CDN Hostage James Loney Rescued by SAS in Iraq
- Thread starter vonGarvin
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Have I just not been paying attention or was this the only rescue or attempted of hostages in Iraq? Have there not been a number of other hostages taken, ie: press, and other workers.....It does seem strange these fella's ranked a rescue
BTW, I agree, they should have been left to there own devices. I am sure the hostage takers were open to discussions with other devoutly religious persons.
BTW, I agree, they should have been left to there own devices. I am sure the hostage takers were open to discussions with other devoutly religious persons.
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Franko and Britney very good points the both of you made and I understand where you are both comming from, but I still think that if a bill was sent to them for a six-figure rescue op that maybe it would give a definate wake-up call to organizations like the Christian Peacemakers. Maybe by billing them for the rescue operation, it would make them realize that their actions have consequences when they are irresponsable enough to think that "God will save them" when they end up in trouble, as this seems to be their mandate whenever they send their people off to certain "select" high-risk countries.
M
monika
Guest
I know that Foreign Affairs issues "Travel Advisories" warning people not to go to certain parts of the globe. Has the government ever outright banned Canadians from travelling to certain antions, a la US/Cuba?
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William Webb Ellis said:
As a conspiracy theory it isn’t without merit, but there are a few factors working against it.
- I would think that all the hostages are considered a liability to the UK and US efforts. The news organizations can cover the story with very little expense: the kidnappers provide footage of the hostages and the local media provides interviews with the families; leaving several broadcast leads being constantly about how unviable the conflict in Iraq is.
- There would be an equal amount of good press for the US/UK coalition regardless of the particulars of any coalition hostages rescued.
- The murder of the US hostage by the kidnappers does not translate into increased support for the coalition, so if they could have performed a rescue earlier they would have. The reports list new information as the breakthrough that led to the rescue – not PR considerations.
As for just leaving them… - The advisory was for Canadians not to go to Iraq (or to leave immediately if they were already there), which leaves it up to the company they worked/volunteered for to get them released, the same as you would expect if they were working for an oil company. I don’t mind some minimal services being provided by the Canadian government, but that is all.
I prefer the conspiracy theory where they had hoped to be kidnapped to further their goal of undermining the US/UK coalition – martyr wannabes of the Human Shield variety.
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Check this one out:
Former hostage 'reacquainted with freedom'
Loney thanks U.K. soldiers, Canadian officials for rescue
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060327.wxhostage27/BNStory/National/
At least the Canadian guy is being grateful to the right people.
Former hostage 'reacquainted with freedom'
Loney thanks U.K. soldiers, Canadian officials for rescue
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060327.wxhostage27/BNStory/National/
At least the Canadian guy is being grateful to the right people.
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I hear all of ya' saying we should make CPT pay the bill, but if you believe what the media are saying, the Task Force Black that the Brits set up just after a couple of UK hostages in 2005 was doing int work not just on hostages, but on Iraqi war criminals.
If that's the case, do you bill CPT just for the car rentals & chopper fuel for their rescue, or do we figure out a percentage of the int work being done by TF Black to charge as overhead?
And as for insurance before they go - riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. The groups'll be fundraising just to cover that.
BTW, thought you woudn't mind another perspective on thanking the troops...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1740358,00.html
"(D)o those responsible for such rescues get upset when hostages appear ungrateful? The SAS are reputed to be a pretty tough bunch. Perhaps they don't feel too wounded by Kember's supposed snub."
If that's the case, do you bill CPT just for the car rentals & chopper fuel for their rescue, or do we figure out a percentage of the int work being done by TF Black to charge as overhead?
And as for insurance before they go - riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. The groups'll be fundraising just to cover that.
BTW, thought you woudn't mind another perspective on thanking the troops...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1740358,00.html
"(D)o those responsible for such rescues get upset when hostages appear ungrateful? The SAS are reputed to be a pretty tough bunch. Perhaps they don't feel too wounded by Kember's supposed snub."
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http://www.torontosun.ca/News/Columnists/Worthington_Peter/2006/03/27/1507469-sun.html
By PETER WORTHINGTON
PEACEMAKERS ARE MISGUIDED INGRATES
Pardon me if I don't cheer for the three survivors of the Christian Peacemaker Teams (CPT) freed in Iraq, whom I consider misguided, arrogant and foolish and who cause more problems than they solve.
