.  a helicopter might even help rescue one of these no helicopter people when they need the help.

cons, the cost of it, noise and needing more then one to cover down time of the first one

pros, fast response time, extra set of eyes on a car chase, raids,  SAR, updating the Police service with latest equipment, makes them look like more then a small city  force,  good way  to watch crowds during public events,  takes police off the hiways and puts them on the street.
lots of reason for the use, fewer reasons not to have one

 

[Slim]

...Not to mention that the 15 news choppers that fly around all the time don't seem to be overly bothersome to anyone...?!

Kind of puts a big fat hole in their BS arguement, doesn't it...

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The noise thing is crap. I've been staying at the Delta Chelsea for half of the last year. Helos are coming and going from the hospitals next door 24 hrs a day. I got used to them in the first wek and don't even hear them when they fly by my windows. Anyone who has lived on a Base with a Tac Hel Sqn knows the same thing.

 

[TCBF]

"I've been staying at the Delta Chelsea for half of the last year."

- My my, hardly slumming it are we?  Ive been living in Bldg 18 in Wainwright, and I think they just painted over where a German POW wrote his initials (in gothic letters, natch.) on my wall.

;D

Tom

 

[Fishbone Jones]

What can I say Tom. The Gov't only wants the best for me and to keep me happy

 

[Zoomie]

The Comox Valley RCMP detachment has a Bell Longranger chopper - we have a population of about 60,000 people total (between 1 city and 2 towns).  Halloween is tonnes of fun - the spotlight comes on and the rotorheads fly about looking for hooligans.

On a serious note, flying around Toronto would be a serious problem for a helicopter on a chase.  Could you imagine the ATC nightmare that would ensure...  ATC would not be inclined to divert a commercial airliner simply for a police chase.

 

[Strike]

On a serious note, flying around Toronto would be a serious problem for a helicopter on a chase.  Could you imagine the ATC nightmare that would ensure...  ATC would not be inclined to divert a commercial airliner simply for a police chase.

NY and LA don't seem to have a problem with it.

The whole reason TO decided not to go with the choppers after their (extremely successful) trial was because of the amounts of noise complaints and people going on about how it was an invasion of their privacy.  I guess some people got it in their heads that the FLIR could see through walls.

As for something like this being funded by the private sector -- Kingston's K9 unit it funded this way.

 

[Cyr]

As for the noise complaint that these choppers make, I would say have you actually ever heard what these chopper sound like copaired to a jet liner, traffic or police or ambulance seirens? Well if you do the research you will find that these choppers are actually quite quiet when put into comparison with the above. Just a thought that I had I should share.

Cyr

 

[Slim]

Miller chopper stopper?

Mayor not for helicopter

By ROB GRANATSTEIN, CITY HALL BUREAU

A decision on whether Toronto Police will accept a donated helicopter is still up in the air.

Chief Bill Blair and Police Services Board chairman Alok Mukherjee have committed themselves to study the issue following more than an hour yesterday of presentations and deputations on the project -- mostly opposed.

Trevor Harness, president of Regional Air Support and Rescue (RASAR), told the board he has already raised $3 million for the purchase of a helicopter and if Toronto won't accept the donation he'll offer it to another force.

RASAR would pay for the helicopter -- $1.5 million up front, plus $1 million in operating costs -- and all other costs so it wouldn't cost the police anything.

Mayor David Miller, who sits on the board but missed the RASAR presentation yesterday, said he's opposed to a copper chopper.

"The chopper is a distraction," Miller said. "What we need to do is get police officers on the streets and neighbourhoods.

What a load of crap! Bandage One, the EMS chopper based out of Toronto Island, is a huge jet turbine powered aircraft that's about 3 times as large as a Bell Longranger and is also quite loud (comparable to a BlackHawk)

There is some sort of negative perception in this city about giving the police the tools required to do the job.

There was a serious shooting in the city today. The police may have been able to aprehend the culprits if they had had air!

Slim

 

[Taylor187]

Toronto is a liberal pit, and the liberals put a negative spin on anything aggresive looking. A Helo is aggresive looking to most people, so the sheep follow the idea.

The noise complaints are idiotic, I live in the durham region and I hear low flying choppers constantly. The police chopper is always looking for maryjane fields around my house. Hell I used to live at the corner of Clements/Harwood in Ajax where the hospital helipad was a few hundred feet from my house and there was never once was noise complaint from the neighborhoods.

Miller just wants to keep the sheeps happy so he can get elected again and hoist his mighty broom. Give me back the Bad-Boy's ol'coot anyday.

 

[noneck]

Abbotsford Police Department from out here in the Fraser Valley of BC has a chopper on regular patrol as well as on call 24/7. It's owned by a former part time paramedic who sold a private  business for a huge sum and now likes to play part time cop with the Abbie PD. The chopper is all marked up in police colours and the police merely provider a sworn member as the Tactical Observer/System Operator and pay for the fuel. They recently were first on scene for a helo crash up in the mountains and reached the scene before the SAR Techs parachuted in.

 

[MPIKE]

A good link on the subject matter.
http://www.alea.org/public/pics/index.htm

A pic of AIR 2.. (Slim you'll find Air1 on same site)
http://www.alea.org/public/pics/york_regional_police.htm

The noise complaints are idiotic

and yes it is. 
This same idiot mindset originally rendered the decision against the use of FLIR probably because that judge used the movie Blue Thunder as a reference.  Thankfully that was successfully appealed..

 

[Slim]

A good link on the subject matter.
http://www.alea.org/public/pics/index.htm

A pic of AIR 2.. (Slim you'll find Air1 on same site)
http://www.alea.org/public/pics/york_regional_police.htm
and yes it is.  
This same idiot mindset originally rendered the decision against the use of FLIR probably because that judge used the movie Blue Thunder as a reference.   Thankfully that was successfully appealed..

You've got to be kidding!

As for Air1...I usually know where it is...Over my house! ( i live underneathe the flight path into Oshawa Regional) ;D

 

[MPIKE]

You've got to be kidding!

lol I didn't have emoticon for sarcasm re: Blue thunder. ( a great movie though ;D)

If you have a whole lot of time on your hands read through a copy of the case law--TESSLING V. The Queen.  It was a very frustrating period for Air support.

 

[yoman]

Toronto doesn't have any police aircraft at all?

That's interesting seeing as Ottawa has a Cessna equipped with FLIR available. Interesting on how things work in different cities.

PS: The Ottawa plane is very well equipped.