Banned in Canada - Mark Steyn`s America Alone
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Kilo_302 said:
Are you on drugs?
How the heck do you figure things like this would go unreported in a Christan nation?How about bountiful B.C?Ring a bell?Listen I'm not a Christan however to compare a few redneck preachers blaming global warming on Steven and Bruce making out DOES NOT COMPARE to radical Imam's in this country who openly call for the death of the infidels/kaffars(sp?).
As for those few "coming close"to asking for the expulsion of Moslem's (how does one come close?..boggling)maybe it's due to Muslims...ummm....I dunno BLOWING THEMSELVES UP AND KILLING INNOCENT MUSLIMS AND KAFFAR'S.
And before you compare the crusades stop.Tad bit of difference.To compare the two only blatantly shows how we evolved into a better form of human being above savages who would kill,Mame,behead women,children,men.
I will not live in under Shara law in my country.If your so against Christain-judeo values leave.
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Kilo_302 said:
Extremely poorly.
Here's a simple explanation for the difference-challenged:
Mass Expulsion: Unpleasant, but you may be able to go back after the madness is over and may get some compensation and a government apology after a few years.
Mass Slaughter: More unpleasant, and you don't get to do anything again, ever, and you wouldn't care about compensation or an apology in the extremely unlikely event that they would be forthcoming.
The former, from the US, is extremely unlikely. The latter, in, near, or around some Islamic Republics, is quite likely - especially if they perfect or obtain nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons.
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Kilo_302 said:
Sure.If Billy graham is going into churches telling people the only way to God is through the murder of Muslims,then your argument would be slightly valid.
However look at the amount of issues mark's book has caused in this Christan society.Why?Due to the fact it is against someone who is not the majority.Every Liberal group/Islamic group have to jump on line and make a huge deal about someone stating facts...which may offend some.
Yet a Imam can be CAUGHT spreading hate,bringing in radical speakers from Europe,and where is the outcry?It doesn't happen.Why?Because we have this HUGE issue of being afraid to offend people.
Ever seen a cartoon of god? (Garfield comes to my mind).Did the Catholic mass's of St.John's Newfoundland protest and issue a death warrant on Jim Davis?No.Make a cartoon of Allah and what happens?
I think Mike has courage to write a book like this. I recall another author in Holland.....
Bravo Zulu to Mike for having the courage to write something he believed in.
How is Christianity working out in Iran these days Kilo?
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I’ve found it interesting to see where this thread would go … I think it is going to a bad place so I’ll jam in a few points I think I’ll want to make later before this thread is locked.
On the topic of Muslim extremists taking control of our population/democratic system, interesting but I think unlikely. I reject the premise that Islam in itself is incompatible with a pluralistic, socially progressive culture. One problem with any religion based upon writings… you can read them in a way that means ANYTHING. I know a few Muslims, I can say with 100% confidence I have NO fear they are going to declare holy war on me. (Although, I did have to endure a rather long lecture when I joked that “I’m not worried about suicide bombers, eventually they will run out of virgins and who wants to die only to find out you have to share.”)
There are popular interpretations of Islam that are useful to select groups (rich and powerful). And yes if there was a majority of people in Canada who followed this teaching I’d be beyond “in a bad way”. I consider this about as likely as how I’d be “in a bad way” if the Churches here suddenly took up their residential schools again – or to their other forced conversion techniques.
(Bringing back the BC and Ontario connection: http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0726-32.htm )
It is a sad fact that humans seem to have an endless capacity for committing depraved, horrifying acts when they see it in their direct interest to do so. I don’t see it as fruitful to bring up which society is or was more horrifying to argue which is less valid. I will point out however that our culture went through a period of time where we did things routinely that the Muslim world has never sunk to. I think because we in the west had a reaction and turned to science, logic and constitutions…
The only comparison I can make is with Canada and America. We used to be WAY more conservative than our American neighbours. Then George Klippert was arrested for having consensual sex with four separate adult men. (no not at the same time) He was obviously “incurably homosexual” and therefore he was declared a dangerous sexual offender. (For those who don’t know, that means he will never be released from jail, the only way out is in a pine box) This led Canada to change its laws and subsequently decriminalize homosexuality and re-evaluate our treatment towards many minorities.
The pendulum pulled to far one way will eventually swing the other direction.
Back onto topic, someone on this thread mentioned being more afraid of Christian religious leaders. While they do have power here, in most cases they can’t issue marching orders to do violence or harm. (there are exceptions of course, the KKK - radical Christian group, Fred W. Phelps advocating violence, etc etc) I think it is appropriate to focus on immediate threats to yourself than obsess with potential problems 40 years down the road.
Try this one: In the last 100 years, how many people have been killed by terrorists? That is everywhere, any definition of terrorist will do. Now how many people have been killed in the last 100 years by governments that have temporarily restricted civil liberties?