Of course, I never wished them dead and, like everyone else, am relieved they were rescued from a situation they brought on themselves. Four of them were kidnapped in Baghdad Nov. 26. Their American colleague was murdered because of his nationality.
Nice guys.
Not all of the 400 or so who've been kidnapped in Iraq escaped so lightly. In Sault Ste. Marie, Jim Loney's mother calls his rescue "a miracle," while Loney's pastor says, "God saved them."
Sorry, folks, it was soldiers who saved them -- the very soldiers scorned by the CPT.
CPT co-director Doug Pritchard's reaction is both idiotic and churlish. "They knew their only protection was in the power of the love of God and of their Iraqi international co-workers," he said.
What nonsense.
Their salvation was American, British and Canadian soldiers, working with the RCMP, who risked their lives to rescue these clots who seem to despise their liberators.
Mr. Pritchard added: "We believe that the illegal occupation of Iraq by multinational forces is the root cause of the insecurity which led to this kidnapping, and so much pain and suffering in Iraq."
Not a word of thanks or gratitude to the soldiers who carried guns and were prepared to shoot or be shot to save them.
Not a word about Saddam Hussein, who, more than any, is the "root cause" of misery in Iraq. Not a word about the suffering Saddam inflicted on Iraqis -- the mass graves, genocidal bio-chemical attacks on Kurds, wars against neighbouring countries, torturing Iraqis, homicides and fear that was imposed.
Christian Peacemakers didn't protest the 30 years of Saddam's imposed "insecurity ... pain and suffering." Why?
Because they'd have been gobbled up, that's why.
In their initial reaction, Loney's family expressed sorrow that Fox had been murdered, but "we don't bear any grudge or ill-feeling towards (the captors)."
Oh? What sort of people are these "Christian" zealots? Do they suppose the Swords of Righteousness Brigade assassins who kidnapped their loved ones are just ordinary Iraqi patriots who want to live quiet lives and praise Allah?
The CPT philosophy is selective -- and oriented towards anti-Americanism and anti-Western values wherever possible. Great injustices are tolerated, but American involvement must be protested, just as they protest Israel's defensive measures.
CPT's motto of "Get in the Way" boomeranged for them in Iraq. In Canada, CPT protests mostly on behalf of Indians in disputes in Ontario, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and B.C. Any opposition is branded "racist."
SHOULD HOSTAGES PAY?
Now that the two Canadians and a Brit are rescued, one can safely note that CPT's presence in Iraq encourages violence, resistance and even suicide bombings against the "occupiers" who are their rescuers. That verges on betraying their country.
A CTV poll asked the question whether hostages should be required to pay the costs of their rescue if they were kidnapped in a country they'd been advised not to visit. Of the first 6,479 responses, 74% said they should pay, 26% said they shouldn't have to.
On a CBC radio phone-in show, a caller opined that the hostage ordeal was phony and that the U.S. military had the individuals in custody so as to garner publicity when they were released. The host didn't demur -- par for CBC.
Now we'll have to endure the inevitable book honouring the Christian Peacemakers and a movie glamourizing them. But reality remains: They are imprudent and foolish pacifists consumed with their own righteousness who depend on those they disparage to rescue them when they get into trouble.
By PETER WORTHINGTON
PEACEMAKERS ARE MISGUIDED INGRATES
Pardon me if I don't cheer for the three survivors of the Christian Peacemaker Teams (CPT) freed in Iraq, whom I consider misguided, arrogant and foolish and who cause more problems than they solve.
Of course, I never wished them dead and, like everyone else, am relieved they were rescued from a situation they brought on themselves. Four of them were kidnapped in Baghdad Nov. 26. Their American colleague was murdered because of his nationality.
Nice guys.
Not all of the 400 or so who've been kidnapped in Iraq escaped so lightly. In Sault Ste. Marie, Jim Loney's mother calls his rescue "a miracle," while Loney's pastor says, "God saved them."
Sorry, folks, it was soldiers who saved them -- the very soldiers scorned by the CPT.
