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Canada buys Husky, Buffalo & Cougar for Afghanistan (Where's the Meerkat?)

TheHead said:
The Nyala, although loved by the troops for the protection that it affords from improvised explosives,


I love that phrase. That's the only thing it was loved for.  The Nyala was garbage on an Operational sense and should be give to rear echelon elements for force protection.   

I was a Nyala gunner on Op Archer Roto 1 and the only thing that Vehicle was good for was #1 Breaking Down.  #2 Road moves on pavement.   I spent most of my time during night moves not scanning my arcs but telling my driver where to go since he couldn't see anything.   I commend the Military for the thought, since it was a hasty decision to save troops lives, but once again no tactical thought was put into this decision.   Unless things have been retrofitted (Like a STAB for the weapon, and many other key functions that were missing,broken or just left out  ::) )  than I hope those things are never used in a forward unit on combat operations.

Ok, now maybe I am missing something, looking at pictures of the vehicle, the driver seems to have windows almost the size of a MLVW, I could see that vis forward and down or to the rear is not great, but how does that differ from any other vehicle? While a stabilized weapon station is great when it works, it also means more weight and more stuff to break and fix.
 
I don't know about the vision thing but TheHEAD has a point with regards to the NYALA.  The vehicle is a great convoy escort vehicle but it is not a fighting vehicle and has horrible cross country movement rate.  There is only one exit(which exposes troops that have to dismount to fight) and the door is ungainly to open and close especially if you are on any sort of a downward slope.  The gun is unstabilized and therefore pretty useless on the move in a TIC.  The electrical systems is severely underpowered(or at least it was) and resulted in more RGs being broken than running when we got them.

Running on the pavement...excellent job for the RG.  Trying to force it to be a Infantry carrier/Fighting vehicle due to IED threats not so great of a job.
 
Now I am not a fan of the Nyala but I will rebut some points by MJP...or I should say add an update to some of the issues the Nyala had.

The Gun is now STABed why they even bought the unstablized version first is beyond me but they have added it now... In fact the Roto that replaced TF 3-06 was trained on STAB Nyalas

The Door is now Hydraulically assisted for out and in so as to make it that you can actually open and close the damn thing...

The rest well yup he is bang on, cross country is shyte, there was a issues with power and fan belts not sure if that got fixed or not.
 
HitorMiss said:
The Gun is now STABed why they even bought the unstablized version first is beyond me but they have added it now... In fact the Roto that replaced TF 3-06 was trained on STAB Nyalas

The Door is now Hydraulically assisted for out and in so as to make it that you can actually open and close the damn thing...

The rest well yup he is bang on, cross country is shyte, there was a issues with power and fan belts not sure if that got fixed or not.

Good to hear.....Now it is a halfway decent blast resistant "on a paved/gravel road" convoy escort vehicle. 

Thanks  HoM
 
HitorMiss said:
The Gun is now STABed why they even bought the unstablized version first is beyond me but they have added it now...
"They" had the choice of having Nyala without stabilized RWS now, or nothing until the stabalized RWS could be integrated into productionline vehicles.  I think vehicle now, stab later was better than nothing until we could have everything.  I am told that many UOR purchases sacrifice some performance in order to get the equipment in the hands of the soldier now.  I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing as long as there is a plan to eventually bring the kit up to the level of the full capability.
 
HitorMiss 
Insert Quote
The Gun is now STABed why they even bought the unstablized version first is beyond me but they have added it now... In fact the Roto that replaced TF 3-06 was trained on STAB Nyalas

The Door is now Hydraulically assisted for out and in so as to make it that you can actually open and close the damn thing...

:-\...I wish it was...  Some doors have been mod and the stab....well, I'm still waiting for the call  :'(

The electrical systems is severely underpowered(or at least it was) and resulted in more RGs being broken than running when we got them.

Still are...

But...  The maintainer have fond a lot of small mods.  We are waiting only for the call to get all those things done...  The chkec is in the mail...
 
I've got a good powerpoint from a fellow sapper about a Buffalo (I think) who hit a 500 Lbs IED in Irak. I don't know hot to post it here, but if you want it, the pictures spoke by themselves.

Only the driver was hurt (by the steering wheel) and the engine was pitched over 30 feets away...
 
I remember hearing somewhere that the Cougar could survive the equivalent of two anti-tank mines.

There's a picture of a cougar that survived an IED attack relatively intact here:

http://www.defense-update.com/products/c/cougar.htm

So is it only being used for mine detection/removal or are there plans to use it as a patrol vehichle too?
 
Damn I was getting my hopes up for the Navy.


