BCAS Job Action delays Med Tech QL3 quals

[EDS334]

Well, I was hoping to come onto the site here and find a volume or two on the subject matter, but my searches brought up nothing.  So I figure a proactive and informative approach is better than nothing, and I would like to get some seasoned opinions on the matter as well...

The Justice Institute of British Columbia (JIBC) has been contracted out over the past several years (don't have an exact number) by DND to provide Primary Care Paramedic (PCP) training for the anglophone Med Tech QL3 program.  The instructors provided are members of British Columbia's Ambulance Service (BCAS), which is the sole Ambulance-Service provider for the entire Province.  A critical element in this phase of training is putting classroom practice to work under the direct supervision of a preceptor out in the real world; where each student gets signed off on all the competencies required to achieve accreditation from JIBC, which in turn allows "medics" to write the appropriate licensing exam in any Province.  This is typically been done near the end of the program.

The current situation however has put a wrench in the workings of the CFMSS to produce "qualified" medics.  The employees of BCAS are out on job action, and being deemed "Essential Services" are not allowed to just stop working all together.  However, they have stopped precepting (providing teaching opportunities or military and civilian medics alike).  And yes, there are now rumors of BCAS escalating the strike action, but I say again, "rumors".

4 whole courses (~100 pers) are now directly affected, and all training hence forth could be delayed until the backlog of training is completed.  If the strike ends sooner rather than later, we play the catchup game (something I think we're all willing to do).  1 course is wrapping up here in BC, heading home to Borden.  2 Courses remain, to compelete whatever they can do, and then follow suit.  The last course (that I've heard of) has finished their first phase of training and is now delayed indefinitely - sitting on PRETC.

What implications do you think a civil strike should have on the ongoing training of military members?

Personally, regardless of the reasons for the job action (as I agree BCAS employee's are getting the short end of the stick) I think it's BS.  While having a piece of paper on civvy street saying I'm a medic or w/e would be real nice - so nice that it's used as a selling point at the CFRC's for the trade - I'm a CF Medic (or want to be one).  Training should be done in house, even if that involves bringing in all civilian instructors on a contract basis.  I mean the CF brings in civvy nurses into Borden to teach the Medics while there, why couldn't we bring in the paramedics?  My Chain has informed our course that should the strike not be resolved by the time our turn comes up to bat or sooner (since there is already a back log in training) we will be heading back to the infamous PRETC where we can then hope for more OJE. 

 

[Armymedic]

To answer your question directly;

what do you expect to be done?

The strike is a povincial authority matter. Training of Med Techs is a federal matter.

As for your personal situation, it is my opinion that DND sees the strike as a short term inconvenience for which any solution is not worth the effort it would take to actions (to post in more instructors or renegotiate new contracts with a different college) to complete the courses that are on hold.

BTW which QL 3 course are you on?

 

[PMedMoe]

If the medics are finished their QL3 course, why send them to PRETC if no PCP courses are being run?  When I got in (and SFB as well), there was no PCP course and we were still considered "qualified" medics.  Maybe the PCP is prerequisite for deployment, I don't know, but that medic could still be posted to their unit and not sit rotting on PRETC until the strike is resolved.  Just my opinion.

PCP is not the be-all, end-all.  We had (have?) many medics who have deployed without the course.

 

[ModlrMike]

PCP is part of the QL3, you're not actually QL3 if you don't complete PCP. While there have been MedTechs who deployed without it, I don't remember any recently among the young Pte/Cpl group. PCP is also the deployment standard for RegForce MedTechs at the Pte/Cpl level.

 

[PMedMoe]

PCP is part of the QL3, you're not actually QL3 if you don't complete PCP. While there have been MedTechs who deployed without it, I don't remember any recently among the young Pte/Cpl group. PCP is also the deployment standard for RegForce MedTechs at the Pte/Cpl level.

That still doesn't mean that without PCP they can't be posted to a unit to actually learn something (Comms, Dvr Wheeled) instead of sitting on PRETC.

You're right, there haven't been too many young Pte/Cpl types deployed without PCP.  When I was a Pte, you couldn't deploy as a QL3 at all.  That's only 13 years ago.  :-\

 

[ModlrMike]

That still doesn't mean that without PCP they can't be posted to a unit to actually learn something (Comms, Dvr Wheeled) instead of sitting on PRETC.

Absolutely right, but I recall that the units would have to pay for these courses, which they're loath to do. Particularly if there's no guarantee that the member will return to them after completing the QL3, which frequently happens.

 

[Armymedic]

It makes more sense for everyone but the poor QL3 student who is awaiting training to be patient and wait for the end of the strike. There is no wasting time and money scrambling and scraping to find a solution to a temporary problem that is entirely under someones control and time line.

