Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan

[aesop081]

I won't comment further except to say that prior to going to Afghanistan you should learn how to spell that country's name. Your English skills are about to metastasize into incoherence.

Ok, i'll bite....

When are YOU going to Afghanistan ?

 

[McG]

Ok, i'll bite....

When are YOU going to Afghanistan ?

Let's not get into this.  He made a valid observation that labeling of the Canadian public as "stupid" is not going to do members of the CF any good.  He then presented the opinion (one regularly stated on these boards) that polls can be skewed to the point of meaninglessness depending on how questions were asked.  His service (or lack there of) in Afghanistan doesn't have any relation to these observations.

 

[Richie]

Ok, i'll bite....

When are YOU going to Afghanistan ?

Well, I'll bite back.

I have nothing but respect for our military, I wouldn't be on this forum otherwise. However, respect is a two way street. T-Rex's post insulted a large part of the Canadian public and the fact that he is a serving member doesn't mean he can do so.

What am I to think the next time I see a soldier on the street, that he might think that I'm too stupid to understand the politics of the situation in Afghanistan? The Canadian military requires positive public relations, not comments like the one above.

If you want to belittle me because you think I'm not doing my bit, that's your right. I couldn't care less. I stand by my original post to T-Rex.

The next time a polling firm asks me my opinion on Canada's involvement in Afghanistan, I'll give them the same answer I've always given anyone who's asked: I support it and I support our military. 

 

[aesop081]

Well, I'll bite back.

I have nothing but respect for our military, I wouldn't be on this forum otherwise. However, respect is a two way street. T-Rex's post insulted a large part of the Canadian public and the fact that he is a serving member doesn't mean he can do so.

I was not taking issue with your opinion of his post. I took issue with you telling him he should learn to spell the name of the country before he went.

 

[Richie]

I was not taking issue with your opinion of his post. I took issue with you telling him he should learn to spell the name of the country before he went.

An acerbic comment on my part; his post made me angry.

I wish T-Rex all the best and a safe return if he is going to Afghanistan and this matter is closed as far as I'm concerned.

 

[UCModFloppy]

There are people on both sides I think that need better education, opening of ideas.

The polls should ask : Do you support the development of Afghanistan, and the security of its people? plain and simple.

Saying its a public opinion poll is also skewed. Was there no military personnel allowed in the poll, their families? So many variables can skew results, income, location, religion to name a few. If there is a separation of it being civilian I would like to see the results of a Military family only poll. 

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Just by saying it's a poll has already said a lot. who commissioned it? for what purpose? Of course it's skewed...it's all in the way you ask the question. Why do you think the PQ worded the last referendum question the way they did? It was in order to get the answer they wanted....and by the looks of it quite a few were fooled. Polls are meaningless in the long run and it's not about the intelligence of the people responding to them.
Richie I think the answer to your question..."what am I to think the next time I see someone in uniform?" is "there goes another Canadian soldier who is just as complex an individual as any other in our society....not a caricature or stereotype arrived at by the judgement of one or two statements made by individual CF pers."

 

[Captain Coffee]

I agree with a lot of what's been said here.

The sad truth is that most Canadians don't know what's going on in Afghanistan, why we're there or what we're doing there.  I saw one poll (wish I could remeber where) that had similar results to this one, but then went on to ask them some questions like "Why is are Canadian troops in Afghanistan?"  "What is Canada's mission in Afghanistan?" etc etc. Of course the results showed that a disappointing number of people knew the right answers.

Then they proceed to tell them about the mission in as general, and unbiased a way as possible.  How it came about, why we went, what we're trying to do, what results we're achieving etc etc.

Then they re-asked their opinions on the mission.  HUGE difference.  Lots of support then.

Some people actually think Afghnistan is a peacekeeping mission!  Worse yet, they think it's a peacekeeping mission LIKE BOSNIA!

I like that we live in a country that isn't as "gung-ho grab a gun and lets go!" as the Americans are but I shake my head at how little the average person knows about the CF.

 

[nicky10013]

There are people on both sides I think that need better education, opening of ideas.

The polls should ask : Do you support the development of Afghanistan, and the security of its people? plain and simple.

Saying its a public opinion poll is also skewed. Was there no military personnel allowed in the poll, their families? So many variables can skew results, income, location, religion to name a few. If there is a separation of it being civilian I would like to see the results of a Military family only poll. 

That question in itself is skewed. Very few people are obviously going to say no to helping people. The question plain and simple should be do you support the Canadian mission to Afghanistan. Thats the purpose the polls in the first place. To find out whether or not Canadian citizens support Canada's roll within Afghanistan.