CPT co-director Doug Pritchard's reaction is both idiotic and churlish. "They knew their only protection was in the power of the love of God and of their Iraqi international co-workers," he said.
What nonsense.
Their salvation was American, British and Canadian soldiers, working with the RCMP, who risked their lives to rescue these clots who seem to despise their liberators.
Mr. Pritchard added: "We believe that the illegal occupation of Iraq by multinational forces is the root cause of the insecurity which led to this kidnapping, and so much pain and suffering in Iraq."
Not a word of thanks or gratitude to the soldiers who carried guns and were prepared to shoot or be shot to save them.
Not a word about Saddam Hussein, who, more than any, is the "root cause" of misery in Iraq. Not a word about the suffering Saddam inflicted on Iraqis -- the mass graves, genocidal bio-chemical attacks on Kurds, wars against neighbouring countries, torturing Iraqis, homicides and fear that was imposed.
Christian Peacemakers didn't protest the 30 years of Saddam's imposed "insecurity ... pain and suffering." Why?
Because they'd have been gobbled up, that's why.
In their initial reaction, Loney's family expressed sorrow that Fox had been murdered, but "we don't bear any grudge or ill-feeling towards (the captors)."
Oh? What sort of people are these "Christian" zealots? Do they suppose the Swords of Righteousness Brigade assassins who kidnapped their loved ones are just ordinary Iraqi patriots who want to live quiet lives and praise Allah?
The CPT philosophy is selective -- and oriented towards anti-Americanism and anti-Western values wherever possible. Great injustices are tolerated, but American involvement must be protested, just as they protest Israel's defensive measures.
CPT's motto of "Get in the Way" boomeranged for them in Iraq. In Canada, CPT protests mostly on behalf of Indians in disputes in Ontario, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and B.C. Any opposition is branded "racist."
SHOULD HOSTAGES PAY?
Now that the two Canadians and a Brit are rescued, one can safely note that CPT's presence in Iraq encourages violence, resistance and even suicide bombings against the "occupiers" who are their rescuers. That verges on betraying their country.
A CTV poll asked the question whether hostages should be required to pay the costs of their rescue if they were kidnapped in a country they'd been advised not to visit. Of the first 6,479 responses, 74% said they should pay, 26% said they shouldn't have to.
On a CBC radio phone-in show, a caller opined that the hostage ordeal was phony and that the U.S. military had the individuals in custody so as to garner publicity when they were released. The host didn't demur -- par for CBC.
Now we'll have to endure the inevitable book honouring the Christian Peacemakers and a movie glamourizing them. But reality remains: They are imprudent and foolish pacifists consumed with their own righteousness who depend on those they disparage to rescue them when they get into trouble.
ArmyRick
Army.ca Veteran
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Here is my 2 cents...
To the US, Brits and Canuck forces involved in the rescue of the hostages, Bravo and well done
To Mr Loney, let your actions and future words be the real tone of your appreciation. In other words, stay the f&ck away from IRAQ, as the journalist I listened to yesterday on the news said, it was very arrogantly naive of the CPT to go ther in the first place.
To the Christian Peacemaking Teams, GET THE F#CK out of here and live in the real world. I HAVE NOTHING BUT DISGUST FOR YOUR RIDICOLOUS COMMENTS ABOUT HOW THE HOSTAGES WERE FREED AND ITS THE COALITION FORCES FAULT THE KIDNAPPINGS TOOK PLACE.
Lets get real, you sent your people over there without any real understanding of what was going on. Some facts..
(1) The world has GOOD and EVIL people
(2) The US and UK are NOT there to control Iraq for their own purposes, this is a country that has for long time been waiting to blow up. Sadam did not keep peace, he kept Oppression...
(3) Wishing the world was free of violence and trajedy will not solve anything, Deeds not words as the JTF2 say.
Rant Out
To the US, Brits and Canuck forces involved in the rescue of the hostages, Bravo and well done
To Mr Loney, let your actions and future words be the real tone of your appreciation. In other words, stay the f&ck away from IRAQ, as the journalist I listened to yesterday on the news said, it was very arrogantly naive of the CPT to go ther in the first place.