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080505/mniesweeper_080505/20080505?hub=TopStories

Canadian Forces to buy more minesweepers: report
Updated Mon. May. 5 2008 7:25 AM ET
The Canadian Press
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan -- National Defence is looking to buy more specialized armoured vehicles to detect roadside bombs, the biggest scourge facing troops in Afghanistan, The Canadian Press has learned.
The army is drawing up a proposal to purchase as many as 30 vehicles for both overseas and training duty, say senior Defence sources in Ottawa.
"Commander CEFCOM (Canadian Expeditionary Force) is asking for greater capacity,'' said a source who has seen the planning. "We're interested in buying larger numbers so we have more deployable sets.''
The Expedient Route Opening Capability system -- known by its acronym EROC -- involves three vehicles working in tandem to sweep roadways before the arrival of combat or supply convoys.
The Defence sources, who spoke on the condition of not being named, said last week that the proposal involves buying 10 more EROC sets sometime in the near future.
The Canadian army already has five sets -- or 15 trucks in total -- that were purchased from the U.S. Marine Corps last spring. It will not say how many of them are deployed in Afghanistan.
The plan for additional mine clearance vehicles is being drawn up by the army's land staff division, but has yet to be approved by the Conservative government.
"We haven't gone to government to ask permission yet, but it's one of those things we're going to have to do,'' the source said.
The purchase is expected to run in the range of $60-million.
Parliament's extension of the mission in southern Afghanistan has sent military planners into an inventory frenzy. They're trying to determine what equipment needs replacing, upgrading, or augmentation in order to carry on the mission until 2011.
The vast majority of the 82 Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan have died in roadside bombings -- or improvised explosive device (IED) attacks.
Field engineers, who operate the EROC vehicles, gave the proposal an enthusiastic thumbs-up.
"The IED threat in Kandahar is great,'' said Capt. Rob Horton, 35, operations officer of 12 Field Squadron, based in Edmonton. "And if we are going to put a vehicle on the road and the vehicle affords our operators blast protection from Point A to Point B and potentially (explode) an IED and not get seriously injured, that is something we are interested in.''
Horton, who sees reports from all road crews, says they've found and disposed of a number of roadside bombs using the system, but for security reasons wouldn't say how many.
Sgt. Tim McCormick, 37, recently led a team of eight engineers down a particularly dodgy stretch of road when their Buffalo -- one of three in the EROC chain -- struck a powerful roadside bomb.
A few months ago, he had survived a previous, smaller blast in a LAV III armoured vehicle, which combat engineers drove before the specialized trucks were purchased.
When McCormick recently hit the second bigger bomb, the first thought that went through his mind was: ''Grab the seat!''
Once everything settled down, he cursed, jumped out and went looking for other mines "as if nothing had happened.''
McCormick said he was skeptical of the vehicles at first, partly because they seem to take forever to get anywhere, but the bomb strike made him in an instant convert.
"They save lives, they increase the confidence level of the troops doing this stuff and it makes it easier to screw off the IEDs that've been planted for us to step on,'' said McCormick, 37, who is based in Edmonton.
He then added at the end of the interview: "They need to buy more vehicles and they should stop thinking about it.''
The first Canadian deaths attributed to IEDs happened outside of Kabul on Oct. 2, 2003 when a lightly protected Iltis jeep rolled over a mine, killing Sgt. Robert Short and Cpl. Robbie Beerenfenger.  Since then, the army has scrambled to provide more heavily armoured vehicles for soldiers and better detection capabilities.
The U.S., bloodied by five years of fighting in Iraq, leads the way in both technology and proven equipment.  When NATO took over operational command in southern Afghanistan, American mine-clearing trucks became less available, forcing Canada to purchase its own in the spring of last year.
The Defence sources in Ottawa acknowledge the vehicles in theatre have been beaten up, but are continuing to prove their worth every day.
"They've taken a pounding, but they're designed to go out and take a pounding and clear routes and not have the LAV targeted -- or so other less protected vehicles,'' the Defence source said.
In road clearance operations, three different vehicles -- the Husky, the Buffalo and the Cougar -- work as a team to uncover mines and booby traps buried in dirt roads or tunnelled in beside paved highways.
The Husky, which looks like a souped-up road grader, uses metal detectors to stop the often home-made weapons and can even X-ray the ground once it's detected something. After marking the location, the Buffalo moves into place with a digging arm to remove -- or detonate -- the threat, while the Cougar acts as a command vehicle.

 
We can cross our fingers for them, but since CEFCOM is still only "drawing up a prosposal", we'll have 5 years to wait before they get here.
 
PuckChaser said:
We can cross our fingers for them, but since CEFCOM is still only "drawing up a prosposal", we'll have 5 years to wait before they get here.
It only took about 1.5 years from the time of the first request until we had them in Kandahar.  Why are you so pessimistic? 

Ex-Dragoon said:
He then added at the end of the interview: "They need to buy more vehicles and they should stop thinking about it.''
I'm sure there is value in more vehicles, but at a certain point there is nobody left to crew them.
 
Are these the same vehicles that the Marines ordered for Iraq and now think they may have to many? Would we be buying the surplus they don't need but have already ordered?
 
Well.... If they are, I guess that means we should be able to get immediate delivery.... and that's a good thing ;)
 
More information on EROC and a few other capabilities here: http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/72738.0.html

 
MCG said:
It only took about 1.5 years from the time of the first request until we had them in Kandahar.  Why are you so pessimistic? 
I'm sure there is value in more vehicles, but at a certain point there is nobody left to crew them.

Well the first procurement was pretty much an emergency requirement which got expedited through the redtape. 1.5 years would be great to see for a delivery time, but the Army is the Army.
 
these are pretty impressive vechiles, i've been lucky enough to work with the buffalo and cougar installing various components on them. only heard one report of a buffalo hitting an IED with the spork to detonate it causing minor damage but have to admit it's huge and for the days when it was here we were all dwarfed by it sitting in the shop.
 
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