CELE to do CAP this year?

[Hobbit]

Hello everyone,

I am currently at St-Jean doing my BMOQ and like usual crazy rumors are flying around. This latest one actually pertains to me so now I am curious. There is a rumor going around that starting this year CELE Air Officers will have to do CAP? Has anyone heard about this and can either confirm or deny it?

Thanks

 

[wannabe SF member]

Quite true. I have one in my section right now.

 

[MedCorps]

I also saw them on the "CAP eligible" list a few weeks ago.

MC

 

[Hobbit]

CAP eligiable, does that mean they all do CAP or just some? Because in January on my SEM's training schedule for me it only had SLT and CELE Mod 1&2 as training after BMOQ. When did they start putting us on CAP?

 

[Joesph_B]

I disagree with the decision to make CAP required for CELE.  If a CELE wanted to fill in for a Signals Officer, they would have signed up as a Signals Officer.

Also, if a situation comes up to be deployed in an operational environment, you gain more than enough training on pre-deployment screening.  This is nothing more than a pissing contest between Airforce and Army signals and the new recruits are getting caught in the middle.

 

[PuckChaser]

I disagree with the decision to make CAP required for CELE.  If a CELE wanted to fill in for a Signals Officer, they would have signed up as a Signals Officer.

Also, if a situation comes up to be deployed in an operational environment, you gain more than enough training on pre-deployment screening.  This is nothing more than a pissing contest between Airforce and Army signals and the new recruits are getting caught in the middle.

Preemployment is not the time to be learning new things unless its theatre specific TTPs. Welcome the world of the C& E branch, where cele types are posted to land operational units. Is CAP really that hard? Doubtful.

 

[aesop081]

and the new recruits are getting caught in the middle.

:crybaby:

The Queen is still paying them and their time is still pensionable.

 

[jeffb]

Preemployment is not the time to be learning new things unless its theatre specific TTPs. Welcome the world of the C& E branch, where cele types are posted to land operational units. Is CAP really that hard? Doubtful.

+1. BMOQ-L (CAP) sucks at the time but it's only 10 weeks. The skills you learn on it are really an extension of what you have learned on BMOQ and you WILL be better prepared to do your job if for no other reason then it will give you a better appreciation of battle procedure and what life is like for the Army types.

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

I disagree with the decision to make CAP required for CELE.  If a CELE wanted to fill in for a Signals Officer, they would have signed up as a Signals Officer.

Also, if a situation comes up to be deployed in an operational environment, you gain more than enough training on pre-deployment screening.  This is nothing more than a pissing contest between Airforce and Army signals and the new recruits are getting caught in the middle.

So what happens when as all things in the Signals Corps the two trades amalgamate. It happened on the army side in the 90's with the RTOP and RADOP trades (ok so RADOP swallowed the RTOPS) and again with the RCAF TELOPS and the RADOPS to become sigops ... Long story short situations change now find the "so what" and carry on.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

I disagree with the decision to make CAP required for CELE.  If a CELE wanted to fill in for a Signals Officer, they would have signed up as a Signals Officer.

Also, if a situation comes up to be deployed in an operational environment, you gain more than enough training on pre-deployment screening.  This is nothing more than a pissing contest between Airforce and Army signals and the new recruits are getting caught in the middle.

Who cares, you are told you will do that course.... so you will do that course..... now move on....

And pre-deployment is not the place to pick new skills unless they are theatre specific...

 

[Joesph_B]

Who cares, you are told you will do that course.... so you will do that course..... now move on....

And pre-deployment is not the place to pick new skills unless they are theatre specific...

Or just wait two years until the decision is reversed.  I am grandfathered so I don't have to worry. 

If you look at the most recent consolidation with sig op, line man, tech...  The air force and navy stayed far away from the transition.  Techs stayed on their own in the air force.  Expect this trend to continue.

 

[George Wallace]

.........  If a CELE wanted to fill in for a Signals Officer, they would have signed up as a Signals Officer.

Am I wrong, or are not Signals Officers CELE?

Next point:  If you ever intend to make the CF a career and are likely then to deploy to a hostile environment, be in an actual position where you may have to "LEAD" people; then CAP, as you refer to it, is something that you should have the priveledged opportunity to attend and experience.




