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Army Digest

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Posted by "John Gilmour" <jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com> on Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:33:39 -0500
Obsolete in the sense that there was absolutley no use for them !
-----Original Message-----
From: Bradley Sallows
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
Date: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: army-digest V1 69
>
>
>>had previously decided to disband the Airborne Regiment, due to its
obselesence
> as a means of saving money .
>
>There was nothing obsolete about the CAR. Airborne is simply a means of
>delivery and certainly isn‘t all the CAR, or any similar unit, is about.
>Perhaps disbanding the CAR was simply part of the cost of re-establishing
the
>regular regiments‘ third battalions. I suspect the CAR had many fewer
>proponents in the halls of power than the three regular infantry regiments.
>
>>Ultimatley the "Somalia Affair", hastened the wheels into motion .
>
>Politicians are rarely so transparent. This was simply the excuse
presented for
>public consumption.
>
>Brad Sallows
>
>
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Posted by "Bradley Sallows" <Bradley_Sallows@ismbc.com> on Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:00:05 -0800
>Obsolete in the sense that there was absolutley no use for them !
Why? Everyone clings to the incorrect argument that airborne have no place on
the modern battlefield without recognizing despite it being pointed out
repeatedly that it is specifically mass airborne brigade and divisional drops
that is at risk. There is still a place for company and even battalion
operations.
The CAR was by most accounts a highly-trained light infantry unit. Is there
really no use for highly-trained light infantry who are proficient with various
means of insertion into battlefield situations, whether by parachute,
helicopter, or boat, and comfortable operating unsupported in unfriendly
territory for long periods of time? The fact that ours happened to have a
particular attachment to parachutes was incidental.
While the usefulness of parachute delivery has diminished there are few
circumstances in which in would not be preferable to use helicopters, I submit
we should have at least one unit with a level of expertise and readiness
somewhere between our regular infantry and JTF2, without dividing it 3 ways
between the regular regiments.
I think it is widely recognized among the world‘s armies that elite forces are
often subject to "law-unto-themselves" syndrome. It is up to leaders to control
the tendency for that to become a destructive force.
Brad Sallows
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Posted by "John Gilmour" <jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com> on Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:12:52 -0500
OK AGREED !
-----Original Message-----
From: Bradley Sallows
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
Date: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: army-digest V1 69
>
>
>>Obsolete in the sense that there was absolutley no use for them !
>
>Why? Everyone clings to the incorrect argument that airborne have no place
on
>the modern battlefield without recognizing despite it being pointed out
>repeatedly that it is specifically mass airborne brigade and divisional
drops
>that is at risk. There is still a place for company and even battalion
>operations.
>
>The CAR was by most accounts a highly-trained light infantry unit. Is
there
>really no use for highly-trained light infantry who are proficient with
various
>means of insertion into battlefield situations, whether by parachute,
>helicopter, or boat, and comfortable operating unsupported in unfriendly
>territory for long periods of time? The fact that ours happened to have a
>particular attachment to parachutes was incidental.
>
>While the usefulness of parachute delivery has diminished there are few
>circumstances in which in would not be preferable to use helicopters, I
submit
>we should have at least one unit with a level of expertise and readiness
>somewhere between our regular infantry and JTF2, without dividing it 3 ways
>between the regular regiments.
>
>I think it is widely recognized among the world‘s armies that elite forces
are
>often subject to "law-unto-themselves" syndrome. It is up to leaders to
control
>the tendency for that to become a destructive force.
>
>Brad Sallows
>
>
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Posted by "Steve Kuervers" <skuervers@HOTMAIL.COM> on Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:31:45 PST
I agree about the press part. The most important quote
I can remember from a senior officer was from Gen Dalaire,
and it was "Never forget that the press are there for one
reason and one reason only... to make money" possibly
paraphrased a bit. News exists for one reason and one
reason only... to sell advertising and airtime to advertisers
who want us to listen. News about the army draws viewers
and listeners, and therefore advertising money. Sensational
news about the army or CF draws more people than run of the
mill ‘pat on the back‘ stuff.
