CH-148 Cyclone Progress

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Does anyone have any ideas what the schedule looks like to see the Cyclone come into service?

Thanks in advance, Matthew.

 

[Baz]

Does anyone have any ideas what the schedule looks like to see the Cyclone come into service?

Thanks in advance, Matthew.

It's funny, I know it, but I'm not sure enough to to quote it...

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Does anyone have any ideas what the schedule looks like to see the Cyclone come into service?

Thanks in advance, Matthew.

Define "service".

 

[Kirkhill]

Define "service".

Medium Lift Helicopter / Tactical Transport? 

 

[Baz]

Medium Lift Helicopter / Tactical Transport? 

Um... never.

... and I know you were being sarcastic, but I figured I'd cut off others.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Medium Lift Helicopter / Tactical Transport? 

It would be like using an AWACS as a passenger hauler....

 

[Loachman]

That would be great. They could turn that smartie into a revolving restaurant.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Well, what did you expect from soldiers who see the primary duty of the Air Force or Navy as being truck driver to haul the Army everywhere. They just can't stand us having anything that can't be used to carry paratroops or a landing force.

Worse thing is they don't even have real trucks for themselves to get their arses over to the airfield or harbour  ;D

 

[Kirkhill]

Well, what did you expect from soldiers who see the primary duty of the Air Force or Navy as being truck driver to haul the Army everywhere. They just can't stand us having anything that can't be used to carry paratroops or a landing force.

Worse thing is they don't even have real trucks for themselves to get their arses over to the airfield or harbour  ;D

No fun in trucks.  Everyone has one.... except the army. [

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Define "service".

"Taking over responsibilities from the Sea Kings." 

 

[Baz]

"Taking over responsibilities from the Sea Kings."

The information at http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/business-equipment/maritime-helicoper.page is still correct and describes the  situation better than I can... from the FAQ:

Quote
The first Cyclones will reach Initial Operational Capability (IOC) in 2017 and will have an ability to perform a range of warfighting capabilities in a threat environment. The Royal Canadian Navy will be ready to embark and operationally deploy Cyclone detachments on ships at that point.

The Cyclone will deploy to various exercises for testing in 2016.

Ultimately it is the decision of operational commanders (in this case, the Commanders of the Royal Canadian Air Force and the Royal Canadian Navy) as to which aircraft and ships will deploy together.

/Quote

Two aircraft have been at sea recently doing trials; here's Montreal's Facebook page https://m.facebook.com/HMCSMontreal/posts/1109351009098183

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Awesome....thanks Baz. 

 

[The Bread Guy]

The latest via CBC.ca:

The country's air force is now projecting it will be 2025 before its long-suffering CH-148 Cyclone helicopter fleet is fully up to speed with all of the aircraft, pilots and ground crew needed for deployments — both at home and overseas.

The date for what's known in the military as Full Operational Capability (FOC) will be almost 21 years after Paul Martin's Liberal government signed a contract with U.S. defence giant Sikorsky Aircraft to deliver 28 state-of-the-art maritime helicopters.

It will also be seven years after the last of the vintage CH-124 Sea King choppers is scheduled to retire after flying for over five decades.

The timelines were released to CBC News as part of research into the country's defence policy review.

( ... )

The last report on major Crown projects, tabled in the spring, said the Cyclone project would be completed and closed out in 2022 ...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

to be a bit fair, whoever would have thought that Sikorsky would have bunged up so badly on their design, when they created the niche in the first place. 

 

[Lumber]

I can understand how a poor tendering process can cause long delays in actually getting equipment. I don't like it, and I don't want to accept it, but I understand it.

What I do not understand is how you can have a signed contract and still have procurement take this long.

 

[Good2Golf]

I can understand how a poor tendering process can cause long delays in actually getting equipment. I don't like it, and I don't want to accept it, but I understand it.

What I do not understand is how you can have a signed contract and still have procurement take this long.

Government of the day (Martin's Liberals) split the acquisition (Sikorsky) and mission systems (General Dynamics) and the contracts made minimal provisions for who would actually lead (i.e. be responsible for) integration of the two.  Integration remains the long pole in the tent.  While Sikorsky and GD are certainly actors on the stage, the playwright was and remains Canada, in Right of the Queen.  Canada need look no father than the end of both arms to determine with which appendage they should point to/at...

:2c:

Regards
G2G

 

[Kirkhill]

So the RCN will be sailing with marinized tactical transports until they get all the boxes in the back to work together?  All they need is some more space on board ship to stow muddy boots.  >

 

[Lumber]

Government of the day (Martin's Liberals) split the acquisition (Sikorsky) and mission systems (General Dynamics) and the contracts made minimal provisions for who would actually lead (i.e. be responsible for) integration of the two.  Integration remains the long pole in the tent.  While Sikorsky and GD are certainly actors on the stage, the playwright was and remains Canada, in Right of the Queen.  Canada need look no father than the end of both arms to determine with which appendage they should point to/at...

:2c:

Regards
G2G

Understood, but it still took far too long to get bare-bone cyclones without the mission fit. If we we're happy to start getting a few equipment-less cyclones and wait a bit longer for the equipment, why didn't we the first batch in 2008 (or even 2010? 2012) instead of 2015.

 

[FSTO]

Every time I see a Merlin flying off the deck of an RN ship........................words cannot convey my anger at Jean Chretien...........

 

[Good2Golf]

Understood, but it still took far too long to get bare-bone cyclones without the mission fit. If we we're happy to start getting a few equipment-less cyclones and wait a bit longer for the equipment, why didn't we the first batch in 2008 (or even 2010? 2012) instead of 2015.

A business-minded person might think that once Sikorsky hit the maximum level of liquidated damages, they might hive (correctly) thought that any further delays come with no additional penalty, and the milestone payments for each airframe were probably written off by the shareholders to future years....i.e. no real (i.e. monetary) incentive to get them done any faster than would deliver the end product in final configuration.  :dunno: