Canada sets up new military spy unit

[George Wallace]

:

Is this a "Non-News Day"?  HUMINT (Human Intelligence) is old news.  HCAP has been going on for years.  Selection is rather tough.  It must be pointed out though, that all members of the CF are "HUMINT" Operators in the long run.  They are debriefed after Patrols, TICs, Convoys, visits to Scheduled countries, etc. by INT Ops and thus everyone is a "Source" from which INT Ops can draw information and draft Intelligence Products. 

So?  What are they going to discover tomorrow to bring attention to the CF?  Something that has been going on for years, but just recently drawing attention to some bored, ill-informed journalist?

OH!  Greymatters.  Just because something is from five or ten years ago, does not make it "fair game" and ready to become "Open Source".  Some security classifications will never be lifted.

 

[X-mo-1979]

:

Is this a "Non-News Day"?  HUMINT (Human Intelligence) is old news.  HCAP has been going on for years.  Selection is rather tough. 

In a physical sense?If so I under estimated some very large useless people.

 

[George Wallace]

In a physical sense?If so I under estimated some very large useless people.

Are you confusing "physical" and "mental" ........or "HUMINT" and "CIMIC"?

 

[X-mo-1979]

Seen.

Know a couple people who could not physically deploy with our troops but had no issues passing that HCAP and deploying.
Just goes to show theirs a job for everyone I guess.

 

[Greymatters]

I would say he is qualified to comment on the matter. Why is that whenever the term "expert" is used, just like in American media the comments are often greeted with comtempt? I have noticed a habit of the media in being to quick in declaring someone an "expert"
But someone who has taken a number of years to educate themselves in a subject area should be recognized as making informed comments. 

Being an expert on making comments and being an expert on how things actually work are two different things.  Expertise in how border services conduct intelligence and how the CF does intelligence are also two different things.  Being president of CASIS and knowing how military intelligence works are also two different things.  In the end, being a recognized expert on international policy and strategic use of intelligence does not translate to expertise into understanding specialized fields such as targeting, HUMINT, imagery analysis, etc.  Unless he is a former member of the CF, or any another Canadian intelligence agency/unit, he has no leg to stand on.  Finally, when he implies that this capability never existed before, he is definately showing his lack of area knowledge...     

"They don't really have any experience in this kind of operation and there's no form of accountability to keep a watch if things go wrong."    :

 

[George Wallace]

I suppose we could bring up the "I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night" comment.  Reading a book on "Home Construction" and actually being a Master Carpenter are two different things.

 

[Strike]

Seen.

Know a couple people who could not physically deploy with our troops but had no issues passing that HCAP and deploying.
Just goes to show theirs a job for everyone I guess.

Wow.  Tell us how you really feel.

 

[The Bread Guy]

To be fair to Mr. Wark, here's another thing to remember when reading someone's comments quoted in MSM - what did the reporter ask?  What documentation (if any) was provided by the reporter? 

I'm guessing you'd get different comments from the same person based on the following requests from a reporter:

1)  "I'm working on a story about the CF setting up a new human intelligence company.  What do you think about that?"

2)  "I have some documentation suggesting that the CF is creating some sort of military spy agency. I'm pressed for time to deadline - would you mind if I faxed/e-mailed the material to you, and you could call me back before XX:YYpm with any comments you might have?"

3)  "I have some documentation suggesting that the CF is creating some sort of military spy agency.  Can I make an appointment with you to sit down, go over these documents so I could get your opinion for an interview?"

Wonder which of these led to the various comments we're reading?  Or some other combination?

 

[Greymatters]

OH!  Greymatters.  Just because something is from five or ten years ago, does not make it "fair game" and ready to become "Open Source".  Some security classifications will never be lifted.

I agree and Im not proposing we discuss those...

 

[McG]

I don't think it would be the worst if DND created an agency like the American DIA to help in these respects. 

http://www.dia.mil/

Isn't that basically what we have (though smaller scale) in J2/DG Int?

 

[Greymatters]

What would this agency do that others don't already do?

 

[stegner]

Isn't that basically what we have (though smaller scale) in J2/DG Int?

