Auditor General Suggests RMC Not Working

[dapaterson]

I've met very few people outinside the military that even know how to turn an iron on, much less use one.

#WelcomeToNDHQ

 

[Good2Golf]

...So, how does this all apply to RMC? The segregation of military leaders, who by our own leadership doctrine we want to be transformational has the double edged sword of removing persons from that society at a young age and indoctrinating them into the military way of thinking. On the surface this would seem to be a largely positive thing. However, this contributes to further distancing the future officers from the population that they represent and creating a "warrior caste". Further, as noted, the majority of the force is still represented by a relatively homogeneous group within Canadian society who largely have similar socio-economic backgrounds and belief systems. This further separates the officer corps from society, particularly when they are grouped together to reinforce the beliefs that they arrived to RMC with. As the individuals are generally from the same background and have the same beliefs than how can they be expected to represent the larger Canadian society? How can they be expected to be transformational and move the CAF to represent a society they themselves largely don't understand since they spent the bulk of their time isolated at RMC and Gagetown/Borden/Portage-la-Prairie/Esquimalt? And conversely, how do we expect the larger society, including academic society, to understand the military when there is little to no presence on civilian campuses? Situations like the WLU one seen recently are the flip side of the isolation of ideas and I would argue a similar dynamic in RMC, where a feminist presenter can be booed and harangued by a largely male audience with little to no ramifications (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/royal-military-college-cadets-struggled-with-questions-of-sexual-consent-educator-1.3083831).

Amongst many others, two things to consider:

1) Does Society have an obligation to provide a breadth of its young members to the military if it wishes to be appropriately supported, or must the military force through whatever means, participation of demographics to feed the CAF that would support Society's demands for the military's understanding and support; and

2) Would it be considered acceptable for a (any) guest speaker to specifically accuse all of the male cadets as being potential rapists, during opening statements?  How privileged should the guest speaker's 'privileged platform' be?  Could not such unjustified accusations in and of themselves be considered sexual harassment and is that acceptable, whether the speaker is "trying to make a point?"  Just wondering.

:2c:

Regards,
G2G

 

[Journeyman]

It's a stupid argument lacking any sort of substance or facts to back it up.

#WelcomeToMILNETdotCA...... where simply saying "I think" means:

a)  it's unlikely that the poster is, and
b)  facts are unnecessary (often because those pesky facts are contrary to the poster's ill-informed opinions)

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

#WelcomeToNDHQ

:rofl:

that and shoe polish, atrocious dress and deportment at that place. 

#WelcomeToMILNETdotCA...... where simply saying "I think" means:

a)  it's unlikely that the poster is, and
b)  facts are unnecessary (often because those pesky facts are contrary to the poster's ill-informed opinions)

The worst part about this whole thing is the actual Cadets at RMC get repeatedly thrown under the bus by every arm chair quarterbacking, soapbox standing, RRB SJW out there.  90% of Cadets are just young Canadians that were interested in a military career and signed up.  Not only do they need to worry about enfilade fire from the above groups, they also need to worry about friendly fire from every other member of team blue. 

 

[dapaterson]

I never knew SJWs and radio rebroadcast capabilities.  I thought they just used Twitter...

 

[medicineman]

I never knew SJWs and radio rebroadcast capabilities.  I thought they just used Twitter...

Twitter is an RRB capability if people keep Retweeting stuff...whether it's truthful or not.

MM

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Twitter is an RRB capability if people keep Retweeting stuff...whether it's truthful or not.

MM

This is my point  ;D

Leading the free world, one tweet at a time  :

 

[ballz]

I'm not sure where to start. I was going to first counter that, as a member of the Navy, the navy isn't isolated, we work and live in cities (Victoria, Halifax), and not on large isolated basis in the sticks of Manitoba. However, then I thought about it, and as far as major Canadian cities go, they are pretty homogeneous (7% and 10% visible minority populations, respectively). For comparison, the Canadian average is 19.1%. So, being in the Navy doesn't help with our experience much.

*Disclaimer, the following post contains a personal opinion based solely on personal experience. No apologies will be offered if you choose to read it*

Honestly, no matter where you're at in the military, I think most people are kind of isolated from the civilian world to some extent and most don't even realize it. When you're posted to a base in a big city, if you don't have a robust network of family and friends there (and my impression is most people don't when they are posted) you kind of end up with most of your interactions being with DND folk.

My first posting was to Gagetown and I lived in Fredericton for 5 years. I had a civilian girlfriend who grew up there, but outside of that all of my friends naturally became my peers in the Battalion. When I had a release in and was looking to land a job at an accounting firm and started to realize how important networking is in today's labour market, I quickly realized I was actually living in a complete military bubble for the previous 5 years. It was pretty eye-opening.

