BMQ Failure Rate

[Cpt. Kap]

Bert -- I appreciate being asked for advice, Just not sure I should be the one giving it. My advise is simple - give nothing other than 100%. I worked very hard each day and the course evaluation reflected a level of success I‘m pleased with. That level of success means alot when you are double the age of some of the recruits.

By "Grey Guy" I simply ment the group of soldiers in the middle of the group. Not excelling, Not failing - just average. A comfortable place to blend in but not a accurate reflection of what you can do.

Sharpey - I hear you my friend. The goofs I spoke of where those who remained sub-standard after the staff and troops did thier level best to help/motivate/put the fear of death into. Fortunately a very rare group. (2 out of 16)

 

[Cameron_Highlander_Ottawa]

Originally posted by Veteran‘s son:
[qb] Do many recruits fail Basic Training?

I have no doubt that Basic Training would be very challenging and physically exhausting(I‘m speaking as someone who has not been in the CF, however).

I wonder what percentage of recruits successfully complete Basic Training? Would the percentage be 90-95%, for example?

Again, your information and opinions would be helpful! [/qb]

In my BMQ course, we started out at 46 and ended up at 32. I think good number of people that go for basic training aren‘t too sure of what they‘re really getting themselves into and aren‘t really prepared for it. If you are motivated though you will most likely pass BMQ, it‘s not all that hard a course, it just feels weird, but u get used to military life pretty quick.

 

[Pte.Nomercy]

Oh Geez,

I can‘t stand recruits who come off these weakened/weekend BMQ courses.

I‘m not saying they are poor soldiers or anything don‘t get me wrong, if a person wishes to be a good soldiers they will because they have the motivation, drive etc.

However, I find the weekend BMQ courses to be a joke, there is not enough discipline for one, not enough PT and certainly not enough time to teach the recruits everything they need to know, hence, I believe only giving them a negative/slack *** first time military experience, I also think it turns quite a bit of people off too.

A BMQ/QL2 course should be that way it used to be, HARD and in your face. Troops, I‘m referring to reserves, should be sent out to Meaford for the summer there so that it "sinks" into them that they are training to be soldiers and that they are stuck there for the next few weeks, instead of this "I‘m going home Sunday" attitude. I also believe that courses are too short, I do realize the reserves set out to meet people's schedules, but I believe a BMQ course should be more then what....TWENTY DAYS? Come on......

As for when I did my QL2, there was nearly 60 people in my platoon, YES that many! Meaford was overpopulated that year, and by the time the course was over we had some 30 people left. This was because we had good instructors, one of which was a PPCLI sergeant who was in the Yugoslavian conflict and engaged the Croatians and was shelled by artillery for two weeks, while the other was a RCR sergeant who also served in Yugoslavia, was wounded and had a huge scar on his forehead and was so hard his section dropped to 6 people from 15.

Despite this I still wasn't satisfied as I felt that there was still more to learn, I believe courses need to be the way they were, as described by other posts already, it's the only way we can weed out the people wasting our money and replace them with good motivated soldiers.

 

[48Highlander]

There‘s nothing wrong with weekend QL2‘s/BMQ‘s. The BMQ course is your initial course, it teaches you basic military skills such as marching and handling the C7 rifle. None of those things need to be taught in a max-aggression environment. The following QL3 or the new SQ/DP1 courses are different entirely, and those are NOT taught as weekend courses.

My summer course was similar to yours, and we also lost nearly 50% of our initial number. While this is good for turning out "hard", disciplined soldiers, it creates problems for recruiting, especially in the reserves. If all courses were run the same way we would never be able to meet the numbers which are expected. So instead of pushing the troops untill they fall apart in the summers, it‘s now left up to the units to sort out their troops once they‘re fully trained. I‘m not saying I like it, but it is neccesary.

 

[Pte.Nomercy]

I agree with you 48Highlander,

I‘m not saying that troops should be trained till they fall apart, I‘m saying they should be disciplined and challenged both mentally and physically on these courses which doesn't really happen enough.

My complaint was that after seeing/working with many troops come of these weekend BMQ‘s that some don‘t have a certain level of professionalism that‘s all. I realize that this usually changes after the more difficult summer courses though.

I also know that the numbers are hard to keep and even harder to get, and realize that the recruit courses spaced out through the year prevent the old situation that took place with the QL2/QL3 summers, where troops would do 2 months training, waste $20,000 of tax payers money, and then just quit.

However, I do believe that the weekend courses have some bugs to iron out; I‘ve seen the way those courses are run, and they are getting better over time, so hopefully the stigma of "weekend BMQ" will change and I‘ll be proved wrong.

 

[Bert]

Sorry to break into the debate, and maybe I‘ve got the wrong perspective, but I think you may expect too much for the BMQ courses, regular or reserve. In no way is recruit graduating BMQ a professional, useful, or trained to be anything yet. The course contents like the C7, gas mask, drill, etc, are just MERE introductions. The instructors have to be successful to instill a sense of professionalism, drive, and purpose. The recruit has to be exposed to military life
for extended periods for it to rub off.
Given that reservists have to pay the bills, pay the rent, keep a full time job with obligations,
and be fresh to face civy life 06:00 AM Monday morning, you can really only do so much on weekend BMQs. The Unit and future exercises the recruits return to are the opportunities to lead by example and mold the professionalism, drive, and purpose. There they get the time to understand what drive, disipline, and purpose really are.