Sorta

What would this agency do that others don't already do?

Provide dedicated civilian support to the CF with respect to intelligence.   

 

[Greymatters]

Sorta

Provide dedicated civilian support to the CF with respect to intelligence.   

We already have that - the merits of civilian analysts are still being argued over...

 

[George Wallace]

I see we have begun to derail this topic, and lead some to think that HUMINT is going to be a bunch of civilians becoming James Bonds.  Far from it.  It is a Military occupation, that will be open to any Trade; if the individuals will be able to meet the criteria.  There is absolutely nothing sinister about this, besides the name.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Which is but an abbreviation.  The dreaded SIGINT, MASINT, RUMINT, MOMINT etc.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[stegner]

I see we have begun to derail this topic, and lead some to think that HUMINT is going to be a bunch of civilians becoming James Bonds.  Far from it.  It is a Military occupation, that will be open to any Trade; if the individuals will be able to meet the criteria.  There is absolutely nothing sinister about this, besides the name.

Funny though how military intelligence places great emphasis on its members having civilian credentials such as Master's Degrees and PhD's in subjects such as political science and international relations for their officers.  The CIA and CSIS won't consider anyone for an intelligence officer position unless they have a minimum of a degree. I know of at least a couple Army reserve military intelligence units out west  that will not accept officers that do not have a minimum of a Master's degree-or at least that was there policy a couple of years ago.  Honestly, I think a person with a Master's or PhD in International Relations and fluent several languages would be of far better use than the average soldier with respect to HUMINT.

 

[armyvern]

Funny though how military intelligence places great emphasis on its members having civilian credentials such as Master's Degrees and PhD's in subjects such as political science and international relations for their officers.  The CIA and CSIS won't consider anyone for an intelligence officer position unless they have a minimum of a degree. I know of at least a couple Army reserve military intelligence units out west  that will not accept officers that do not have a minimum of a Master's degree-or at least that was there policy a couple of years ago.   Honestly, I think a person with a Master's or PhD in International Relations and fluent several languages would be of far better use than the average soldier with respect to HUMINT.

Since when does one need a Masters Degree to be fluent in several languages? Or civilian credentials?

One of my girlfriends speaks 5 languages fluently. She's a Snr NCO. No degrees. But plenty of time putting her skills to work. I think she's of great use; you may think otherwise, but then you'd just be sooooooooo wrong.

 

[George Wallace]

Funny though how military intelligence places great emphasis on its members having civilian credentials such as Master's Degrees and PhD's in subjects such as political science and international relations for their officers.  The CIA and CSIS won't consider anyone for an intelligence officer position unless they have a minimum of a degree. I know of at least a couple Army reserve military intelligence units out west  that will not accept officers that do not have a minimum of a Master's degree-or at least that was there policy a couple of years ago.   Honestly, I think a person with a Master's or PhD in International Relations and fluent several languages would be of far better use than the average soldier with respect to HUMINT.

I see you are the type who thinks that a piece of paper hanging on the wall makes someone very special.  Funny thing about a lot of those people; they really don't have two clues about life in the real world.  They have proven themselves to be able to learn from books, but have no real life experience.  Can I ask you how many different things taught in academia as theory, are really practical in real life?  Communism, for instance, is a brilliant concept.  Totally impractical and unworkable in real life.

Same goes for Intelligence and HUMINT.   Education has nothing to do with what qualifications are really needed.  Strong moral and ethical standards and unbiased honesty are more important.  I would almost say that a Newfoundlander from 2 RCR with the "gift of gab" would make a far better HUMINT operator than some multi-Degree holding wannabe officer from some Ivory Tower.  

 

[McG]

I would almost say that a Newfoundlander from 2 RCR with the "gift of gab" would make a far better HUMINT operator than some multi-Degree holding wannabe officer from some Ivory Tower.

What if we could get the multi-degree holding Newfounlander with the "gift of gab"?

 

[armyvern]

What if we could get the multi-degree holding Newfounlander with the "gift of gab"?

He'd be the CDS ... not INT.

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