CH-148 Cyclone Progress

[MarkOttawa]

Occam: Some timeline:

Plan to replace aging Sea Kings hits new snag
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/plan-to-replace-aging-sea-kings-hits-new-snag/article1809584/

Ottawa’s plans to get new helicopters to replace the decades-old Sea Kings have hit another round of delays, less than a month after the Auditor-General criticized the purchase for other problems.

This will be the third time that Sikorsky has fallen short of its promises in the $5.7-billion contract to provide 28 Cyclone helicopters to the Canadian Forces.

According to the original contract, Sikorsky was supposed to start delivering fully compliant helicopters in late 2008. However, shortly before the deadline, the government and the company agreed to a major contract amendment under which fully compliant helicopters would start being delivered in 2012.

To allow the Canadian Forces to begin training its helicopter crews, the government agreed at the time to start taking the delivery of a few “interim” aircraft on Nov. 30 of this year. The helicopters would not meet all the requirements for military missions, particularly in terms of flight endurance, but would be adequate for testing and evaluation.

On June 30, Sikorsky signed another deal with the government in which it was agreed the actual interim helicopter to be delivered on Nov. 30 would fall short on a number of otherpoints as well. In particular, the government and Sikorsky agreed the interim helicopters would not include all mission system software and would lack the ability to exchange tactical data with its accompanying ship.

Officials and experts have told The Globe and Mail that the Nov. 30 deadline will not be met despite the recently watered-down requirements for the interim aircraft. Sources said that the biggest obstacle to the first delivery is related to the certification of the aircraft, which might have been delayed by mechanical problems.

Sikorsky declined to comment about the latest delay…

Good earlier round-up article at Defense Industry Daily:
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Canadas-CH-148-Cyclones-Better-Late-Than-Never-05223/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Occam]

Geez, for the interim aircraft, they've gone with lesser engines, no mission system software and no Link-11.  Sounds like they've slapped a main and tail rotor onto a box containing a couple of radios.  ;D

 

[CEEBEE501]

Silly question, But I have herd that with the US if a company dose not deliver by the date or has vast delays, they have to pay fines, and will sometimes include some reduced price equipment, or even give extra at no cost. Not to sure about this correct me if I have it wrong.

So do we have the same clauses with companies or are we just left out to dry?

 

[Occam]

Nope, the same clauses and penalties are usually drawn into our contracts.  I don't recall an instance where we've actually enforced it, though - but I have heard of instances where other benefits are given to us in exchange for not enforcing it.

The other scenario that comes into play is DND making a change to the specs, which results in a delay in delivery but no penalty as the delay was caused by us.

 

[Klinkaroo]

Here are some of the benefits that Canada obtained when they signed the amended contract for the interim helicopters.

Terms of the Contract Amendment

By signing the June 30, 2010 contract amendment, both the Government and Sikorsky agreed that Canada would take delivery of six interim helicopters with a preliminary version of the mission software starting in November 2010, thereby allowing the DND/CF to proceed with operational testing and training activities. It is important to note that DND’s training timeline will not be delayed by this. However, in return for Canada’s agreement on this point, the following concessions were made by Sikorski:

    * Withdrawal of an existing Sikorsky arbitration claim;
    * Investment by Sikorsky in additional Industrial and Regional Benefits of $80 million;
    * Benefits on future maritime helicopter sales payable to Canada that could amount to more than US$30 million;
    * Restructuring the established milestone payment schedule and liquidated damages clause. Liquidated damages, if applicable, will be applied for failure to deliver interim helicopters starting in November 2010, and for failure to deliver the fully compliant helicopters beginning in June 2012;
    * Reduced interim helicopter in-service support rates until acceptance of the fully compliant helicopters in June 2012; and,
    * Extending the in-service support until March 2028.

These concessions result in a significant net benefit to Canada.

Ref:http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/medias-media/2010-07-25-00-eng.html

 

[MarkOttawa]

Gov't finally going to  show some...?

Decision to come in February on fines for late navy helicopters
http://thechronicleherald.ca/Canada/1223886.html

A federal decision on whether the U.S.-based manufacturer of Canada’s new fleet of navy helicopters will pay millions of dollars in fines for late delivery will be made next month.

A spokeswoman for Public Works Minister Rona Ambrose says Sikorsky’s request for Ottawa to excuse the latest delay for delivery of the Cyclones has been formally refused.

But the company has appealed the refusal and a senior civil servant will make the final call on whether it must pay $45,000 per day for up to 120 days of delay.

Sikorsky told the federal government on Nov. 22 that it wouldn’t meet its Nov. 30 deadline to begin delivering the early version of the fleet of maritime helicopters because of an issue "outside of its control." Sikorsky did not elaborate at the time.

Rebecca Thompson, Ambrose’s spokeswoman, says the director general of the Public Works and Government Services Department will decide on Sikorsky’s appeal in February.

The federal government originally ordered 28 Cyclones in 2004 with a delivery date of November 2008, but there have been delays in the more than $5-billion contract on at least two previous occasions.

Federal auditor general Sheila Fraser has criticized the procurement for its cost overruns and delays.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Caveat- I have no insider information on this process- I am about as far away from the MH project as you can be and still be in the CF.

Mark- let's say we hammer Sikorsky good... I mean real good.  Show them who really is the boss.

And then they decide that 28 helicopters are no longer worth the pain.  They return our $500 million and shut down the line.

Boy, we really showed them who the boss is then, huh?

