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Canadian Forces reaching out to Taliban members

stegner

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Canadian Forces reaching out to Taliban members

Updated Fri. May. 2 2008 8:13 AM ET

The Canadian Press

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan -- A strategy of talking to the Taliban -- once ridiculed as "naive'' by the Conservative government in Canada -- is being test driven in the Kandahar countryside, much to the relief of some Afghans including one of the area's biggest power brokers.

Ahmed Wali Karzai, the half brother of Afghanistan's president, said something needs to be done to stop "the madness'' of the deadly insurgency.

Canadian troops in Afghanistan are reported reaching out to low- and mid-level insurgents, encouraging them through local villagers to sit down with Afghan authorities and perhaps even NATO forces.

"I absolutely support the Canadian decision,'' Ahmed Wali Karzai, head of the Kandahar provincial council, told The Canadian Press in an interview Thursday.

"It's a very wise and proper decision. There are people (with whom) we can talk and reason.''

"There would be so many Taliban willing to come home. Nobody supports this madness; this killing of innocent people; the killing of women and children. They are not happy with it, we know this.''

Troops in the field are reported being encouraged to gently promote the idea of local negotiations among villages in the far-flung desert and mountain creases. The Globe and Mail said these community-level olive branches would complement a strategic effort involving the central government in Kabul and international allies.

Kai Eide, the UN special envoy to Afghanistan visiting Ottawa Thursday, said he's not aware of any formal talks with the Taliban. "There's no process of that nature under way.''

Eide said it's important to reach out, but any discussions must be led by the Afghan government, directed by politicians -- not soldiers -- and must be based on the Afghan constitution.

Canadian cabinet ministers were careful to point out Canada is not in any direct talks with the Taliban.

"We're going to work with the Afghans in a democratic way, but we are not involved in any direct discussions with Taliban terrorists,'' Defence Minister Peter MacKay told reporters in Ottawa.

"We don't do that, we will not do that. We will work on national reconciliation, reconstruction development, all of those things with sovereign decisions made by the Afghanistan government,'' MacKay said.

Foreign Affairs Minister Maxime Bernier and International Co-operation Minister Bev Oda were also asked about it. Both said Ottawa supports the Afghan government's position, which is that Kabul is willing to talk to people who respect the Afghan constitution and renounce violence.

The New Democrats, staunch opponents of the war, had suggested almost two years ago that peace talks be initiated with the Taliban. The call prompted MacKay -- who was at Foreign Affairs at the time -- to call the idea "naive.'' Conservative commentators christened NDP Leader Jack Layton as "Taliban Jack.''

President Hamid Karzai has since called for peace talks with Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar, but militants have insisted foreign forces must leave first and that the country adhere more strictly to Islamic law.

One insurgent commander, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, suggested rewriting the country's constitution -- a notion the president's younger brother dismissed as a non-starter.

But Ahmed Wali Karzai said it's imperative that NATO allies get behind the peace bid in order to preserve the Afghan government's credibility.

The United States and Canada have been alone among NATO allies in southern Afghanistan in their refusal to talk with the militants.

The British brokered a ceasefire with the Taliban in the hotly contested Musa Quala region of Helmand Province, a deal that ultimately fell apart.

Negotiation through the local governor is a cornerstone of the Dutch strategy in Urzugan province.

As recently as last fall, Canadian military commanders saw no sense in trying to reason with militants and preferred to use the cash incentives of local make-work programs to entice low-level Taliban to refrain from participating in the insurgency.

"I don't talk to the Taliban,'' said Brig.-Gen. Guy Laroche, Canada's top commander in Afghanistan.

The Kabul government has tried to convince militants to put down their arms through its so-called Peace Through Strength program, but many Afghans have complained that it has suffered because of a lack of funding and international support. As long as they promise to renounce violence, hard-liners are welcomed back into society.

The younger Karzai warned that time is running out and pointed to last weekend's assassination attempt on his brother. Afghan authorities said that the attack by gunman, which killed three people including a legislator, was hatched in Pakistan.

Ahmed Wali Karzai watched the event live on television and said his heart sank when there was gunfire, explosions and suddenly the coverage ended.

He rushed to the telephone, but it took several attempts to get through. When his brother finally came on the line, the calmness in Hamid Karzai's voice reassured him.

"He was very upset, especially about the loss of life, but ... he was in complete control,'' said the younger Karzai, who spoke in English -- he once lived in Chicago.

Hamid Karzai plans to run for another term as president, but his brother said he often worries about another assassination attempt.

Their father, Abdul Ahad Karzai, was murdered by Taliban gunmen on a motorcycle in Quetta, Pakistan, in July 1999.

"After my father was assassinated, we always knew that (Hamid) was next and we would receive lots of news daily that people were coming to kill him. But my big problem was I could never stop him or make him listen to me when I sometimes said: `It's not worth it'.''

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080502/taliban_talks_080502/20080502?hub=TopStories
 
Well, while I am not surprised, I have the definite impression that this will be sending some conflicting messages to the Afghan people as a whole.