I've read through quite a few posts with interest and intrigue. I've seen a lot of arguments that pertain to military members or pro-military people being dissapointed and upset that Canadians could be so naive to not support a mission to fight the people responsible for 9/11. There was also a lot of shock that people think we should be fighting the war on terror but not in Afghanistan is somehow hypocritical. Well, the two things aren't synonymous with each other, there are other terrorist organizations that operate not only outside of Afghanistan, but inside Canada. Not to denegrate the work that the soldiers are doing in Afghanistan, there seems to be a lot of shock and not a lot of understand as to how people couldn't support the mission which leads to assumptions that are themselves naive. As someone who is totally against the war in Afghanistan, let me try to explain my position in a respectful manner.

First, the military is too blunt an instrument to deal with the problem of radicalism. Indeed, as it has shown in both Iraq and Afghanistan, military presence in both countries seems to have enflamed the situation rather than help the situation. I'm not saying that soldiers aren't trying to do good work, but the population of those countries don't necessarily see it in such a manner. How would we take it if we were occupied even if they were making our lives infinitely better than we had it before? The answer is that some would, a LOT wouldn't, especially those who have tremendous nationalistic pride, which most in the middle east have. The very notion that international troops are on their soil is an affront to their country and to their religion which contributes to the problem, it doesn't help it. Secondly, through large operations, civilian casualties are bound to happen. This also radicalizes the population. In short, we're making the problem worse, not better. Though we haven't seen any terrorist activity in North America since 9/11, the incidences of terrorism since that day is exponentially higher than it was before through attacks in Asia and Europe. Clearly, since the epidemic of global terrorism is getting worse not better, we must not use the military like we have since 2001, but police. How many terrorist attacks have been prevented in Canada by troops in Afghanistan? Now, how many terrorist attacks have been prevented in Canada? CSIS, RCMP, Metro Toronto Police and Durham Regional Police were watching the Toronto 17 for two years before they were arrested. The answer is that in order to not radicalize the Middle East further, and to protect ourselves at home, we have to pull out of Afghanistan and put emphasis on border crossings, CSIS and local and federal crime enforcement. As I stated at the top, the military is too blunt of a force to tackle the problem of decentralized groups that are basically chameleons within society. To attack the groups is to attack the society which only radicalizes otherwise uninterested citizens of the middle east and other countries and indeed, even citizens in Canada.

Finally, to Afghanistan to be a truly independent nation, like Iraq, a peaceful government MUST be designed and ratified by the Afghani population while foreign troops are not present. The same situation goes for Iraq. Until that happens, no government will ever be a legitimate government in the eyes of the locals. As long as the government is viewed as a non-legitimate entity, there will always be factional infighting within the country as we see today. The Middle East has a history of colonialism, and to the populations there, they don't see any difference with what is happening today than what happened 60-70 years ago with the British. They didn't like it then and as it's been proven time and time again that they don't like it now. Again, these are proud, nationalistic people who will never rest until occupational forces are out of their country. This is a no-win fight.

 

[aesop081]

Again, these are proud, nationalistic people who will never rest until occupational forces are out of their country. This is a no-win fight.

Theres the "occupation" thing again........ :

 

[armyvern]

Theres the "occupation" thing again........ :

And that's where I clicked on the "ignore" button once again.  :

More non-factual lolly-gagging instead of truth.

 

[nicky10013]

Theres the "occupation" thing again........ :

I don't personally view it as such. However, its not what I think of the situation, or indeed what you think of the situation. It's what the Afghani's think of the situation that determines our chances of success or failure. Considering the amount of dead and wounded, I wouldn't imagine that a lot of people think Canadians or other NATO forces are "liberators." That, and if you wan't to be technical about it, isn't a foreign force residing in a different country an occupation?

 

[armyvern]

I don't personally view it as such. However, its not what I think of the situation, or indeed what you think of the situation. It's what the Afghani's think of the situation that determines our chances of success or failure. Considering the amount of dead and wounded, I wouldn't imagine that a lot of people think Canadians or other NATO forces are "liberators." That, and if you wan't to be technical about it, isn't a foreign force residing in a different country an occupation?

Apparently then, you'd be surprised to learn that the VAST majority of the Afghan population do not consider us an "occupational" force and appreciate what Canadian soldiers (ergo Canada) is doing for them and their country.

The "occupational" view point is held by extremists and by Canadians who are not informed as to the actualities in-country, just their spin.

BTW, "Afghani" is a currency -- not a person. You still have some more educating of yourself to do.

 

[aesop081]

It's what the Afghani's think of the situation

Afghans, not "Afghani's"

Considering the amount of dead and wounded, I wouldn't imagine that a lot of people think Canadians or other NATO forces are "liberators."