Now I'm in Edmonton and it's not much different. The one nice thing is the BJJ club I go to 2-3 times a week is almost all civilians as opposed to the one in Fredericton which was mostly CAF members... but ya... mostly military interactions around here for me, even though I do have some family in the city and friends from high school here.

 

[daftandbarmy]

*Disclaimer, the following post contains a personal opinion based solely on personal experience. No apologies will be offered if you choose to read it*

Honestly, no matter where you're at in the military, I think most people are kind of isolated from the civilian world to some extent and most don't even realize it. When you're posted to a base in a big city, if you don't have a robust network of family and friends there (and my impression is most people don't when they are posted) you kind of end up with most of your interactions being with DND folk.

My first posting was to Gagetown and I lived in Fredericton for 5 years. I had a civilian girlfriend who grew up there, but outside of that all of my friends naturally became my peers in the Battalion. When I had a release in and was looking to land a job at an accounting firm and started to realize how important networking is in today's labour market, I quickly realized I was actually living in a complete military bubble for the previous 5 years. It was pretty eye-opening.

Now I'm in Edmonton and it's not much different. The one nice thing is the BJJ club I go to 2-3 times a week is almost all civilians as opposed to the one in Fredericton which was mostly CAF members... but ya... mostly military interactions around here for me, even though I do have some family in the city and friends from high school here.

I've lived in Victoria for over 20 years and the only time I ever see the Navy in town is Remembrance Day.

 

[FSTO]

I've lived in Victoria for over 20 years and the only time I ever see the Navy in town is Remembrance Day.

And BOA in May.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Stand By to Stand By!

MinDef is in St-Jean-sur-Richelieu this afternoon, at CMR, allegedly (local news radio) to make an announcement about university level training: Read between the lines: CMR is going back to full university status. After all, why correct a mistake (Auditor General Suggests RMC Not Working) when you can compound it!

Allegedly, a second part of the announcement will address a CAF medical facility of some sort also.

 

[Gunner98]

The re-opening of CMR is part of the mandate given to MND by PM JT.  The Medical facility will be the similar in nature to what put in place at RMC effective 1 Sep 17.

The re-opening was confirmed on 17 Feb 2017:  http://natoassociation.ca/saint-jean-royal-military-colleges-return-to-university-status/

Sajjan made the announcement during Question Period on Parliament Hill by responding to a question from Liberal MP for Saint-Jean, Jean Rioux  “Today, I have the honor of announcing my intention to return the Royal Military College in Saint-Jean to full university status.”

It was part of 2015 Conservative Election Platform as well - http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/defence-primer/

 

[dapaterson]

Strong Secure Engaged initiative #3:

3. Restore the Collège militaire royal in St-Jean as a full degree-granting institution to help prepare the next generation of Canadian Armed Forces leaders.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Don't get me wrong, I knew that it was part of the Liberals plan/platform. My point is just, again for that MinDef apparently, a question of timing.

You just got blasted by the Auditor-General about the one college you actually run because it's not working nor economical. Yet, instead of fixing that one first, then moving on to another one, you just go and open a second one right away, with fanfare.

Aren't you setting yourself up for a line of questioning in the House along the theme: "Madam Speaker, the Minister can't run the one college he has properly and now is opening another one. What makes him think he is going to do better with that one?" or "Mister Speaker, when the Minister opens a second university facility right after being told by the AG that the one he already has costs too much and doesn't provide the military with the officers it needs, is the Minister just checking off items from his to-do list for pure political expediency at the expense of the Canadian taxpayer or does he really have a plan to make this one work?"

That's all I am saying (which is why I put the point in this forum).

 

[captloadie]

Traditionally both CMR and RRMC were more "military" minded than RMC. If, and it is a big if, they return to something similar to the old model, where CMR runs non-engineering programs and devotes more time to the physical fitness and Military pillars of the ROTP program, we may see a better product coming out.

Or we may prove that nothing will change.

 

[McG]

Why would we restore CMR to being a full university on the heels of the AG saying that the system is twice as expensive for no better an end product?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

That's exactly my point, particularly as regards the timing of such an announcement. I mean, do the Libs really want their DefMin crucified?  ???

 

[McG]

That's exactly my point, particularly as regards the timing of such an announcement. I mean, do the Libs really want their DefMin crucified?  ???

... again

But they probably don’t have to worry because I imagine the Conservatives will suppprt this. 

 

[Edward Campbell]

... again

But they probably don’t have to worry because I imagine the Conservatives will support this.

I suspect you're quite right ...

         

 

[dimsum]

I've lived in Victoria for over 20 years and the only time I ever see the Navy in town is Remembrance Day.

Yep, and when I was in the Navy in Victoria, I could count on one hand the non-Navy (I didn't know any RCAF or CA folks then) folks I hung around with. 

While BirdGunner's comments re: bases would definitely help, it's true that we pretty much self-segregate unless we really make a push to get "out there", be it sports, hobbies or whatever.