Yes, it sucks to be them (QL3 students) but not having them will hurt the units less than having them posted in UNqualified and then pulled back for course to earn their most basic level of training.

ps- Moe, PCP is now a requirement for all QL3-QL6A med techs....and a condition any future granting of Med Tech spec pay.

 

[PMedMoe]

ps- Moe, PCP is now a requirement for all QL3-QL6A med techs....and a condition any future granting of Med Tech spec pay.

Yeah, I knew that.  Looks like I switched trades at the right time. 

 

[EDS334]

Thanks for the replies so far.

For those sent back to PRETC there is the chance to do OJE or to get onto any available courses offered (think Driver Wheel) as some of you have mentioned.  I sure wouldn't turn down that the DW crse; however last time I was on PRETC I was denied that course as "my unit would put me through that when the time comes."  We have also been told that PRETC is aware of our 'unique' situation and that they will be as accomodating as possible, and I'm sure we're all greatful on some level, but no one is holding their breath for miracle work.

I understand the big green won't flinch at the first sign of a disruption of service.  It has it's protocols to run through just like anyone else does.  I did state though that I would like to see inhouse training completed since I believe we have more than capable medics, nurses, and doctors to complete this ourselves (here it becomes a cost effectiveness vs. dependence issue imo).  More to that point, we contract civvy staff to come to our bases to teach, and like today, members of reserve units teach at civilian schools.

Ultimately I still get the same tools to do the job, they just come at me in a different order.  What bothers me though is the seeming dependence upon a civilian authority for a critical component of what we need to practice.  No license, means no real practice.  I don't expect Infanteers to go without doing Live Fire exercises, and I don't expect our Medics to go without real world experiences either.

When I hear that all QL3 Med Tech courses are now off the schedualing board, and no training is planned to start up until AFTER the Olympics - as BCAS has no intention of precepting during that time (need to find a source for that rumor) - I begin to think of sheer retention of existing pers and how long our "Red Trade" will be able to wait out.

So my question remains around the issue of should we rely on civvies for courses?  If so, to what level? 

First time a strike has directly effected me, so I'm just the curious sort.  And yes I am in Chilliwack atm, and intend to stay for as long as I can.  ;D

TIA

 

[Neon]

I did some discrete asking around at Borden. Now this is subject to confirmation, but I believe that the school is hoping to post newly graduated Med Techs to their first units from PCP as 'provisionally qualified'. As soon as the 'on car' portion is available, units will send the Med Techs off to complete it and the 'provisional' will be lifted. Also I believe there is a move in hand to include the Dvr Trg as part of the pre-requisite training at PRETC for the QL3s which will be great for the gaining units and should help with the on car training too. Hope that helps

Neon

 

[mariomike]

Yeah, I knew that.  Looks like I switched trades at the right time. 

But Moe, look at all the fun you missed on the streets! You could have rode with me prior to May 31.

 

[PMedMoe]

But Moe, look at all the fun you missed on the streets! You could have rode with me prior to May 31.

I did my ambulance ride along in downtown Toronto (Queen Street - the crappy end) in Jan-Feb of 1996.  What fun!  :  NOT!  :-\

 

[MedTechStudent]

Hello everyone,

I am one of those Medics "rotting on PRETC".  So I'm gonna try to give some info, and then ask for some as well.  As of right now I am working in the treatment room at the Borden Base hospital along with another woman from my course.  We were the last course to finish our clinical phase, and then stopped from going out to BC at all.  Now, the courses that went out and did there class room and hospital portion of BC are being sent to do their field portion and then sent to their units.  As for my course, we are not too sure.  I have been told that the JI is CLOSED, until at least 2010.  No more courses coming in, nothing.  Yes, this sucks. 

Thing is, what me and most of my course mates (who've been sent around Canada) are doing, is just our jobs in these treatment rooms.  This includes triage, sick parade, physical exams, injections, IVs, wart parade, wound irrigation, and so on.  Of course this is all done under the supervision and is signed off by a QL5 or other supervisor.  SO me personally, and the rest of us I'm sure, would love to be posted, and then deal with the JI later on.  At least that way, I know where I'm going to live, and I can tell my better half where she will buy her plane ticket to.

As for the JI being a requirement of the QL3-QL6s...I knew that was true but at the same time, two of my instructors on my clinical course had only actually completed it this year.  Perhaps some flexibility will be granted.  Things are already being flexed when you consider that the JI usually makes you re-do your schooling if you are away for 3 months without doing your on car.  This is obviously being waived for the medics who were there, sent back to PRETC, and will be sent back in the future.