Steve
>From: Robert McGonigal
>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>Subject: Re: army-digest V1 69
>Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:16:51 -0500
>
>
>Just a Reply to Mr. Lawson. It seems that we have a common ground when it
>comes to Collenette and the hot air city group. Tri service was the reason
>I got out. To Gunner, if you didn‘t walk the walk, you‘ve got no say. If
>all you did was a leg land tour then you missed out on probably the
>greatest experience a man could have in the army. I‘m not talking form
>experience because I served in the senior Regiment of the senior corps.If
>all you‘ve heard about Somalia is from what you read and saw on TV, then
>you didn‘t hear all of the story. Granted what happened was totally
>disgusting but it was taken care of. If you believe half of what was shown
>on TV from 1 Commando, then you‘re very gullible. The media made it a whole
>lot worse than what it was. Do you think that Somalia was an isolated
>incident in the history of our military? Ask guys that were present in
>Cyprus during the 1st tour there. What about a certain Regiment, in the
>last couple of years, that has presented a whole bunch of problems in
>different theaters of UN deployment? You‘re right about it being
>embarrassing to all of us who have served and are serving, but in my
>opinion, you don‘t disband a Regiment because a few bad apples screwed up
>royally. You take care of the immediate problem decisively and swiftly.
>Obviously the higher ups at the time didn‘t have the smarts or the balls to
>do it, and therefore the responsibility lands in their laps for later
>problems.You‘re right about the Airborne Regiment being gone and it won‘t
>ever come back but the way it was done and the reasons they gave were
>nothing but heifer dustpolite eh? I guess what I‘m saying is that you
>better have a lot more facts than what you have, when you start making
>statements like you have been. Regards
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>R.D.Bob McGonigal VE3PJF,
>10330 Eastcourt Dr.,
>Windsor, Ontario, N8R1E6, Canada
>1-519-735-2920
>ICQ 1256855
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
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______________________________________________________
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Posted by Gunner <randr1@home.com> on Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:48:40 -0700
It‘s been awhile since I served the howitzers of **** , however, isn‘t
the senior Regt of the senior corps in the Army, 1 RCHA of the Royal
Regt of Canadian Artillery...when did you serve the Guns?
One again, I disagree. You have not articulated any logical reason to
prevent me or anyone else from stating my their opinion of the
disbandment of the Airborne Regt. I think the disbandment was the right
thing to do. How much of the hazing rituals do I have to I see to
"misunderstand" what was going on? How much worse can the media make
the tapes taken in Somalia?? Was Somalia an isolated incident within
our military, no I wasn‘t. In modern history post WWII/Korea I would
hope that Canadians would not take a prisoner and brutally beat and
murder him yes, a real Kodak moment!. I can tell you it would not
happen, would not be covered up, if I was in charge of that pl or coy or
the bn. I hope I can speak for the Sr NCOs and WOs out there.
The other Regt you refer to is, no doubt, the R22R, the teflon
Regt...they were investigated and cleared of any wrong doing. As for
the teflon part, I don‘t think so either unless you have proof.
Anyone who doesn‘t think the Airborne had a strong lobby within the Army
leading up to its disbandment is sadly mistaken.
I agree it was only a few bad apples that created most of the problems,
however, there was a problem in the Regt...Officers unable to command
and NCOs that didnt‘ back up the officers and the men stuck in a
machismo mystic that ran wild. True it is my perception, however, it is
the perception of most of my peers, subordinates, superiors, and more
importantly, The Canadian Public, who, by the way, is my ultimate
Commander in Chief. All throught the 80s they were refered to as
"animals". No, it wasn‘t an term of endearment. Oh sorry, we don‘t
understand, we aren‘t qualified to make our own independent evaluation
of the situation...it was all a misunderstanding based on those jealous
of their "elite" status.
Did the antimalaria drugs exasperate the situation? I don‘t necessarily
disagree with one of the previous posts. Perhaps it was the straw that
broke the camels back and it manifested itself with MCpl Matchee and Pte
Brown. But I restate...where was the other Ptes, Cpls, and
MCpls...where was the Sgt, WO, MWO, Capt, Maj and LCol? Were screams
across the compound a routine thing? I‘m just a "leg" but the screams
would peak my curiousity!
Anyway, I think our debate could continue for an extremely long time. I
may argue it was the right thing to do under the circumstances, but, no
soldier should ever have to see his Regt disbanded. It was a sad
chapter in the Canadian Army.
Gunner Sends....
