CF Reserves VS Other nations Reserves.

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Armymedic:  we'll have to agree to disagree...my opinion is based on dealing with the same group as a planner confined to Kabul (along experience with CFC-A and other units on a previous tour)!  However, as a caveat, I wasn't as close to them as you are...

Lawndart:

We're busily comparing apples and oranges.  The US is on a war footing and is funding its forces and conducting its deployments accordingly.  The US Reserve Force underwent a major restructure some time ago designed to bring it closer to the Regular Army's standards.  Having said this, the US is still deploying its ANG in "lower risk" roles (by and large - there are exceptions).

Canada has not done this.  You mention that our Reserve is operating at a company or lower level.  Heck, our entire Army has based its whole "managed readiness" plan on sub-units!  We are not going to see regimental or higher deployments in the near future. The shortcomings of the Reserve Force, particularly with regards to readiness and unit level training are the direct result of the Army's priorities.  Until they change - perhaps driven by more urgent operational considerations - it is almost pointless to compare the US and Canadian reserve systems.

Cheers,

TR

 

[Gunner]

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is anymore as it seems simply to be focussed on dumping on our reserve force (didn't the same thing happen in the CIC thread?).  

The fact of the matter is the only major "combat" scenario that the Canadian Forces has been involved in since Korea was Medak.  2 PPCLI's sub-units consisted of up to 75% Reserve.  These Reservists were not all infantry trained, rather they also included armour and artillery soldiers performing infantry roles.  Sure the nucleus of the unit was Regular Force, it was 2 PPCLI that was deploying.  What's the point trying to be made?  Did all the soldiers of 2 PPCLI do their job or not?  By all accounts, they did.  So Reserves can and have deployed overseas in combat scenarios.

Can a Reserve unit be activated, brought up to strength, trained collectively and individually and sent into a combat scenario?  Well, isn't this what we did in WWI and WWII?  They seem to have gotten the job done.  Can we do it in the 21st Century?  Sure we could, but why would you justify the expense just to be able to prove that you could?

So the Reserves can and could deploy individually, or by unit if the Canadian Forces wanted.  Do the Reserves have problems?  Sure they do, as LawnDart mentioned, they are spread too thin, in too many units, with too little equipment, too few resources, a huge growing rift between regular and reserve capabilities, etc, etc, etc.

Finally, I find using Matt Stopford's situation to make a point about the Reserves to be highly questionable.

Cheers,

 

[noneck]

LAWNDART said If you were in "Fighting 8", you'd be well aware that the most celebrated Section Commander of the night, as well as the WO were old Germany Pats from the 2nd Battalion

I have never heard the term"Fighting 8" and  neither have two of my best friends Rob D or Tony S and they were in 8 Pl, while I was in 7 Pl.

Rod Dearing was probably in Germany with 2 VP , but WO Desbarres 8Pl WO, was from 2 NSH in Cape Breton and I know he wasn't an Ex Patricia. He was still the best WO, Reserve or Reg I have ever worked alongside, he was a used car salesman  by civy trade.

Every member of that Bn group (Reg or Res)did their jobs during the Medak Pocket Operation, from the guys in the line to the maintainers fixing those overworked tracks back in Sveti Rok. I don't think we need to bash around that Reg Vs Res topic anymore, it's getting really old. In todays CF each of those elements relies on the other and the truth of the matter wether we like it or not it is not going to change. So bend or break but get over it.

Noneck

 

[Haggis]

Rod Dearing was probably in Germany with 2 VP , but WO Desbarres 8Pl WO, was from 2 NSH in Cape Breton and I know he wasn't an Ex Patricia.

I have met both Desbarres brothers and have had the priviledge of being instructed by one on my 6B many snows ago.

In my earlier post I stated that the Reservists in the Republic of Georgia easily held thier own with Regular soldiers and SF trained troops from several different Mediterranen, Baltic and eastern European nations.

I should mention that the only other completely Reserve contingent was a British TA section from The Highlanders and a British TA captain acting as a Company 2IC.  Every TA soldier on that ex had at least one operational tour.  They and the Canadians were often looked towards as "The Standard" in terms of professionalism.

IMO the best of the non NATO soldiers hailed from Lithuania (parachute infantry conscripts with a Regular Army squad leader and 2IC) and Romania (about 25 regular Army mountain troops.  Romania had hosted this exercise in 2001.).  Both served in platoons with Canadian platoon 2ICs.

 

[pbi]

Lawndart:

PBI, if you're trying to get a rise out of me by comparing my critical comments to those directed against the Airborne after Somalia, it won't work.

No: I wasn't interested in getting a rise out of you-I was trying to show that the tactic you were using was as bankrupt as the slamming of the entire Airborne Regiment for the actions of sickies like Matchee and Brown.

You, and most of the others on this site have relied on some anecdotes regarding the positive way the CF have been recieved by other forces, usually US. That's fine, but fair is fair, and if you do so, then don't complain when I bring up some negative points, like the one linking a group of reservists to the poisoning of Matt Stopford

Well...it really is a bit more than "some anecdotes", as I tried to point out in my earlier post. Against which, you produce the still (IMHO) somewhat murky Stopford situation. The one incident doesn't really outweigh the others, since the Stopford incident can only reflect on a very tiny numbers of the Reservists who have served overseas.

One of the things I recall, is that it is very unusual for staff from foreign armies to openly criticize visiting forces from an allied power. You'll see the same thing on courses (c'mon, when was the last time you saw a Botswani officer fail a Canadian 6A or JM course, or a Canadian/Panamanian fail a US Ranger course?).

I'm not naive either, and neither are many of the other posters here. I wasn't referring to BS, politically correct "for public consumption" comments that don't mean anything and are just fluff. I wouldn't waste peoples' time with relating crap like that. I'm talking about a much wider range of unsolicited, genuine comment, from Active Army, ARNG, USAR, USMC and USMC(R). Anybody who has been in since before coffee break can tell the difference between BS and genuine professional praise. I'm not saying (nor, as far as I can tell, is anybody else here..) that our Army Reserve doesn't have problems. I lived them from 1974 to 1982 as a Res NCO, from 1986 to 1989 on unit RSS, at Area HQ level and for the last three years firefighting Res problems in a Res CBG HQ. Some of the problems are systemic and still poisonous, but some have been fixed over the years. It is not really all the pathetic, gloom and doom that you seem to believe.

If that can happen to Regs, then I think it's a little disingenuous to say the least, for us to propogate this myth that CF Reserve troops are superior to the American's.

You missed the point I was trying to make. I was not claiming that our Army Res soldiers are "superior" to the Americans. My point is that, given all of their limitations (almost NONE of which are faced by any US land force reserve, whether Army or USMC), our Res soldiers do pretty well in comparison. That's all.

Cheers.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

There are dinosaurs on both sides of the Reg\ Reserve fence. They will never admit to the benefit each organization provides to the other, no matter what it is. They will continue to slag each other, til their dying breath, no matter the evidence to the contrary.

As far as how our Reserves stack up against someone else? Who cares. Just do the best you can, train as hard as you can, excel in everything you do, then try to do it better. Thirst for knowledge. Be professional. Don't worry about the other guy or the nay sayers. Just have pride in the fact that you gave 125% and you are better for it.

 

[Acorn]

Rod Dearing was probably in Germany with 2 VP

Rod was in 2 VP. He got there in 87-ish, IIRC.

Acorn