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Challenger/"VIP" Jet/CF Chopper Use (CDS, others) [merged]

I thought pretty much about the same thing

as in "this would be a convenient way to get rid of a CDS"

 
Or fall on his own sword and step down.  Knowing the character of this gentleman I could see that.
 
Crantor said:
Or fall on his own sword and step down.  Knowing the character of this gentleman I could see that.
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which would serve the purpose even better ...
Perhaps I've watched "The House of Cards" trilogy too often.
 
LOL.  I just finished watching the only season of Kings.  Maybe that's why I brought it up...
 
:facepalm:

This CDS was installed on 02 July 2008; his tenure right now stands at 3 years, 2 months and 14 days.  The CDS serves "at pleasure", but generally for a 3 year term. Gen Hillier served under 3 1/2 years; his predecessor, Gen Henault, served just over 3 1/2 years.

Thus, by this time next year it's very likely we'll have a new CDS - he'll have served out his term.
 
dapaterson said:
:facepalm:

This CDS was installed on 02 July 2008; his tenure right now stands at 3 years, 2 months and 14 days.  The CDS serves "at pleasure", but generally for a 3 year term. Gen Hillier served under 3 1/2 years; his predecessor, Gen Henault, served just over 3 1/2 years.

Thus, by this time next year it's very likely we'll have a new CDS - he'll have served out his term.
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Fair enough. I did say I had my tin foil hat on ;).  Would be a shame to leave under a cloud though regardless of tenure length.
 
Walt is one of the best people I've ever met. Not just a good officer....but a damn fine person.

If he goes I, for one, will miss him. I hope he does not go under this cloud.....and yes I wear a tin foil hat as well.


Wondering who would have tipped the media to this? or am I just another conspiracy theory wannabe?
 
Even paranoids are right some of the time.

It does seem a little suspicious that someone has an axe to grind. I find that it's a little too convenient following on the heels of the story about former Gov. General Jean using the jet to fly on vacations.
 
Jim Seggie said:
Wondering who would have tipped the media to this? or am I just another conspiracy theory wannabe?
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No need for conspiracy theory here.  Journalists writing about Access to Information Act request results is pretty routine - and not just recently:
 
The media always adds a cost factor to these jets.  There is no extra cost to the tax-payer for flying crown assets.  The fuel, salary, oil, etc is already budgeted and paid in advance.  If the CDS didn't fly those hours on the jet, the crew would have just taken it empty and gotten their currency training (ie cross-countries) by flying elsewhere.  A little research would go a long way way. 
 
Zoomie said:
The media always adds a cost factor to these jets.  There is no extra cost to the tax-payer for flying crown assets.  The fuel, salary, oil, etc is already budgeted and paid in advance.  If the CDS didn't fly those hours on the jet, the crew would have just taken it empty and gotten their currency training (ie cross-countries) by flying elsewhere.  A little research would go a long way way.
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And most citizens can't understand this. My wife and I discussed this and it was pointless bringing this up. She is on the side of the media....I made my point and shut up/.
 
Zoomie said:
The media always adds a cost factor to these jets.  There is no extra cost to the tax-payer for flying crown assets.  The fuel, salary, oil, etc is already budgeted and paid in advance.  If the CDS didn't fly those hours on the jet, the crew would have just taken it empty and gotten their currency training (ie cross-countries) by flying elsewhere.  A little research would go a long way way.
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But if the story was bent towards the truth, it wouldn't be that sensational.  Since it's a government dept that's being slandered, they don't care because it would be a lose/lose situation for that dept to confront the story head on - it would look like someone back pedalling or the jackboot of the government coming down on the poor downtrodden press, so they look bad either way.  My guess is the government is hoping it'll just go away OR that the Canadian people are somewhat smarter than the reporter in question is.