Robert McGonigal wrote:
>
> Just a Reply to Mr. Lawson. It seems that we have a common ground when it
> comes to Collenette and the hot air city group. Tri service was the reason
> I got out. To Gunner, if you didn‘t walk the walk, you‘ve got no say. If
> all you did was a leg land tour then you missed out on probably the
> greatest experience a man could have in the army. I‘m not talking form
> experience because I served in the senior Regiment of the senior corps.If
> all you‘ve heard about Somalia is from what you read and saw on TV, then
> you didn‘t hear all of the story. Granted what happened was totally
> disgusting but it was taken care of. If you believe half of what was shown
> on TV from 1 Commando, then you‘re very gullible. The media made it a whole
> lot worse than what it was. Do you think that Somalia was an isolated
> incident in the history of our military? Ask guys that were present in
> Cyprus during the 1st tour there. What about a certain Regiment, in the
> last couple of years, that has presented a whole bunch of problems in
> different theaters of UN deployment? You‘re right about it being
> embarrassing to all of us who have served and are serving, but in my
> opinion, you don‘t disband a Regiment because a few bad apples screwed up
> royally. You take care of the immediate problem decisively and swiftly.
> Obviously the higher ups at the time didn‘t have the smarts or the balls to
> do it, and therefore the responsibility lands in their laps for later
> problems.You‘re right about the Airborne Regiment being gone and it won‘t
> ever come back but the way it was done and the reasons they gave were
> nothing but heifer dustpolite eh? I guess what I‘m saying is that you
> better have a lot more facts than what you have, when you start making
> statements like you have been. Regards
>
> R.D.Bob McGonigal VE3PJF,
> 10330 Eastcourt Dr.,
> Windsor, Ontario, N8R1E6, Canada
> 1-519-735-2920
> ICQ 1256855
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
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Posted by "John Gilmour" <jgilmour@atsrecruitment.com> on Thu, 16 Mar 2000 07:53:28 -0500
WELL STATED GUNNER !
-----Original Message-----
From: Gunner
To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
Date: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: army-digest V1 69
>It‘s been awhile since I served the howitzers of **** , however, isn‘t
>the senior Regt of the senior corps in the Army, 1 RCHA of the Royal
>Regt of Canadian Artillery...when did you serve the Guns?
>
>One again, I disagree. You have not articulated any logical reason to
>prevent me or anyone else from stating my their opinion of the
>disbandment of the Airborne Regt. I think the disbandment was the right
>thing to do. How much of the hazing rituals do I have to I see to
>"misunderstand" what was going on? How much worse can the media make
>the tapes taken in Somalia?? Was Somalia an isolated incident within
>our military, no I wasn‘t. In modern history post WWII/Korea I would
>hope that Canadians would not take a prisoner and brutally beat and
>murder him yes, a real Kodak moment!. I can tell you it would not
>happen, would not be covered up, if I was in charge of that pl or coy or
>the bn. I hope I can speak for the Sr NCOs and WOs out there.
>
>The other Regt you refer to is, no doubt, the R22R, the teflon
>Regt...they were investigated and cleared of any wrong doing. As for
>the teflon part, I don‘t think so either unless you have proof.
>Anyone who doesn‘t think the Airborne had a strong lobby within the Army
>leading up to its disbandment is sadly mistaken.
>
>I agree it was only a few bad apples that created most of the problems,
>however, there was a problem in the Regt...Officers unable to command
>and NCOs that didnt‘ back up the officers and the men stuck in a
>machismo mystic that ran wild. True it is my perception, however, it is
>the perception of most of my peers, subordinates, superiors, and more
>importantly, The Canadian Public, who, by the way, is my ultimate
>Commander in Chief. All throught the 80s they were refered to as
>"animals". No, it wasn‘t an term of endearment. Oh sorry, we don‘t
>understand, we aren‘t qualified to make our own independent evaluation
>of the situation...it was all a misunderstanding based on those jealous
>of their "elite" status.
>
>Did the antimalaria drugs exasperate the situation? I don‘t necessarily
>disagree with one of the previous posts. Perhaps it was the straw that
>broke the camels back and it manifested itself with MCpl Matchee and Pte
>Brown. But I restate...where was the other Ptes, Cpls, and
>MCpls...where was the Sgt, WO, MWO, Capt, Maj and LCol? Were screams
>across the compound a routine thing? I‘m just a "leg" but the screams
>would peak my curiousity!
>
>Anyway, I think our debate could continue for an extremely long time. I
>may argue it was the right thing to do under the circumstances, but, no
>soldier should ever have to see his Regt disbanded. It was a sad
>chapter in the Canadian Army.
>
>Gunner Sends....
