Bayonet obsolete? Not yet, apparently -

[tank recce]

MedTech - The notion of regular HtH / CQC for the Mo' has been raised... not frequently, but on more than one occasion. The "liability" issue is less "Will Tpr Shnooks head out to the Loose Moose this weekend and try to break someone," as "Tpr Shnooks might hurt himself tonight and we'd have to cover his civvy pay until he's back at McD's."

I've never agreed with either concern; we are (theoretically) adults who don't (usualy) do stupid things. CQC would be a potent weapon in the fight against skill and pers haemmorhage.

A far more telling issue is our complete and utter lack of qualified instructors. In my 22 years, I've seen exactly *2* HtH sessions. Both were by members who were also Police Tactical officers...

 

[medaid]

MedTech - The notion of regular HtH / CQC for the Mo' has been raised... not frequently, but on more than one occasion. The "liability" issue is less "Will Tpr Shnooks head out to the Loose Moose this weekend and try to break someone," as "Tpr Shnooks might hurt himself tonight and we'd have to cover his civvy pay until he's back at McD's."

I've never agreed with either concern; we are (theoretically) adults who don't (usualy) do stupid things. CQC would be a potent weapon in the fight against skill and pers haemmorhage.

A far more telling issue is our complete and utter lack of qualified instructors. In my 22 years, I've seen exactly *2* HtH sessions. Both were by members who were also Police Tactical officers...

The personal injury portion is just as baseless as the first one we've both raised. As a PRes soldier, or service person, we are bound to be injured at one point or another in our careers. Even during training nights, weekends or when ever. Our chances or injury is increased by merely the virtue of our jobs and the path that we chose.

I agree with you many of these excuses are ridiculous IMHO.

The qualification is pointless, because it's not a lack of will from the PRes pers to take the course, rather the lack of interest to instruct us. Now, I could be totally wrong about that, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that there are many who believe that PRes pers cannot be taught how to be effective instructors as we don't instruct that often in this field. However, how often to many of the qualified RegF instructors teach? No, I'm not bashing I seriously want to know!

There is allot more to teaching CQC then just beat em down and hang em. I understand that. We need to teach proper use of force, and the force continuum as well. In fact teaching our troops, all of our troops CQC skills can only broaden their UoF knowledge and their options if they were ever confronted with a situation that the use of a firearm is not necessary.

I've been taught skills in searching PWs but honestly, the skills deteriorate, as most units don't put an emphasis on these perishable skills, and they do perish quite quickly.

I don't know... that's just me. If I was given a chance to qualify as a Basic CQC instructor I would do it.

 

[hoddie]

I remember that 3-06 wpn well.


No not mine.

It was mine.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Well well.

 

[KevinB]

We finally dragged him out -- good to see you here bro.

 

[MG34]

Welcome aboard

 

[hoddie]

Longtime lurker ^-^
I will have to start getting my post count up. ;D

As for the whole bayonet issue, I never carried mine overseas.  It was attached to my BOB for just in case puproses.  I did have an SRK attached to my 6004.  It opened more MRE's than bad guys however. :
Hoddie

 

[OldSolduer]

Not being up on my acronyms, which are all handy if we all have the same aide-memoires....just what the heck is BOB? In Winnipeg it's an FM radio station.....joking here!! :
Every soldier should carry a sharp pointy object (in addition to the bayonet).
Here's another "when I was a young soldier" story....
We weren't allowed to carry knives other than the C-5 pocket knife....K-Bars, etc were verboten.

Things have come a long way. We're a far more professinal army than we were 10 years ago.

 

[medaid]

OS:

  A BOB is a Bail Out Bag

 

[OldSolduer]

Thank you, now just what the heck is a Bail Out Bag?? Pardon my ignorance, but I am a few years older than the average soldier.
ANd I'd be so much more professional if I would hit spellcheck or proof read 

 

[MG34]

Not being up on my acronyms, which are all handy if we all have the same aide-memoires....just what the heck is BOB? In Winnipeg it's an FM radio station.....joking here!! :
Every soldier should carry a sharp pointy object (in addition to the bayonet).
Here's another "when I was a young soldier" story....
We weren't allowed to carry knives other than the C-5 pocket knife....K-Bars, etc were verboten.

Things have come a long way. We're a far more professinal army than we were 10 years ago.