To the Christian Peacemaking Teams, GET THE F#CK out of here and live in the real world. I HAVE NOTHING BUT DISGUST FOR YOUR RIDICOLOUS COMMENTS ABOUT HOW THE HOSTAGES WERE FREED AND ITS THE COALITION FORCES FAULT THE KIDNAPPINGS TOOK PLACE.
Lets get real, you sent your people over there without any real understanding of what was going on. Some facts..
(1) The world has GOOD and EVIL people
(2) The US and UK are NOT there to control Iraq for their own purposes, this is a country that has for long time been waiting to blow up. Sadam did not keep peace, he kept Oppression...
(3) Wishing the world was free of violence and trajedy will not solve anything, Deeds not words as the JTF2 say.
Rant Out
- Reaction score
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- Points
- 1,060
Reproduced under the Fair Dealings Provisions fo the Copyright Act.
from Canoe: http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnists/Robinson_Ian/2006/04/01/pf-1515910.html
Looks like a Calgary Sun article, but that is not explicit in the header..
April 2, 2006
Pacifist group revealed as moral imbeciles
By Ian Robinson
When the three Western hostages were rescued by coalition forces in Iraq last week and returned to Canada, was I the only one who was disappointed?
Was I the only one who thought: Dear Lord. Is THIS what all the fuss was about?
These smarmy, international busybodies, the Gladys Kravitzes of the Iraq occupation, peering out at the world from behind the curtains with their pursed little disapproving lips?
These sanctimonious, reality challenged little creeps?
And even after the release, the organization to which they're attached was still taking metaphorical shots at the coalition of troops who rescued them.
"As peacemakers who hold firm to our commitment to non-violence, we are also deeply grateful that they fired no shots to free our colleagues," their press release said.
What would the hostages have done if shots had been fired? Voluntarily returned to captivity?
If ever a group wasn't worth the effort and risk to free them, it's these guys.
NOTE TO CHRISTIAN PEACEMAKER TEAMS: For the love of the God you claim to follow, hire a public relations consultant.
Otherwise, the next freed hostage of yours might turn up and say what James Loney did, that: "After this, I'm going to disappear for a little while into a different kind of abyss -- an abyss of love."
An abyss of love. Loney, you silver-tongued devil, you.
A report out of Baghdad also indicated these self-involved, self-righteous morons declined to provide valuable intelligence about their kidnappers to the British, U.S. and Canadian soldiers who saved their lives!
See, members of Christian Peacemaker Teams are pacifists and they don't co-operate with men with guns who might use the information to track down kidnappers and/or terrorists and shoot them in the head until they agree to stop kidnapping and/or terrorizing people.
Pacifists don't believe in violence and refuse to use it or abet its use. Pacifists are therefore moral imbeciles.
They're like the guy at the party who won't kick in for the pizza but sneaks a slice when he thinks nobody's looking.
Pacifists are the same.
They're thieves who enjoy the protection offered by those they morally despise but aren't willing to get their hands dirty themselves.
They walk down our safe Canadian streets, enjoying that safety.
Never mind the only reason our streets are safe is because criminals are hunted down by men and women called "police officers."
Criminals don't co-operate with police and go meekly to the holding cells because criminals are nice people. They co-operate with police because if they don't, they'll get pepper-sprayed in the face or thumped with a baton or shot in the head, depending upon the degree of their non-co-operation.
We have a functioning government in this country even when the Liberals are in power --although it pains me greatly to admit it,
Taxes are paid and used to fund various projects which are, technically, for the good of all.
I personally would not volunteer to pay income taxes because I am a greedy libertarian.
I pay my taxes because if I don't, men with guns in the service of the state will come to my house and drag my sorry butt to the slammer for evading income taxes.
We live in a civilized society -- in which wimpy pacifist losers can walk around safely -- because we live under constant threat of socially sanctioned government violence.
It's the reason I don't speed (too much), rob banks, use heroin, enslave the weak so I never have to do my own laundry again, or hunt down the teachers who annoyed me in high school to cover them in Hershey's chocolate syrup and stake them out on the nearest red ant hill in the hot sun.
(Yeah. Right. Like you've never thought about what you'd do if Parliament accidentally repealed the Criminal Code for a day.)
Pacifists such as Loney have never accomplished anything in this world and never will, and they've certainly never created what they purport to love: Peace.