Have you been there and asked the locals what they think ?

That, and if you wan't to be technical about it, isn't a foreign force residing in a different country an occupation?

We have a large number of Foreign military here in Canada, are we being occupied ? Are american forces occupying Italy ( Aviano AB, NAS Sigonella......) , Korea, The UK........

 

[nicky10013]

And that's where I clicked on the "ignore" button once again.  :

More non-factual lolly-gagging instead of truth.

Hypocrisy, no? I respect peoples opinions, but the fact is many people here are complaining of Canadians not wanting to become educated about the Canadian mission to Afghanistan. However, here is a prime example of people just throwing an opinion out the window simply because you don't agree with it rather than debating it. Its fine that people here have their ideas and are disappointed with them, but don't just dismiss them because they go against the grain.

 

[Mike Baker]

Nicky boy, your out of your league here stating these things. Best stop now before the hammer comes down.

However, here is a prime example of people just throwing an opinion out the window simply because you don't agree with it rather than debating it.

It has been debated here, many times over. What we are doing there is right, an the Afghan people WANT us there. If you can't understand it, then go back under your rock.

Thats all I have to say about that.
Baker

 

[nicky10013]

Afghans, not "Afghani's"


Have you been there and asked the locals what they think ?

We have a large number of Foreign military here in Canada, are we being occupied ? Are american forces occupying Italy ( Aviano AB, NAS Sigonella......) , Korea, The UK........

Foreign troops the government has invited for training purposes are different than an invasion for combat purposes. As for Italian airbases, ask Italians. I don't think too many Europeans are happy with US military bases in their country.

Have I been to Afghanistan? Clearly not. But has anyone else here been to Afghanistan? First hand experience would certainly be welcomed. Unfortuantely, the only poll I've seen is from the National Post which in itself is right wind radicalism that says Afghan's to the tune of like 90% want Canadians there. You can question other polls in terms of what they ask, but I have two questions to ask in terms of the National Post, or whichever news organization it was that surveyed people. 1) What kind of poll was it. Was it a telephone poll? Because that precludes almost all of Afghanistan and secondly, are you really going to have reporters going to Afghan villages going door to door asking poll questions? I think not.

 

[Mike Baker]

But has anyone else here been to Afghanistan?

Many have been there, an we have lost some that were members on here, and some that are on here have been injured. I'm sure one or two will be by soon.

Baker

 

[armyvern]

Hypocrisy, no? I respect peoples opinions, but the fact is many people here are complaining of Canadians not wanting to become educated about the Canadian mission to Afghanistan. However, here is a prime example of people just throwing an opinion out the window simply because you don't agree with it rather than debating it. Its fine that people here have their ideas and are disappointed with them, but don't just dismiss them because they go against the grain.

We're quite open to debate around here.

But, if you want to come to a debate -- especially with soldiers who, contrary to leftists opinion, are NOT just a bunch of automatons and who DO fully inform themselves as to what they actualities and facts are of what they are undergoing and partaking in daily (vice those sitting back here simply listening to spin) ... then I highly suggest that you fully understand that it is not your opinion that we have problems with ...

it is the spin and the mis-information that is tossed about as facts.

You want to debate soldiers involved in Afghanistan on whther their "occuptation" is justified or not on behalf of all those "occupied people" that you speak of and the Canadians who agree with them -- then you'd better come prepared to be corrected on such simple things that people who actually give two-cents about this country already seem to know ... the first and most obvious being your lack of knowledge of Afghanistan evidenced by you referring to the Afghan people as money.

I dismiss them not because I am against other ideas, but because they can't seem to get either their "facts" correct. They always seem to be claiming that we are "occupying" etc and that the population doesn't want us there (based on an extreme minority viewpoint of the populace - that being the one held by the Taliban and extremeists) when they don't even have a clue how to properly adress that population by it's proper name.

And, when we call them on it -- they claim we are the uninformed and misguided ones.  :

 

[nicky10013]

Nicky boy, your out of your league here stating these things. Best stop now before the hammer comes down.

It has been debated here, many times over. What we are doing there is right, an the Afghan people WANT us there. If you can't understand it, then go back under your rock.

Thats all I have to say about that.
Baker

No, I can't say I do understand it. Clearly, the people there want us so badly, yet so many soldiers are coming home in body bags. Its a shame. It was never my argument that what we're doing there ISN'T right, just misguided and creating larger problems than were there originally. It was also my argument that the problem will never be solved just so long as we're there. Its up to the Afghan's to build their own nation, not Canadians.