 

[canadianblue]

Well, I don't have much to comment on here since I don't have much experience in the army. But I am applying to the reserves, and have my fingers crossed hoping that my application goes smoothly and I can get into BMQ. Right now I'm trying to get as physically fit as possible so I can be all that I can be on the course. I kindof wish that I applied to the reserves when I was 16 when I look back at it. But the fact that some recruits don't give the instructors respect, and alot "quit" when they find out what the army is really about astonishes me. I'm thinking that when I do my BMQ I'll keep my mouth shut, and always listen to what those with above me tell me.

 

[Military mind]

Those who fail are those who are poorly prepared or those who find out they aren't cut out for a military career.  :'(

 

[Armstrong]

Half of the people don't pass BMW the first time

 

[kratz]

Half of the people don't pass BMW the first time

Without ever having been to BMQ, you are starting as fact a 50% failure for first time students. Less posting and more reading, to avoid passing along rumour or uninformed opinion.

 

[Armstrong]

I've completed bmq 5 years ago true story.
Good luck on your trade courses even harder to pass . makes bmq look like elementary school .

 

[BeyondTheNow]

I've completed bmq 5 years ago true story.
Good luck on your trade courses even harder to pass . makes bmq look like elementary school .

Even so, the information you insist on sharing is neither helpful nor accurate. Perhaps you’ve had only rough experiences with your course/training the first time around and your PRes unit was struggling. Individual perspectives/experiences obviously vary, but your blanket statements are not welcome.

 

[war2001v]

I've completed bmq 5 years ago true story.
Good luck on your trade courses even harder to pass . makes bmq look like elementary school .

In 2017 you said you were applying for armoured "recon". A couple of days ago you posted a rant about how long your enrollment process is taking, care to clear up on how you could have completed BMQ 5 years ago?

 

[mariomike]

A couple of days ago you posted a rant about how long your enrollment process is taking, care to clear up on how you could have completed BMQ 5 years ago?

I used to be ex CAF member back from 2011-2015 and did a Volunteer Release for 2-3 years.

 

[war2001v]

Oh my bad, I missed that part!

 

[IanLaw]

I am quite pleased with my own efforts on BMQ at age 35 and would be ashamed of myself if I gave less than my all. To see 18 year old little pumpkins without the simple IQ to tie thier own shoes and the physical conditioning to hump thier ruck a couple of Kms is somewhat bothersome.

I have been staff on several BMQ and DP1 courses. The 35-year-old candidates in my experience often have an advantage over their 18-year-old coursemates because the older candidates are often more resilient mentally.

One of the more recent changes to these courses that I can really get behind is the renewed focus on developing mental resiliency among our soldiers, sailors and aviators. 

 

[angus555]

I have been staff on several BMQ and DP1 courses. The 35-year-old candidates in my experience often have an advantage over their 18-year-old coursemates because the older candidates are often more resilient mentally.

One of the more recent changes to these courses that I can really get behind is the renewed focus on developing mental resiliency among our soldiers, sailors and aviators.

I appreciate your thoughts on this, but I couldn't help but notice that you quoted a post from 2003.
I realized many of the kids starting BMQ soon would have been 3 years old when that post was made.
I feel like I need a drink now. ;D

 

[BeyondTheNow]

I have been staff on several BMQ and DP1 courses. The 35-year-old candidates in my experience often have an advantage over their 18-year-old coursemates because the older candidates are often more resilient mentally.

One of the more recent changes to these courses that I can really get behind is the renewed focus on developing mental resiliency among our soldiers, sailors and aviators.

Yes.

On a side note, I’m curious as to which angle instructors find easier to instruct/which they’d prefer to instruct when it comes down to it—Candidates in peak physical condition able to handle any physical task put forth, or those who can simply do what’s required physically (nothing to exceptional standards though), but can handle the psychological aspect of training much more appropriately.

 

[FinnO25]

If I can add something to this point made. Being in my final week here in St.Jean i have noticed a lot in the past 12 weeks one being is that if you don't have drive or passion for being here then you won't pass. However Pass/Fail rate is specific for platoon, for example my BMQ Serial started with 4 full platoons all with 60 Candidates, as of our grad week our french sister platoon has 28 students left, our other 2 english platoons have above 40 still. Another very large factor is the staff you get, in St.Jean you can have either Hell Platoon, Hollywood Platoon, or Party Platoon. I think the names speak for themselves. The bottom line here is don't come to BMQ with the mentality of "Am I going to fail" come with the mentality of "This is a breeze" you will be fine. Final point is that your instructors aren't there to fail you, that want to see you pass!

 

[mariomike]

in St.Jean you can have either Hell Platoon, Hollywood Platoon, or Party Platoon.

:rofl:

Our son told us he was in Hell Platoon, but maybe they all say that? I seem to recall my sister telling our parents something similar.

Congratulations Finn and good luck in your career. I hope you enjoy a long one!