The point, Mark, that I am gently trying to make is that this situation just might be a tad more complex then you are making it out to be.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Well, we got hooked buying a paper aircraft.  Not exactly brilliant procurement.  By the Liberal government with the CF's apparent acquiescence.  And  now we're well and truly in the corner.  Why even bother with penalties in a contract when it is impractical in practice to enforce them?

Mark
Ottawa

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Mark- you tell me.  You seem to be way smarter then everyone else in DND when comes to buying everything from fighters to helicopters...

Or perhaps, just perhaps, the real world is a more complex place than most people realize.

Just saying...

 

[MarkOttawa]

From Defense Industry Daily, last October:

Canada’s CH-148 Cyclones: Better Late Than Never? 
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Canadas-CH-148-Cyclones-Better-Late-Than-Never-05223/

...
Canada’s Maritime Helicopter Replacement Program has been a textbook military procurement program over its long history. Unfortunately, it has been a textbook example of what not to do. While Canada’s Sea King helicopter fleet aged and deteriorated to potentially dangerous levels, political pettiness and lack of concern turned a straightforward off-the-shelf buy into a 25+ year long odyssey of cancellations, lawsuits, rebids, and more. Eventually, the Canadian military settled on Sikorsky’s H-92 Superhawk as the basis of its new CH-148 Cyclone Maritime Helicopter, which will serve from the decks of Canada’s naval ships and bases.

The civilian S-92 has gone on to some commercial success. To date, however, Canada has been the H-92’s only military customer – with all of the associated issues one might expect around systems integration and conversion for naval operations. There are also deeper questions being raised concerning both the machine’s fitness, and DND’s conduct of the program as a whole...

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MarkOttawa]

About flipping time:

Ottawa to impose cash penalties on Sikorsky for helicopter delays
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/somnia/article1926793/

Ottawa’s patience has run its course as the federal government is set to impose penalties of up to $8-million against Sikorsky for the latest delays in the delivery of a new fleet of maritime helicopters.

The aircraft manufacturer is facing a financial hit after failing to meet a schedule that already has been pushed back from the original 2008 deadline. The amount of the penalty is largely symbolic, representing up to 0.15 per cent of the $5.7-billion contract, but the move highlights Ottawa’s decision to take a tougher stand against the U.S.-based company...

According to the original contract, Sikorsky was supposed to start delivering fully compliant helicopters in late 2008. Shortly before that deadline, the government and the company agreed to a major contract amendment under which fully compliant helicopters would start being delivered in 2012.

To allow the Canadian Forces to begin training its helicopter crews, the government agreed at the time to take the delivery on Nov. 30 of last year of six “interim” aircraft, which would offer reduced capabilities in terms of performance and software.

However, Sikorsky has also failed to meet that timeline, citing a problem detected during testing...

In a recent regulatory filing, Sikorsky said the first helicopter would be delivered within the first quarter of this year, meaning by the end of this month. However, Ms. Bétoté Akwa stated, “It is expected that the first interim helicopter will be delivered in spring, 2011,” which provides a longer timetable to the company.

Auditor-General Sheila Fraser criticized the purchase of the new fleet of helicopters in a report released on Oct. 26. It said the selection of the Cyclone was a high-risk proposition given that Sikorsky was still developing the aircraft at the time of the purchase. Since then, the cost of the project has gone up by $150-million.

“In our opinion, National Defence did not adequately assess the developmental nature of this aircraft, and the risks related to cost, and the complexity of the required technical modifications were underestimated,” the report said. “In addition, the original delivery schedule (48 months after contract award) and the identified risk related to the potential for delays were not consistent with the developmental nature of this acquisition.”

Ms. Fraser said that the government will pay up to $168-million to keep the Sea Kings in the air between 2008 and 2014.

One more time: NEVER BUY A PAPER AIRCRAFT.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[WingsofFury]

One more time: NEVER BUY A PAPER AIRCRAFT.

Mark
Ottawa

How about an even better lesson...don't cancel contracts which are already in place with firm dates for delivery.

 

[Good2Golf]

How about an even better lesson...don't cancel contracts which are already in place with firm dates for delivery.

...but that was only one part of a three-fold program, cancel: helicopters; NAFTA and the GST....oh wait...  :-\

 

[prima6]

Last I heard there might be one delivered mid April (806).  I even saw pictures of it painted (though incorrectly)  .  Maybe it will beat me to Shearwater this APS.

 

[observor 69]

How about an even better lesson...don't cancel contracts which are already in place with firm dates for delivery.

What contract? Agreement to purchase, yes!

What firm date to delivery? Haven't most of the major equipment delivery dates been pushed forward?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Baden guy-
The EH-101 contract that as was killed by the Liberals in 1993.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Last I heard there might be one delivered mid April (806).  I even saw pictures of it painted (though incorrectly)  .  Maybe it will beat me to Shearwater this APS.

You haven't got to YAW yet?  They are sure getting their pound of fleah out of you...

 

[observor 69]

Baden guy-
The EH-101 contract that as was killed by the Liberals in 1993.

I knew there was some reason why I shouldn't have pulled the trigger on that msg.  :-[

 

[prima6]

You haven't got to YAW yet?  They are sure getting their pound of fleah out of you...

Nope, July now.  OTU in Sept I hope.  I was hoping to escape writing the new course... 

 

[observor 69]

One found using Google images.
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Canada---Air/Sikorsky-CH-148-Cyclone/1417872/L/