Artillery AD Training?

[boosted11]

In process of VOR to Arty AD, Just curious how long the DP1 training is, and what other training/courses I will be taking and the length?
Thank you

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

The DP 1 is going to likely be changing soon as the ADATS is going out of service as an Air Defence platform.  The plan right now is to re-roll it into a radar only, with 4 AD Regt becoming a Surveillance Target Acquisition unit with a radar platform and UAVs.  The AD itself will drastically change, as you can imagine.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

So will will no longer have any sort of battlefield air defence?

 

[McG]

So will will no longer have any sort of battlefield air defence?

That is correct.  Hopefully we get lucky and this decision never comes back to bite us.

Most of the ADATS missiles were recently fired in one great big range exercise out west.  The few remaining missiles will sit as an op stock until the mothball order comes.

Good bye air defence capability.  Hello uni-warhead HIMARS (or similar product).

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Good bye air defence capability.  Hello uni-warhead HIMARS (or similar product).

Last I heard the HIMARS project went the way of the dodo.... with a $$$$ crunch I would say that a new AD system should take precedence over this

 

[SeaKingTacco]

What could go wrong being without a land-based air defence capability?

Air attacks are so...1980s...

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

I should say a more traditional AD system... I know there was a plan for the HIMARS to do AD and Fd functions.

 

[McG]

Last I heard the HIMARS project went the way of the dodo.... with a $$$$ crunch I would say that a new AD system should take precedence over this

You will not hear disagreement from me that AD should take precedence.  However, we do not have a AD project on the books while we do have the Long Range Precision Rockets project - and the PYs for this will come from somewhere.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

I had hoped that a RBS 70/Giraffe radar combination would come online, but I guess we'll just add it to the wish list  ;D

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Thanks for setting the record straight guys....agree with the sentiment, I hope this never comes back and bites us.

 

[Petard]

By April there will be no ground based air defence, but whoever heard of air attacks on Western ground forces in this day and age, especially if they're doing "peace keeping".
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2004/11/mil-041106-irin01.htm

 

[SeaKingTacco]

So, to put the question out there:

What would be a reasonable sensor/shooter combination for Canada that would give us a:

a) minimum useful Ground Based AD capability;
b) at modest cost; and
c) modest PYs?

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

For my  :2c:, I would say that we require a ground radar such as the Giraffe that will replace the ADATS in a couple of years to work with the ASCC to provide a concise air picture.  Weapon wise, I believe that Canada should look at a MANPAD system, with the realization that the major threat for AD will be in the counter UAV or helo.  A MANPAD would also provide adequate close protection against fast air in places like the Congo or the Sudan.  A MANPAD such as the RBS 70 would be cheap ($3000/missile compared to the ADATS $250,000/missile) and would need less manpower.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I've been out of this for a few years, but I was always somewhat partial to Starsteak- either shoulder launched or vehicle mounted and cued from some thing like the Super Giraffe.

A Regular Force Battery of 3 missile troops of 6 systems (I've always liked even numbers better than the old 5 system Blowpipe/Javelin Troop), with a Radar Troop of two or three radar, plus another two or three reserve Btys that would (at most) have a Troop's worth of launchers/vehicles each and probably just a radar simulator could probably be done for around around 150 PYs.

 

[McG]

I have seen something about a Giraffe-like system for the ASCC role ....  I don't recall any of the details beyond that.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Well the Dutch have some used Gepards in storage.....

 

[Colin Parkinson]

You would think with the advent of small UAV’s and the fact that even in Peacemaking missions we have potential foes armed with older but still effective aircraft. That low to med altitude AD would be of great interest.
It’s also quite possible for us to be inserted into a future mission where we are one of the top rung players and can’t depend on the US, UK or France to provide air cover. The suck will be strong. Just line up the soldiers in a row and get them to shoot their rifles into the air, worked at Dunkirk right…..

 

[Old Sweat]

Just line up the soldiers in a row and get them to shoot their rifles into the air, worked at Dunkirk right…..

We were practicing that in the early seventies. Then came Blowpipe ioc in 1975 . . .

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

I have seen something about a Giraffe-like system for the ASCC role ....  I don't recall any of the details beyond that.

Yeah, that's what 4 AD was briefed on as well. With the current ASCC Bison/ADATS 400 series configuration the ADATS will be the pretend "radar" until the Giraffe shows up in 2-3 years.

 

[elscotto937]

Bird Gunner, Remember that it might not be the Giraffe...it has to be multirole with the primary mission being Weapon Locating. I would really like to see in be a true AD radar, because 2 completely different roles assigned to one system is not always particularly successful... read ADATS.