:2c:

MM
 
I think we need to realize that Challenger use/cost is always an issue and a good story. Gen Natynczyk is a well known public figure - better known that many (most?) cabinet ministers. Mix a well known guy, with a reliable 'news' story, add a good solid dose of "gotcha journalism", and then add just a pinch of anti-military bias and you have the Good Grey Globe's story.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
I think we need to realize that Challenger use/cost is always an issue and a good story. Gen Natynczyk is a well known public figure - better known that many (most?) cabinet ministers. Mix a well known guy, with a reliable 'news' story, add a good solid dose of "gotcha journalism", and then add just a pinch of anti-military bias and you have the Good Grey Globe's story.
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The unified theory of journalism from the outside looking in.

I'll be looking for this bit of context as well:
Zoomie said:
The media always adds a cost factor to these jets.  There is no extra cost to the tax-payer for flying crown assets.  The fuel, salary, oil, etc is already budgeted and paid in advance.  If the CDS didn't fly those hours on the jet, the crew would have just taken it empty and gotten their currency training (ie cross-countries) by flying elsewhere.  A little research would go a long way way. 
Click to expand...

Also, let's not forget - the Good Grey Globe didn't even break the story.  CTV asked for and got the documents, producing the first story.  Any indication that the Globe even looked at the logs in question?  I haven't seen any, and I stand to be corrected.  And no outlet is sharing the logs.
 
I've read the stories, and seen how quickly they were swept to the back pages of the media websites.

I was in attendance at the Grey Cup with the CDS. He both arrived and left Edmonton in uniform. And he attended multiple functions and meetings while he was here for the weekend.

This goes along the lines of Rank Has Its Privilages. Being the top military member in the country, there are certain perks to the job. One of those being that he gets to attend high profile events, as a representative of the entire CF. Sure it's a good gig, but it's not 100% private/pleasure. I, myself, got the opportunity to attend the Grey Cup game on the taxpayers dollar; but I also had a job to do, just like the CDS.
 
I'd side with the non-conspiracists here: I have a hunch most media outlets have a journalist who submits semi-annual "Tell us what the Challenger's been doing" access to information requests to manufacture stories exactly like this. What stands out about this one is the bit about the trip to St Maarten's to "catch a cruise"; it wouldn't at all surprise me to learn that there was a service obligation associated with that trip as well (DND's Proactive Disclosure site shows the CDS was in Jamaica, Guatemala and Honduras in the weeks surrounding the date in question), but where did the media outlet get the bit of information about the cruise? Surely the flight logs didn't reveal that, so what did?
 
hamiltongs said:
What stands out about this one is the bit about the trip to St Maarten's to "catch a cruise"; it wouldn't at all surprise me to learn that there was a service obligation associated with that trip as well (DND's Proactive Disclosure site shows the CDS was in Jamaica, Guatemala and Honduras in the weeks surrounding the date in question), but where did the media outlet get the bit of information about the cruise? Surely the flight logs didn't reveal that, so what did?
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My guess:  there's a spokesperson quoted in the original CTV story, so that was probably one of the questions - "what was happening in St. Maarten that the CDS had to be flown there?"  Interesting how the first CTV story included that, but NOT the fact that the CDS was called away to a repatriation (that was added in a later version).
 
According to the CBC News

In the case of the flight to St. Maarten, Cyr said, Natynczyk had to catch up with his family on their holiday because he stayed in Canada to attend a 2010 repatriation ceremony for four soldiers and a journalist killed in Afghanistan. He flew on the Challenger to meet his family to get on a cruise.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/09/16/pol-natynczyk-flight-costs.html
 
The story would have raised a lot less interest if it was reported as: 

Gen Natynzcyk was recalled from leave and a planned vacation that he had paid for personally, in order to attend dead soldiers' and a journalist's repatriation.  The Government did not reimburse Gen Natynzcyk for the cost of his personal airline ticket he forfeited to attend the official function.  The Canadian Forces did, however, fly the General to his destination and the aircrew from 412 Squadron in Ottawa used flight hours already budgeted and allocated to the squadron to maintain required aircrew currency levels.


...but that doesn't have paper-selling panache...
 
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