They believe violence never solves anything when, in fact, the judicious use of violence solves many of the large problems.
South Korea is free because men -- real men, not pacifists -- sacrificed to stop the North Koreans from enslaving it. Ditto for Nazi and Japanese aggression during the Second World War. Violence ended black slavery on this continent.
All of those achievements were won by men with guns, not the wimps on the sidelines praying and feeling smug about occupying the moral high ground.
from Canoe: http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnists/Robinson_Ian/2006/04/01/pf-1515910.html
Looks like a Calgary Sun article, but that is not explicit in the header..
April 2, 2006
Pacifist group revealed as moral imbeciles
By Ian Robinson
When the three Western hostages were rescued by coalition forces in Iraq last week and returned to Canada, was I the only one who was disappointed?
Was I the only one who thought: Dear Lord. Is THIS what all the fuss was about?
These smarmy, international busybodies, the Gladys Kravitzes of the Iraq occupation, peering out at the world from behind the curtains with their pursed little disapproving lips?
These sanctimonious, reality challenged little creeps?
And even after the release, the organization to which they're attached was still taking metaphorical shots at the coalition of troops who rescued them.
"As peacemakers who hold firm to our commitment to non-violence, we are also deeply grateful that they fired no shots to free our colleagues," their press release said.
What would the hostages have done if shots had been fired? Voluntarily returned to captivity?
If ever a group wasn't worth the effort and risk to free them, it's these guys.
NOTE TO CHRISTIAN PEACEMAKER TEAMS: For the love of the God you claim to follow, hire a public relations consultant.
Otherwise, the next freed hostage of yours might turn up and say what James Loney did, that: "After this, I'm going to disappear for a little while into a different kind of abyss -- an abyss of love."
An abyss of love. Loney, you silver-tongued devil, you.
A report out of Baghdad also indicated these self-involved, self-righteous morons declined to provide valuable intelligence about their kidnappers to the British, U.S. and Canadian soldiers who saved their lives!
See, members of Christian Peacemaker Teams are pacifists and they don't co-operate with men with guns who might use the information to track down kidnappers and/or terrorists and shoot them in the head until they agree to stop kidnapping and/or terrorizing people.
Pacifists don't believe in violence and refuse to use it or abet its use. Pacifists are therefore moral imbeciles.
They're like the guy at the party who won't kick in for the pizza but sneaks a slice when he thinks nobody's looking.
Pacifists are the same.
They're thieves who enjoy the protection offered by those they morally despise but aren't willing to get their hands dirty themselves.
They walk down our safe Canadian streets, enjoying that safety.
Never mind the only reason our streets are safe is because criminals are hunted down by men and women called "police officers."
Criminals don't co-operate with police and go meekly to the holding cells because criminals are nice people. They co-operate with police because if they don't, they'll get pepper-sprayed in the face or thumped with a baton or shot in the head, depending upon the degree of their non-co-operation.
We have a functioning government in this country even when the Liberals are in power --although it pains me greatly to admit it,
Taxes are paid and used to fund various projects which are, technically, for the good of all.
I personally would not volunteer to pay income taxes because I am a greedy libertarian.
I pay my taxes because if I don't, men with guns in the service of the state will come to my house and drag my sorry butt to the slammer for evading income taxes.
We live in a civilized society -- in which wimpy pacifist losers can walk around safely -- because we live under constant threat of socially sanctioned government violence.
It's the reason I don't speed (too much), rob banks, use heroin, enslave the weak so I never have to do my own laundry again, or hunt down the teachers who annoyed me in high school to cover them in Hershey's chocolate syrup and stake them out on the nearest red ant hill in the hot sun.
(Yeah. Right. Like you've never thought about what you'd do if Parliament accidentally repealed the Criminal Code for a day.)
Pacifists such as Loney have never accomplished anything in this world and never will, and they've certainly never created what they purport to love: Peace.
They believe violence never solves anything when, in fact, the judicious use of violence solves many of the large problems.
South Korea is free because men -- real men, not pacifists -- sacrificed to stop the North Koreans from enslaving it. Ditto for Nazi and Japanese aggression during the Second World War. Violence ended black slavery on this continent.