I figured that as the Karzai gov't was enacting some rather draconian ( a la Taliban) policies towards amongst other things: TV broadcasting, the line between Taliban & "good guy" governments.

Will the people who fight the current Gov't ever intergrate into the Karzai (or other) gov't?  Probably
Will the Karzai (or other) Afghan Gov't change in appearance over time?  Probably
 
Not so fast.... (at least according to the Defence Minister) - shared with the usual disclaimer....

Soldiers getting ahead of civilians in promoting Afghan-Taliban talks: MacKay
Canadian Press, 02 May 08
Article link - .pdf permalink

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan — Members of the Canadian military who have been encouraging low-and mid-level Taliban to talk with Afghan authorities were out of line, Defence Minister Peter MacKay said Friday.

He suggested recent overtures by soldiers on the ground to foment dialogue are a step ahead of an international working group that's trying to hammer together a united front against the deadly insurgency.

The Globe and Mail quoted Lt.-Col. Gordon Corbould, the new battle group commander, and Sgt. Tim Seeley, a civilian-military co-operation officer for Canada's Provincial Reconstruction Team, on Thursday as saying that channels were being opened to moderate Taliban.

Other officials in Kandahar, who spoke privately, backed up the military's assessment calling it creative thinking.

But they were sternly corrected by the minister.

"They certainly don't speak for the government of Canada," MacKay said in a telephone interview from Halifax.

The Department of National Defence "doesn't make policy," he said, "only the government does that."

MacKay repeated the hardline stand by the Conservatives that Canada does not negotiate directly with terrorists.


The idea that Canadian soldiers would be stepping up with Afghans to encourage militants in the war-ravaged province to lay down their weapons and talk has won high praise in Kandahar City.

Powerbrokers such as Ahmed Wali Karzai, the younger half brother of Afghan President Hamid Karzai, say it's just the kind of push that's need to stem the tide of violence. Tribal leaders in the hotly contested Panjwaii district, where much Canadian blood has been shed, are also happy with the thought.

But MacKay said reconciliation isn't something that Canadians can make happen for the Afghans. It's an "initiative that must be led by them" and that Ottawa is content to support Karzai's peace overtures, but "at a distance."

In Kabul, a high-level international committee called the Policy Action Group - which includes Canada, the United States, Britain and the Afghan government - is trying to agree on the scope of talks with top Taliban commanders.

The U.S. has apparently set down three conditions, which includes preventing the return of al-Qaida, no power-sharing with Taliban leaders and no reduction of military operations.

MacKay said the group is trying to formulate a coherent stand and has not yet agreed on a common position.

"Every country has a different approach," he said. "Canada has its own approach."

He declined to go into details about what Ottawa sees as important "red lines" if and when the Afghan government begins formal talks to bring an end to the bloodshed.

But MacKay suggested that most of the U.S. demands are common sense points that all allies fighting in Afghanistan could support.

Karzai has called for peace talks with Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar, but militants have demanded the removal of all foreign forces as a pre-condition for talks. They also want a stricter interpretation of Islamic law, political posts and perhaps control over some districts and provinces.

Canada and the United States are alone among NATO allies in southern Afghanistan in their refusal to speak to militants. The British and the Dutch have both made efforts to either engage in dialogue or broker local ceasefires.
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I'm pretty sure this was always going on. Low and mid level Taliban are the ones more likely to be influenced by terrorist tactics of the higher levels. If this wasn't being done before, why did we deploy CIMIC and PSYOPS teams????  Guess the media is trying to grab at something since our boys (and girls) have been coming home safe after ops, knock on wood.
 
PuckChaser said:
I'm pretty sure this was always going on. Low and mid level Taliban are the ones more likely to be influenced by terrorist tactics of the higher levels. If this wasn't being done before, why did we deploy CIMIC and PSYOPS teams????  Guess the media is trying to grab at something since our boys (and girls) have been coming home safe after ops, knock on wood.

Yup. Quite right. I just hope the politicians don't hang the troops out to dry.
 
yeah we did this with the japanese and the nazis and all we had to do was nuke them and or take their capital.
:p
 
PuckChaser said:
I'm pretty sure this was always going on. Low and mid level Taliban are the ones more likely to be influenced by terrorist tactics of the higher levels. If this wasn't being done before, why did we deploy CIMIC and PSYOPS teams????  Guess the media is trying to grab at something since our boys (and girls) have been coming home safe after ops, knock on wood.

If this is the case, it would be interesting to see how closely what the reporter wrote resembles what the officer and NCO in question said - it can be a LONG way between "we talk to Taliban" and "we talk to former Taliban who agree to put down arms and accept Kabul rule & the constitution"....
 
Hell... isn't one of the Karzai governors a former Taliban governor?
If that isn't talking to relatively high up, tell me what it is....
 
I thought the last time we tried sitting down with these 'people' one of our guys took a hatchet to the head?
 
Ahh... Unterofficier Steiner
The incident to which you are refering was when one of our CIMIC detachments was talking to a village council of elders... when someone decided to crash the activity.... there will always be party crashers.
 
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