OH!  And if you think that Pre-deployment training will give you all that you need to know.......WRONG.  You should know that already, and have the proper experience and skills before pre-deployment training......Pre-deployment Training is mostly refresher and testing to ensure that you are ready to deploy.  You are not going to get LEADERSHIP training on Pre-deployment training.  That is really too late to find out that you are not a leader, but a momma's boy/girl who cries because the CF has made him/her do something "Army" like to give them the skillst to stay alive.

 

[jeffb]

To further what Mr Wallace said, you are thinking about this all wrong. Instead of thinking how bad it is that you have to do CAP (it's actually called BMOQ-L by the way), look at it as an opportunity to gain some very useful skills that you those going before you did not have the opportunity to acquire. There is no such thing in the CF as a bad course. There are courses that are bad while you are doing them but anything that gives you additional hard skills while giving you a chance to test your intestinal fortitude is a good thing in the long run.

 

[PuckChaser]

Or just wait two years until the decision is reversed.  I am grandfathered so I don't have to worry. 

If you look at the most recent consolidation with sig op, line man, tech...  The air force and navy stayed far away from the transition.  Techs stayed on their own in the air force.  Expect this trend to continue.

Good, we can kick the CELE and ATIS pers out of the branch and they can fend for themselves. The new rule is you do CAP. Don't want to do CAP? Say goodbye to all those LDA postings at field units.

Really though, why do we need 2 seperate trades to be a Sigs O? Seems like a duplication of effort, considering all the CELE Os I've seen working at JSR in positions typically reserved for Sigs O.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I see a solution.

Change CAP to COTPYMHTCDOYM (Common Officer Training Phase You May Have To Complete Depending On Your MOSID) or something....then no one can point to the "Army" in CAP and cry fowl.

Also, COTPYMHTCDOYM is an easy acronym to remember.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Good, we can kick the CELE and ATIS pers out of the branch and they can fend for themselves. The new rule is you do CAP. Don't want to do CAP? Say goodbye to all those LDA postings at field units.

Really though, why do we need 2 seperate trades to be a Sigs O? Seems like a duplication of effort, considering all the CELE Os I've seen working at JSR in positions typically reserved for Sigs O.

You're only looking at it from a Sig O perspective though.  I wonder how well a Sig O who was posted to Army-only billets would fair out as the A6 at North Bay or one of the busier Wings. 

 

[PuckChaser]

I'm more pointing out why there is 2 separate trades that basically do the same thing. Heck, change Sig O to CELE for all I care, but we're wasting effort training to 2 standards when we could simply just make one signals officer. I doubt it will ever change, they're happy screwing the NCMs around with amalgamation.

I don't think being the A6 at North Bay would be any harder than the J6 in any large deployed organization. Only differences would be the processes to get things done, and some of the material handled is going to be specific to the Air/Land element, but people with degrees should pick that stuff up pretty quickly.

 

[George Wallace]

Really though, why do we need 2 seperate trades to be a Sigs O? Seems like a duplication of effort, considering all the CELE Os I've seen working at JSR in positions typically reserved for Sigs O.

Umm?  Could it be that Radio Waves in the Army are not like those in the Airforce or Navy?  Perhaps they skip differently?  >

 

[211RadOp]

So what happens when as all things in the Signals Corps the two trades amalgamate. It happened on the army side in the 90's with the RTOP and RADOP trades (ok so RADOP swallowed the RTOPS) and again with the RCAF TELOPS and the RADOPS to become sigops ... Long story short situations change now find the "so what" and carry on.

RTOP was a PRes trade, and they learned both the Rad Op and Tel Op job, so they were not "swallowed" by the Rad Op trade.  Tel Ops and Rad Ops were combined in 2000, and Tel Op was not an RCAF trade (or at that time Air Command).  There were a very large number of Tel Ops wearing the Land DEU.

 

[211RadOp]

Am I wrong, or are not Signals Officers CELE?

CELE (Air) (MOSID 00340-01) is to the RCAF as Sig O (MOSID 00341-01) is to the Army.