>
>
>
>Robert McGonigal wrote:
>>
>> Just a Reply to Mr. Lawson. It seems that we have a common ground when it
>> comes to Collenette and the hot air city group. Tri service was the
reason
>> I got out. To Gunner, if you didn‘t walk the walk, you‘ve got no say. If
>> all you did was a leg land tour then you missed out on probably the
>> greatest experience a man could have in the army. I‘m not talking form
>> experience because I served in the senior Regiment of the senior corps.If
>> all you‘ve heard about Somalia is from what you read and saw on TV, then
>> you didn‘t hear all of the story. Granted what happened was totally
>> disgusting but it was taken care of. If you believe half of what was
shown
>> on TV from 1 Commando, then you‘re very gullible. The media made it a
whole
>> lot worse than what it was. Do you think that Somalia was an isolated
>> incident in the history of our military? Ask guys that were present in
>> Cyprus during the 1st tour there. What about a certain Regiment, in the
>> last couple of years, that has presented a whole bunch of problems in
>> different theaters of UN deployment? You‘re right about it being
>> embarrassing to all of us who have served and are serving, but in my
>> opinion, you don‘t disband a Regiment because a few bad apples screwed up
>> royally. You take care of the immediate problem decisively and swiftly.
>> Obviously the higher ups at the time didn‘t have the smarts or the balls
to
>> do it, and therefore the responsibility lands in their laps for later
>> problems.You‘re right about the Airborne Regiment being gone and it won‘t
>> ever come back but the way it was done and the reasons they gave were
>> nothing but heifer dustpolite eh? I guess what I‘m saying is that you
>> better have a lot more facts than what you have, when you start making
>> statements like you have been. Regards
>>
>> R.D.Bob McGonigal VE3PJF,
>> 10330 Eastcourt Dr.,
>> Windsor, Ontario, N8R1E6, Canada
>> 1-519-735-2920
>> ICQ 1256855
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
>> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
>> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
>> message body.
>--------------------------------------------------------
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Posted by "William J <andy> Anderson" <aanderson@sk.sympatico.ca> on Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:16:38 -0600
on 15/3/00 20:48, Gunner at randr1@home.com wrote:
> One again, I disagree. You have not articulated any logical reason to
> prevent me or anyone else from stating my their opinion of the
> disbandment of the Airborne Regt. I think the disbandment was the right
> thing to do. How much of the hazing rituals do I have to I see to
> "misunderstand" what was going on? How much worse can the media make
> the tapes taken in Somalia?? Was Somalia an isolated incident within
> our military, no I wasn‘t. In modern history post WWII/Korea I would
> hope that Canadians would not take a prisoner and brutally beat and
> murder him yes, a real Kodak moment!. I can tell you it would not
> happen, would not be covered up, if I was in charge of that pl or coy or
> the bn. I hope I can speak for the Sr NCOs and WOs out there.
I‘m not sure that anyone is trying take away your right to ‘state your
opinion‘. You do, however, continue the enuedo that the murder of the
prisoner was going to be ‘covered up‘ I don‘t think this was ever proven. It
was a tradgedy and needed to be dealt with. End of episode.
>
> The other Regt you refer to is, no doubt, the R22R, the teflon
> Regt...they were investigated and cleared of any wrong doing. As for
> the teflon part, I don‘t think so either unless you have proof.
> Anyone who doesn‘t think the Airborne had a strong lobby within the Army
> leading up to its disbandment is sadly mistaken.
Should we read ‘Cover up‘ here? Anyone who thinks the Airborne lobby is
anywhere near as strong as the Van Doo mafia is also sadly mistaken.
>
> I agree it was only a few bad apples that created most of the problems,
> however, there was a problem in the Regt...Officers unable to command
> and NCOs that didnt‘ back up the officers and the men stuck in a
> machismo mystic that ran wild. True it is my perception, however, it is
> the perception of most of my peers, subordinates, superiors, and more
> importantly, The Canadian Public, who, by the way, is my ultimate
> Commander in Chief. All throught the 80s they were refered to as
> "animals". No, it wasn‘t an term of endearment. Oh sorry, we don‘t
> understand, we aren‘t qualified to make our own independent evaluation
> of the situation...it was all a misunderstanding based on those jealous
> of their "elite" status.
Granted it is your perception. It is the perception of people that you know.
My perception is different, as is the perception of my peers, subordinates
and superiors at the time of the incident. The canadian public is too easily
swayed by media and bleeding hearts to ever be an effected ‘comander in
chief‘ as you call them. I‘m not saying you don‘t understand, I‘m saying
you‘re being judgemental. By your own admission, you looked at some tapes,
read some hogwash and made a judgement. Right or wrong, nobody can take away
your right to do that.
>
>
> Anyway, I think our debate could continue for an extremely long time. I
> may argue it was the right thing to do under the circumstances, but, no
> soldier should ever have to see his Regt disbanded. It was a sad
> chapter in the Canadian Army.