Not far enough yet though, we are still suffering from a few dinosaurs in key places that are screwing up the common sense revolution
  WRT the bayonet, the issue is more of training than wether or not  a soldier still has one issued, Nothing is more dangerous than having an unskilled soldeir taking on a skilled adversary. One other thought is history has proven that since the bayonet has been issued to any army, the use of it has never been all that great.Man apparently has an aversion to sticking cold steel into warm bodies, in most situations the rifle is inverted and used as a club to bash the enemy to death...go figure. The bayonet for all intents and purposes is a " comfort item" giving the soldier the illusion he has a means to defend himself when his primary weapon is out of action.

 

[medaid]

Thank you, now just what the heck is a Bail Out Bag?? Pardon my ignorance, but I am a few years older than the average soldier.
ANd I'd be so much more professional if I would hit spellcheck or proof read 

Not at all mate . A BOB is much like a more updated E&E kit. Most often now a BOB is carried in a vehicle so that it could be slightly bigger in size. A few good examples of a BOB or an E&E bag are as follows:

One from my company: http://www.icetactical.com/pouch-eande.html  (I know... I know shameless plug >)

One from a really good company: http://www.countycomm.com/FORCE1.htm they call em a Force Multiplier Bag, but most people I know uses them as BOBs.

So those are two examples of BOBs or E&E, with the ICE one being a smaller more compact size of the two.

In the states, and overseas, people generally put spare mags, maybe an IMP or two, a few smokes, frags, maps, compass etc. Most of them are all MOLLE adaptable so you can swap attachments as you please. They are great for range bag, tool kit, or anything you want to tote around with you. Originally the County Comm one was designed as a police patrol bag. It works really well in all applications actually.

I hope that helps

 

[OldSolduer]

MG34, thank you for your comments. Good common sense advice. SO if we issue them, let's train them to use it, properly. Chances are they'll never have to "fix bayonets" and use them as they were intended, but you never know.
The dinosaur comment....I'm trusting that you're not including me in that lot.  ^-^

Med Tech, Thank you for your explanations. Good ideas. Question: would not the issue patrol pack be a BOB, if required? I'm cheap....and issue stuff usually works for me.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

MG34, thank you for your comments. Good common sense advice. SO if we issue them, let's train them to use it, properly. Chances are they'll never have to "fix bayonets" and use them as they were intended, but you never know.
The dinosaur comment....I'm trusting that you're not including me in that lot.  ^-^

Med Tech, Thank you for your explanations. Good ideas. Question: would not the issue patrol pack be a BOB, if required? I'm cheap....and issue stuff usually works for me.

Maybe because it would already be on your back when doing patrols?

My 2 cents, take them for what its worth.

 

[medaid]

Med Tech, Thank you for your explanations. Good ideas. Question: would not the issue patrol pack be a BOB, if required? I'm cheap....and issue stuff usually works for me.

Sure it could but a BOB bag or an E&E bag allows MOLLE attachments, where as the small pack isn't compatible with ANYTHING. It's all personal preference really so what ever happens to work for you .

The disadvantage of a the small pack is that there is no organizational capability. So when you reach in to grab stuff, it could be anything. With a properly built bag it'll allow the operator to know where he/she stored their stuff and hence reach it much quicker then rummaging through a pack with no dividers.

But that's just me . Like I said, the issue stuff may work for some and not others, the same way goes int he tactical gear world. Not everyone could be made happy with one product.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

The day pack on my tour had all the things we needed to live in leu of a ruck sack.  Therefore we had a seperate bag (I suppose an additional issued day pack would suffice even though it isn't that good).

Or what NFLD Sapper said.

 

[daftandbarmy]

More bayonet porn courtesy 42 Cdo RM....

It’s dawn, and the shelling starts. Time to go into the Taleban maze
The Marines need to set up a secure zone for civilian workers. First they must defeat an elusive enemy that wages a hit-and-run campaign from its labyrinthine mud compounds

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article1381532.ece

Captain Mackenzie Green, Officer Commanding 10 Troop (Left) sends a situation report during the initial breech (entry) into the enemy compounds

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3056/opvolc1kf4.jpg

 

[OldSolduer]

hmmmm....what's that on the end of his rifle???

 

[Big Red]

Extra weight and length.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Also know as the pointy end  ;D