If you are worried about a foreign culture immigrating here and breading like rabbits so they become large enough to exert their will on the rest of us, leading to restrictions on our civil liberties…I humbly submit that we have more immediate concerns. I don’t think we’re ‘past the tilting point’ yet. But I would like us to pay far more attention to some of the erosions to our rights than we are now.
--edited to change a typo.
On the topic of Muslim extremists taking control of our population/democratic system, interesting but I think unlikely. I reject the premise that Islam in itself is incompatible with a pluralistic, socially progressive culture. One problem with any religion based upon writings… you can read them in a way that means ANYTHING. I know a few Muslims, I can say with 100% confidence I have NO fear they are going to declare holy war on me. (Although, I did have to endure a rather long lecture when I joked that “I’m not worried about suicide bombers, eventually they will run out of virgins and who wants to die only to find out you have to share.”)
There are popular interpretations of Islam that are useful to select groups (rich and powerful). And yes if there was a majority of people in Canada who followed this teaching I’d be beyond “in a bad way”. I consider this about as likely as how I’d be “in a bad way” if the Churches here suddenly took up their residential schools again – or to their other forced conversion techniques.
(Bringing back the BC and Ontario connection: http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0726-32.htm )
It is a sad fact that humans seem to have an endless capacity for committing depraved, horrifying acts when they see it in their direct interest to do so. I don’t see it as fruitful to bring up which society is or was more horrifying to argue which is less valid. I will point out however that our culture went through a period of time where we did things routinely that the Muslim world has never sunk to. I think because we in the west had a reaction and turned to science, logic and constitutions…
The only comparison I can make is with Canada and America. We used to be WAY more conservative than our American neighbours. Then George Klippert was arrested for having consensual sex with four separate adult men. (no not at the same time) He was obviously “incurably homosexual” and therefore he was declared a dangerous sexual offender. (For those who don’t know, that means he will never be released from jail, the only way out is in a pine box) This led Canada to change its laws and subsequently decriminalize homosexuality and re-evaluate our treatment towards many minorities.
The pendulum pulled to far one way will eventually swing the other direction.
Back onto topic, someone on this thread mentioned being more afraid of Christian religious leaders. While they do have power here, in most cases they can’t issue marching orders to do violence or harm. (there are exceptions of course, the KKK - radical Christian group, Fred W. Phelps advocating violence, etc etc) I think it is appropriate to focus on immediate threats to yourself than obsess with potential problems 40 years down the road.
Try this one: In the last 100 years, how many people have been killed by terrorists? That is everywhere, any definition of terrorist will do. Now how many people have been killed in the last 100 years by governments that have temporarily restricted civil liberties?
If you are worried about a foreign culture immigrating here and breading like rabbits so they become large enough to exert their will on the rest of us, leading to restrictions on our civil liberties…I humbly submit that we have more immediate concerns. I don’t think we’re ‘past the tilting point’ yet. But I would like us to pay far more attention to some of the erosions to our rights than we are now.
--edited to change a typo.
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You should actually read "America Alone".
The loss of our rights and privileges is very subtle, many issues are off the table for discussion, either through political correctness, "Progressive" thought (try having a discussion about abortion at a Canadian University, much less the issues of war and recruiting), or threats of violence (only one publication in ALL OF CANADA dared to publish the "Mohammad" cartoons). Global Warming/climate change is another topic which has been distorted beyond belief, and to speak against the ruling orthodoxy is to court furious personal attacks.
The point is our civilization is based on a trinity of ideas: Freedom of Speech (which the Canadian Islamic Congress is attacking via the various Human Rights Commissions, and Islamists throughout the world are attacking through various means up to open violence against the speakers), Property rights (which are very restricted to non believers in Islamic lands) and the Rule of Law (Meaning independent judicial law, separate and not subordinate to theological or religious laws, unlike Sharia law).
Mark Steyn is to be applauded for pointing out the methods the various bully boys use against the collective freedoms of the West, and the reasons they are so confident they will be able to preveil against a much richer and more powerful society.
The loss of our rights and privileges is very subtle, many issues are off the table for discussion, either through political correctness, "Progressive" thought (try having a discussion about abortion at a Canadian University, much less the issues of war and recruiting), or threats of violence (only one publication in ALL OF CANADA dared to publish the "Mohammad" cartoons). Global Warming/climate change is another topic which has been distorted beyond belief, and to speak against the ruling orthodoxy is to court furious personal attacks.
The point is our civilization is based on a trinity of ideas: Freedom of Speech (which the Canadian Islamic Congress is attacking via the various Human Rights Commissions, and Islamists throughout the world are attacking through various means up to open violence against the speakers), Property rights (which are very restricted to non believers in Islamic lands) and the Rule of Law (Meaning independent judicial law, separate and not subordinate to theological or religious laws, unlike Sharia law).
Mark Steyn is to be applauded for pointing out the methods the various bully boys use against the collective freedoms of the West, and the reasons they are so confident they will be able to preveil against a much richer and more powerful society.