CANFORGEN 97/08 LDA FAQs

[George Wallace]

Problem lies in the fact that often the members are not receiving Pay Statements while on Class C and in theatre, nor on return.  When the System says that the "Member is responsible to monitor and keep track of his/her pay", it drops the ball by not providing them with the resources to do just that.  Often it is a complete surprise to the member, sometimes years later, when the claw back occurs. 

Many of these members have no means to pass on to "Higher"; outside of their own small sphere of influence and OR staff.  What recourse is there for Unit CO's to take with these complaints?  There is a serious disconnect at that level.

 

[dapaterson]

George:  unit COs are paid the big bucks for, among other reasons, their responsbility to attend to their soldiers.  Units COs have to press it to their superiors - that this treatment of their soldiers is unacceptable.  They need to have their Adjt push the G1 staff above the unit.

They need to be - what's that words again - Leaders?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Are Reservists able to have there pay statements emailed to them like the regs?

 

[dapaterson]

LWQ: Reservists on class C service (read on tour) are paid by the Reg F system and could have their statements emailed - if they were told it was possible.  In the normal class A and class B Reserve world, pay statements are not automatically emailed.  The unit pay clerk can produce electronic statements (PDFs), then mail them individually to each member.  But it's not automated.

As well, in transitioning from A/B to C, and then back again, the member is essentially released from one system then enrolled into the other (and the reverse on switching back).  Do you think that two releases and two enrollments have the potential to screw up someone's pay?  Oh, and if one pay account or the other isn't perfectly zeroed out, they can't be paid in the other system - I know of one person who wasn't paid class C for several months in theatre - because on his class A pay account the government owed him $0.02.

In addition, the systems were not well designed to consider the possibility of shorter periods of service; a message went out recently announcing that CCPS (Reg F system) had screwed up tax relief for a number of members who deployed on TAVs that were split between two months, but never more than a whole calendar month.  Other have received retro pay for periods in theatre - and been fully taxed on it.

The list could fill volumes; the problems are known; and staff who should be addressing it are instead doing make-work projects of little or no value.  So, if it is to be addressed, the Chain of Command needs to push the problems to their next level - and so on up the chain - to force action.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Roger that. 

 

[George Wallace]

It seems that the more I discuss with people the problem, another comes up.  Just talked to a Capt, who worked for a General, who had some heartless Fin Clerk/RMS Clerk claw back a couple months pay, and not pay her for that period.  She had to take her case to the CF Ombudsman to get resolution. 

This calls for a separate topic, both to warn and provide solutions or methods of resolution to Reservists who cease Class C, do a TAV, or are on Class C due to injury (yet another cause for grief).

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Is there not a model used by some other big corporation that employs both full and part time members that can be applied to the present situation?

 

[Patrolman]

Does anyone know what the required time in a field unit is to be eligible for the max payment.?I have heard eight years.

 

[aesop081]

Does anyone know what the required time in a field unit is to be eligible for the max payment.?I have heard eight years.

Read this...scroll down to CBI 205.33

http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/cbi/pdf/CBI_205_Sec_2.pdf

 

[Patrolman]

Thanks!

 

[TCBF]

Is there not a model used by some other big corporation that employs both full and part time members that can be applied to the present situation?

- In 1973 I worked for a paper mill.  They calculated our pay without computers.  Three shifts (days, 4 to 12, graveyard) got paid shift differential, different trades and dpartments got different pay, overtime was calculated based on several factors and could happen as you were about to go home and your relief did not show up, plus; your steel toed boots could be paid for out of your pay (an allotment).

- 600 guys in the mill, maybe three in the pay office, punch card in and out, and they almost always got it right to the penny - without computers.

- Know why?  They HAD to.  Pay screw ups bad, and the union pulls the pin - that simple.

- Why can't we do that?  Because we don't HAVE to.  No retribution for failure.

 

[armyvern]

- In 1973 I worked for a paper mill.  They calculated our pay without computers.  Three shifts (days, 4 to 12, graveyard) got paid shift differential, different trades and dpartments got different pay, overtime was calculated based on several factors and could happen as you were about to go home and your relief did not show up, plus; your steel toed boots could be paid for out of your pay (an allotment).

- 600 guys in the mill, maybe three in the pay office, punch card in and out, and they almost always got it right to the penny - without computers.

- Know why?  They HAD to.  Pay screw ups bad, and the union pulls the pin - that simple.

- Why can't we do that?  Because we don't HAVE to.  No retribution for failure.

How true that is. When people are actually held accoutable for THEIR mistakes they make when paying people, rather than the CF ideal of holding the paid member accoutable (and his/her family financial sit thus suffering for it) for the pay clerk's mistakes. In our world, there are ways to deal with incompetancy -- but them seem to very very laxly enforced or dealt with given that some pay errors are simply inexcuseable when a member is going a couple months without pay. That would never be tolerated out in the real world and someone would find their ass fired very quickly ... we're lucky to even get a simple "ooops, sorry I screwed up", let alone a charge or some extra duties applied which would go a long way to ensuring the clerk didn't make the same mistake again (often repeatedly).