Anyways, I just wanted to put in my situation and opinion from right in the middle of it.  Any information or opinions on the matter, I'd love to hear them. 

Hopefully I'll get this damn cornflake off soon, cheers!  Kyle

 

[nocknee]

I won't be enrolling before spring 2010, hopefully as Med Tech. My question concerns how the BC strike is affecting incoming recruits in this trade. Are recruits piling up on PRETC, or at the recruiting centres? Is there going to be a backlog of applications in the spring that would delay my own application? My aim ultimately is to have a shot at the SAR tech trade, and I would be happy as a Med Tech in any case...but there are other trades I would consider if there is going to be a very long wait to start PCP training as a consequence of this action.
Thank you.

 

[EDS334]

I won't be enrolling before spring 2010, hopefully as Med Tech. My question concerns how the BC strike is affecting incoming recruits in this trade. Are recruits piling up on PRETC, or at the recruiting centres? Is there going to be a backlog of applications in the spring that would delay my own application? My aim ultimately is to have a shot at the SAR tech trade, and I would be happy as a Med Tech in any case...but there are other trades I would consider if there is going to be a very long wait to start PCP training as a consequence of this action.
Thank you.

If I were you... I would call up the recruiting center nearest you, have them get you a contact number for the recruiting center in Victoria BC, and ask a for the facts and their opinions.  Not that other recruiting centers can't tell you what they know, just that those in Victoria may or may not have additional "Provincial updates".

If I were you... I would not be worried about a back log of Med Techs at the CFRC, but in rather sitting in Borden awaiting training.  Simply because you have to: Be selected, Swear In, do BMQ, do SQ, do your clinical portion of your QL3's.  That is many moon's away...  And even then, while awaiting training, there are many things to do, like dress up and shoot some blanks at forces preparing to deploy (it's fun watching the bugs scurry away!! lol jk)

It's not that I foresee the job action taken by BC's paramedics to end anytime soon (the union is imo a lame duck, and the provincial gov't is focused on politically bigger fish), but rather that JIBC is currently in the works negotiating with other Provinces to have us complete our "On Car" portion outside of BC.  There are many more details to this, however given what I've learned to date, nothing is fact, so it's not worth mentioning. 

I wonder if any JAG Officer has looked into the possibility of JIBC being in breach of contract...  :threat:

 

[medaid]

It's not that I foresee the job action taken by BC's paramedics to end anytime soon (the union is imo a lame duck, and the provincial gov't is focused on politically bigger fish), but rather that JIBC is currently in the works negotiating with other Provinces to have us complete our "On Car" portion outside of BC.  There are many more details to this, however given what I've learned to date, nothing is fact, so it's not worth mentioning. 

I wonder if any JAG Officer has looked into the possibility of JIBC being in breach of contract...  :threat:

Ah... I'm glad that there's someone else who has an opinion on the strike by the Service. JIBC's ability to negotiate will have to be seen, and you have to realize that the protocols of BC is not the same as other provinces. Not to mention that the other provinces all have their OWN service to worry about, so why should one service ditch their own recruits/student PCPs and take on a bunch of CF ones?

You have to realize that CF PCP students is only a DROP of water in a VERY big pond. Please don't think that their thoughts of out of province precepting has anything remotely to do with you. It has everything to do with the civi PCP students which out number you 5:1.

Why would JAG Officers look into a breach of contract? BCAS does NOT work for JIBC Paramedic Academy. When they became separate entities way back in the day (when the service stopped training their own), the only thing left in agreement was that all paramedics will be precepted in BC, because they will work in BC, and they will adhere to BC protocols. So another words JIBC being a civilian body (yes JIBC is actually a business) has no control over what the Ambulance does or does not do.

 

[old medic]

I suspect we'll see serious job action / government embarrassment during the Olympics.

 

[medicineman]

I suspect we'll see serious job action / government embarrassment during the Olympics.

CUPE represents alot of paramedics - they've backed BCAS up by advising against members going to BC to work during the Olympics...

Sat across from the COO of BCAS the other night at a mess dinner strangely enough...

MM

 

[medaid]

I suspect we'll see serious job action / government embarrassment during the Olympics.

Oh ho ho... you don't know the half of it... and the impact that's already having right now.

 

[Armymedic]

Is there going to be a backlog of applications in the spring that would delay my own application? My aim ultimately is to have a shot at the SAR tech trade, and I would be happy as a Med Tech in any case...but there are other trades I would consider if there is going to be a very long wait to start PCP training as a consequence of this action.
Thank you.

It is my personal and professional opinion that you would be an idiot to not take the job you want if and when you are offered it. This little "hick up" is only a year or so of pain, for which you are being paid, clothed, housed and fed during.

There is a saying: "Its all pensionable time".