All of those achievements were won by men with guns, not the wimps on the sidelines praying and feeling smug about occupying the moral high ground.
- Reaction score
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Listening to "As it Happens" the other night, they had on not Loney, but the dude who went to New Zealand. It was ridiculous what he was saying. He said that "it was obvious that the whole thing was staged". When asked why he thought that, he waffled, saying he had "no evidence" but wished he had "more evidence", but something just "seemed odd". I guess the odd thing was that he wasn't used to guys with guns NOT threatening him?????
M
monika
Guest
vonGarvin said:
I couldn't handle hearing that guy blather on any more! Staged? Right. Several military forces and governments put aside diffences to "stage" the rescue of these three, because they had all the time and resources in the world with which to do it?
Can the rescued be charged for not providing info on their captors? How stupid.
- Reaction score
- 1
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- 230
A little bit of humour.
Anti-War Hostages Air-Dropped Back into Iraq
The British military announced today that they had air-dropped former hostages Norman Kembler, James Loony and Harmeet Singh Sooden into the Iraqi desert, just a week after their rescue from a house west of Baghdad. The men had been held by insurgents for four months.
Since their release, the three men, all from a Christian Peacemaker team, have spoken with deep admiration and respect for their captors, while not offering any degree of gratitiude to the British commandos who risked their lives to save them.
“We realize now that we made a huge mistake,” said Captain Ian Coates of the British Army, “and it was time to return these men to the people they love and respect."
Coates wistfully related the story of how the former hostages were told of the decision to reunite them with their brethren in Iraq.
"To keep it a surprise, we used our commandos to gather the men in the middle of the night," he said. "They were so surprised and excited that we needed to duct tape their mouths and tie them up. But there was no doubt that they were overjoyed to be returning to Iraq. Their eyes were as big as saucers, and Kembler even wet his jammies in excitement!"
The men were whisked by military jet back to a British Military base in Kuwait, and flown by helicopter into Iraq at dawn. Captain Coates struggled to keep his composure as he described the reunion.
“The air drop was a remarkable moment, something I was honored to see,” he said. “The men were writhing around, screaming and crying with joy. There wasn’t a dry eye in the helicopter as we rolled them out.”
The British Military was concerned that the men would not be picked up quickly, leaving them to wander in the dessert. So each man was given a bright red parachute emblazoned with one of the famed Danish Mohammed cartoons.
“The cartoons really did the trick,” said Captain Coates. “As they drifted downward, you could see the insurgents gathering to welcome them. Some had even set fires to help guide them as they landed. We could hear the chants of welcome even over the whir of the rotors. Did you ever see Born Free? It was like that, but better.”
http://potfry.blogspot.com/2006/03/anti-war-hostages-air-dropped-back.html
:rofl:
Anti-War Hostages Air-Dropped Back into Iraq
The British military announced today that they had air-dropped former hostages Norman Kembler, James Loony and Harmeet Singh Sooden into the Iraqi desert, just a week after their rescue from a house west of Baghdad. The men had been held by insurgents for four months.
Since their release, the three men, all from a Christian Peacemaker team, have spoken with deep admiration and respect for their captors, while not offering any degree of gratitiude to the British commandos who risked their lives to save them.
“We realize now that we made a huge mistake,” said Captain Ian Coates of the British Army, “and it was time to return these men to the people they love and respect."
Coates wistfully related the story of how the former hostages were told of the decision to reunite them with their brethren in Iraq.
"To keep it a surprise, we used our commandos to gather the men in the middle of the night," he said. "They were so surprised and excited that we needed to duct tape their mouths and tie them up. But there was no doubt that they were overjoyed to be returning to Iraq. Their eyes were as big as saucers, and Kembler even wet his jammies in excitement!"
The men were whisked by military jet back to a British Military base in Kuwait, and flown by helicopter into Iraq at dawn. Captain Coates struggled to keep his composure as he described the reunion.
“The air drop was a remarkable moment, something I was honored to see,” he said. “The men were writhing around, screaming and crying with joy. There wasn’t a dry eye in the helicopter as we rolled them out.”
The British Military was concerned that the men would not be picked up quickly, leaving them to wander in the dessert. So each man was given a bright red parachute emblazoned with one of the famed Danish Mohammed cartoons.