(DND employees do get the paid for the costs of their steel-toes boots if their job requires them to wear them. <-- totally moot to the subject point, but I just thought I'd throw it in there after seeing you mention boots up top.)

 

[PiperDown]

I hold in my hot little hand. 

Unclas DPPD 001, 031155z Jun 08

Land duty allowance - original units designation.

sorry, I dont have an electronic copy of this message.. but its out, and your orderly room will have a copy.

all that concerns me is that CFJSR Kingston is on the list  ;D

 

[PO2FinClk]

The message will eventually show up at the folllowing DIN link: http://hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dgcb/dppd/allowance/engraph/allow_pol_e.asp?sidesection=3&sidecat=30

 

[vonGarvin]

I hold in my hot little hand. 

Unclas DPPD 001, 031155z Jun 08

Land duty allowance - original units designation.

sorry, I dont have an electronic copy of this message.. but its out, and your orderly room will have a copy.

all that concerns me is that CFJSR Kingston is on the list  ;D

Well, start typing it out!  We can't wait!  ;D

 

[PiperDown]

k

here it goes....  there are a few surprises in here.. (dont shoot the messenger )

REF A: CBI 205.33

1. Based on submissions from ECS/Commands and IAW with the definition of field units at Ref A, The following units are designated as Field Units for the purpose of LDA effective 1 Apr 07.

1 HQ and Sigs - Edmonton
2 HQ and Sigs - Petawawa
5 HQ and Sigs - Valcartier
5 RALC Valcartier
RCD Petawawa
1RCHA Shilo
2 RCHA Petawawa
2 CER Petawawa
4 Engineer support - Gagetown
5 CER - Valcariter
1 RCR - Petawawa
2 RCR - Gagetown
1 PPCLI - Edmonton
2 PPCLI - Shilo
1 R 22e - Valcartier
2 R 22e - Valcartier
2 service battalion - Petawawa
2 Field Amb - Petawawa
5 Field Amb - Valcartier
5 Service Battalion- Valcartier
1 Field Hosp - Petawawa
1 MP Platoon - Edmonton
2 MP Platoon - Petawawa
5 MP Platoon - Valcartier
CDI (JTFx only)
408 Tac Hel - Edmonton
427 SOA sqn - Petawawa (except for pers receiving JTF2 allowance level 2 and 3)
430 Tal Hel - Valcartier
CFJSR - Kingston
4 AD - Gagetown
1 construction TP, 4 Engineer Sup - Edmonton
2 construction TP, 4 Engineer Sup - Petawawa
5 construction TP, 4 Engineer Sup -valcartier
4 construction TP, 4 Engineer Sup - Gagetown
4 AD, RCA - Moncton
4AD - Cold Lake
1 Service Battalion - Edmonton
LdSH - Edmonton
3 PPCLI - Edmonton
3 R 22e - Valcartier
3 RCR - Petawawa
1 CER - Edmonton
1 Feild Amb - Edmonton
1 GS - edmonton
2 GS - Petawawa
5 GS - Valcartier
2 EW - Kingston
CJIRU - trenton
12e Regiment Blinde - Valcartier
5 service Battalion - montreal
2 MP - London
2 MP - Ottawa
SOFCOM - (except for pers in receipt of JTF2 allowance CAT 2 and 3 and HQ Pers)
CSOR - Petawawa
1 MP - Edmonton
1 MP - Toronto
1 MP - Halifax
1MP - MOntreal
1MP - Calgary
1MP - Chilliwack
1MP Shilo
1MP Suffield
1MP - Wainwright
2MP - Petawawa
2MP - Kingston
1MP - winnipeg
2MP - Sault Ste Marie
3MP - Gagetown
3MP - Moncton
5MP - Valcartier
5MP - St Jean
1MP - Vancouver
5MP - Quebec
2MP - Meaford
5MP - Saguenay

(the units are in order of UIC, which I didn't bother to type. Also, I didn't bother to type the long version of the unit name)
Also note, some of these units no longer exist. But members posted to the unit from April 1st 2007 to amalgamation will receive allowance)





Cheers,

 

[X-mo-1979]

So the combat arm's school's in Gagetown are not getting it as originally thought I guess.
And yet again Gagetown shows another reason why it was a waste of 3 years of my life. ;D

 

[armyvern]

So the combat arm's school's in Gagetown are not getting it as originally thought I guess.
And yet again Gagetown shows another reason why it was a waste of 3 years of my life. ;D

Yeah, I can just imagine that this will go far towards increasing the rush of pers with that combat experience volunteering to instruct there (or even reporting there for duty if just flat-out posted there). Not.

:

 

[X-mo-1979]

Yeah, I can just imagine that this will go far towards increasing the rush of pers with that combat experience volunteering to instruct there (or even reporting there for duty if just flat-out posted there). Not.

:

Excellent point,I hadnt thought of it that way (due to the fact I know I'm safe for a while!)So add to the fact that you can't deploy anymore,or do your job anymore,you also loose a bucket load of money going to instruct.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I thought the members in the schools in Gagetown where in the field ALL the time.