Canadian Attack Helicopters

[Kirkhill]

Ex-Dragoon, is that you arguing to scrap the escorts, put the troops into a Big Honking Transport and then arm the BHT to the nines? But who is going to supply the screen? The Air Defence?  The Anti-Submarine Protection?

Oops sorry - got carried away for a moment. ;D  >  Happy Canada Day.

 

[MrWhyt]

perhaps an armed UAV could serve the purpose as well.

Maybe a mix of Predator A and B. The A's armed with Hellfires and the B's with 500lb LGBS/JDAM, the 250lb SDB or some form of cluster munition.

Pros: Long loiter time, can be piloted via satellite link from a base in Canada (less personel in country), interoperability with allies (US), can be used as a recce assest not just an escort role, less media/civiliian fallout if an UAV goes down vs. losing pilots
Cons: Cost, cost, cost. Chain of command ie: who gives the shoot order? the pilot, the escortee or some muckety muck higher up.

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

I'm not sure if UAVs can fly escort for helicopters as there may be some airspace control issues.  I know I wouldn't feel comfortable in the CH-47 if the plane flying next to me was a UAV.  Call me paranoid, but I want the guys at the controls to have a vested interest in not colliding.

AH-64 please. 

2B

 

[tomahawk6]

A cheap but effective attack helo[$10.7m] is the Marine Super Cobra.

 

[HItorMiss]

I may have a love affair with the AH-64's in all it's wonderful variants, however in terms of cost and effectiveness the AH-1 Super Cobra's not only carry much of the same weapons systems (hellfire, TOW etc etc) but they do it at a cheaper cost in airframe.

 

[George Wallace]

Next question.  Production Lines?  Are the Production Lines for the AH 1 still in operation, or do they have to be reopened and retooled?

 

[Armymatters]

Next question.  Production Lines?  Are the Production Lines for the AH 1 still in operation, or do they have to be reopened and retooled?

Still open. Turkey was to acquire new build Cobra's under the King Cobra programme, but the Turkish government canned the order due to fiscal issues. The -W model entered LRP in 2003, while the -Z about to enter full-rate production, with initial operating capability in mid-2009. All airframes for the USMC. Both the USMC and the Israelis are very happy with the type.

 

[Kirkhill]

Rather than combining lift and attack; has anyone revisited recce and attack as the principal dual-purpose airframe: Kiowa D, perhaps?

(And please, don't reinvent the Comanche concept ... too expensive.)

Michael I think you will find that the ARH that I mentioned is the replacement for the Kiowa OH-58D.  They are both 5000 lb All Up Weight aircraft vs the 15,000 to 16,000 lb weights of the AH-1Z and the AH-64

From Global Security:

...The ARH will be a direct replacement for the aging OH-58D Kiowa Warrior fleet...

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/arh.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/oh-58.htm

 

[Mud]

Interesting comments about the American ARH - seems like the most politically viable option. 

A while back I saw a pic of a Griffon undergoing testing with a 20mm cannon and Hellfire launchers - apparently neither was hooked up, maybe just checking the aerodynamics- but anyways does anyone know what became of that?  Could it have use as even an  interim option?  Or would our medium lift choppers be guaranteed American/Brit/Dutch Apache cover?

Dave

 

[thunderchild]

I like the idea of having AH-1Z and upgrading or replacing the griffons with UH-1Y and S-92's

 

[brihard]

I like the idea of having AH-1Z and upgrading or replacing the griffons with UH-1Y and S-92's

You do realize this thread has not been posted on since 2006, right?

 

[ArmyRick]

I beleive your referring to the Viper and Venom helicopters in USMC service as of 2 years ago? You realize that replacing Griffens is not a blimp on the procurement radar?

 

[Kat Stevens]

I beleive your referring to the Viper and Venom helicopters in USMC service as of 2 years ago? You realize that replacing Griffens is not a blimp on the procurement radar?

Griffon...Blimp...I see what you did there, nice one.

 

[a_majoor]

RCAF attack blimp? say it ain't so 

 

[medicineman]

RCAF attack blimp? say it ain't so 

Bet the bad guys would never see that coming...well ok, figuratively anyways...

MM

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Well P & W may have a line on Attack helo's since we supplied the engine tech for China's new helo's. maybe we can buy some for "testing"

 

[a_majoor]

What do we really want/need with an attack/armed helo?

The big, heavyweight ones like the Apache are built for high intensity conventional war and to deal with heavily protected targets like AFVs. Is that a possibility on the horizon or do we need many smaller, lighter and cheaper helos to cover large areas (COIN, stability ops, humanitarian relief etc.) and deal with lesser target sets?

How big of a footprint can we afford? Do we want to be tied to airbases or do we want to be able to operate out of FOBs and FARPs?

What sort of operational concept are we going with? Do we want to deploy large numbers of troops and equipment at once or do we want to make pinpoint insertions of small numbers of specialists (SoF operators, Recce dets, weapons teams to form cutoffs)?

Once we answer those questions then the nature of the equipment needed becomes much clearer.

 

[cupper]

If our history with ASW helos is any indication, I wouldn't be holding my breath that we'd see anything before our great grandkids are ready to fly them.

 

[dimsum]

If our history with ASW helos is any indication, I wouldn't be holding my breath that we'd see anything before our great grandkids are ready to fly them.

And that's *after* we collectively agreed that we needed a replacement for the Sea King.

 

[GAP]

And that's *after* we collectively agreed that we needed a replacement for the Sea King.

We had some of those didn't we?