“The cartoons really did the trick,” said Captain Coates. “As they drifted downward, you could see the insurgents gathering to welcome them. Some had even set fires to help guide them as they landed. We could hear the chants of welcome even over the whir of the rotors. Did you ever see Born Free? It was like that, but better.”
http://potfry.blogspot.com/2006/03/anti-war-hostages-air-dropped-back.html
:rofl:
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
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Amusing, but does no one really think that there is a difference between enduring captivity as part of their beliefs, and desiring that captivity? If they truly seek a world without conflict, I think that's admirable, and if their faith is so strong that they managed to get through 4 months of captivity unconvinced of the need for armed intervention to "save" them, I frankly envy them a little.
How long is the military going to whine about not having three people respect what they did, when the military - evidenced by posts here - clearly has no respect for what they do in return?
Let's all just let it go. I would say next time, don't bother rescuing them. But ridiculing people for having strong non-violent beliefs hardly paints anyone in a favourable light.
How long is the military going to whine about not having three people respect what they did, when the military - evidenced by posts here - clearly has no respect for what they do in return?
Let's all just let it go. I would say next time, don't bother rescuing them. But ridiculing people for having strong non-violent beliefs hardly paints anyone in a favourable light.
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The question has to be asked:
Do we spend a few million on troops and stores to rescue hostages, or do we spend a few million to pay off kidnappers who will probably kill the hostages in the end anyway and pour more funds into Terrorist organizations?
Do we spend a few million on troops and stores to rescue hostages, or do we spend a few million to pay off kidnappers who will probably kill the hostages in the end anyway and pour more funds into Terrorist organizations?
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
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George Wallace said:
The answer is neither. Anyone who wants to go to a place like Iraq does so with no guarantees of personal safety. If their faith in God permits them to operate there, so be it. They don't need "us" to help them if they get in a bad spot. If it is in our interests to provide help, well, then we back it up with soldiers like in Afghanistan. Otherwise, I say wash our hands of individuals who choose to risk their life and limb on non-government sanctioned missions. There should be no grey area.
- Reaction score
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Michael Dorosh said:
I agree completely. You made your bed, have fun sleeping in it. I would also suggest that a general press release be made, advising future "do-gooders" that they are on their own, so they shake off the "have my cake and eat it too" line of thought.
I wonder if early Christians went out of their way to be "allowed" to participate in the Colosseum events. "Oh, I think with a bit of love and understanding, we can bring the lions around". :
- Reaction score
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Michael, ZC,
Good points.
Perhaps a public memorandum of understanding published by DFAIT, stating that any Canadian Citizen who goes to Iraq (or any other war) without being a part of an officially sanctioned Canadian government mission/activity, must either;
1) Assume full, complete and unlimited liability for their actions. There will be no effort, diplomatic, military or otherwise to secure their release, or the capture or punishment of their captors/murderers unless;
2) They post a 5 million dollar bond, payable to the Canadian Government, per person, out of which the real cost of any efforts made on their behalf, should they require it, will be deducted.
This would absolve the Canadian public purse and national conciousness for the actions of a few religious zealots, should another group of religious zealots act on demonstrably credible threats to do them harm.
I buy car insurance in case I have an accident - to protect myself and other drivers - what makes CPT so special that I, the taxpayer must assume responsibility for their actions?
Good points.
Perhaps a public memorandum of understanding published by DFAIT, stating that any Canadian Citizen who goes to Iraq (or any other war) without being a part of an officially sanctioned Canadian government mission/activity, must either;
1) Assume full, complete and unlimited liability for their actions. There will be no effort, diplomatic, military or otherwise to secure their release, or the capture or punishment of their captors/murderers unless;
2) They post a 5 million dollar bond, payable to the Canadian Government, per person, out of which the real cost of any efforts made on their behalf, should they require it, will be deducted.
This would absolve the Canadian public purse and national conciousness for the actions of a few religious zealots, should another group of religious zealots act on demonstrably credible threats to do them harm.
I buy car insurance in case I have an accident - to protect myself and other drivers - what makes CPT so special that I, the taxpayer must assume responsibility for their actions?
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