The sadder chapter, was the way everyone cried foul when they jumped on the
anti-airborne bandwagon, and in the same breath cry foul when it was
disbaned. Fence sitting? Now that, is a truly Canadian stance!
arte et marte
andy sends
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Posted by Robert McGonigal <bobmcg@mnsi.net> on Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:04:12 -0500
To Gunner, I apologize. You‘re right about the Artillery being senior. I
am so used to saying it to my son and son in law who was and is in the
PPCLI. Armoured and Infantry rivalry. Your mind is set on what you think so
no matter what I or anyone else says, will sway you. Your hindsight is good
although I would really like to have seen you in the Airborne and act the
way you say you would. You and I will never know.
A couple more memories!
How about ironing the BD on your barrack box with blanket, wool,
red for one, as the pad and as was said, cotton dish towel, wet, so the BD
wouldn‘t burn from the iron, even if the iron was a steam iron. To this day
I still do the ironing around here as I do it better than my wife. She‘ll
tell you that, hmmmmm maybe she‘s outsmarted me!!! 31 years worth of being
outsmarted!!!! I‘ll have to speak with her. I still have my Battledress but
because it was left in the box for so long it shrunk. My TWs also. Can‘t
understand it at all.
I remember when a company of US Marines came to Gagetown to do
winter training. They stayed in our shack and took over our rooms. Just
before they left us, they cleaned everything plus waxed and polished the
floors, including the hallway floors, which were never waxed and polished
by us. Needless to say when trying to walk on those floors with dress boots
on it was like watching a bunch of kids learning to skate. Two and a half
soles with horseshoe cleats and some with hob nails. Weeeeeeeeeee.
R.D.Bob McGonigal VE3PJF,
10330 Eastcourt Dr.,
Windsor, Ontario, N8R1E6, Canada
1-519-735-2920
ICQ 1256855
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Posted by Robert McGonigal <bobmcg@mnsi.net> on Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:21:26 -0500
More memories I remember whilst practicing for a big parade, just
how much authority the RSM had in the Regiment. The officers were on parade
drilling with us peons and we had been going at it for a good amount of
time. The RSM was running the drill and during a break, a Captain, whose
name I can‘t remember, said to Scarpy, "Regimental Sgt. Major, I think the
officers have had enough drill for now". The RSM, who was well liked by the
men of the Regiment, endeared himself even more to us, when he said," No
sir I don‘t think so", and just as he said they kept on practicing with the
rest of us.
I also remember doing an orders parade as an escort and Scarpy
marched the accused and myself into the Colonel‘s office. I don‘t think my
feet ever moved as fast as they did when he barked out the cadence. I felt
as if I was up on charge also. The Colonel LT. Colonel Pat Grieve gave
the usual," 30 days without a doubt, Sgt. Major march them out". Battle
Dress on an orders parade, in an office that seemed to be 95 degrees, makes
ones body loose water content and ones mouth becomes very, very dry.
Larry might remember the fellow that did basic with us. He was the
one who we would try to get him to march without the arms matching the legs
when marching. We used broom handles and marched behind him to try to break
him of his awkward habit. I don‘t think he made it through basic training.
> Anyway another couple of memories to add to the bunch. Regards.
>
>
>
>
>
R.D.Bob McGonigal VE3PJF,
10330 Eastcourt Dr.,
Windsor, Ontario, N8R1E6, Canada
1-519-735-2920
ICQ 1256855
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Posted by "Gerry Bourgeois" <gerrybourgeois@sympatico.ca> on Thu, 1 Jun 2000 16:52:11 -0400
thanks for your feed back on this matter. I am trying to organize the
largest Cadet Corps reunion in Canada at Camp Ipperwash.
If any of you can help in this matter it would be greatly appreciated.
Gerry Bourgeois, Commandant
Ipperwash Reunion 2001
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Posted by R Charette in Silicon Valley <charette@computer.org> on Thu, 01 Jun 2000 15:02:47 -0700
Gerry:
Could you deactivate your "request for a reply" option on your email
software? It‘s kind of "non-standard" to ask for one, and I‘m sure most
don‘t like it.
Just a feedback.
-- RC
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Posted by "Gerry Bourgeois" <gerrybourgeois@sympatico.ca> on Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:19:54 -0400
Request for reply closed.
Thanks
Gerry
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Posted by "F. A." <zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net> on Thu, 01 Jun 2000 17:16:31 -0600
--------------E8E14530DD3DD9F62AFBC9C0
Gerry,
Please feel free to contact me, I was involved in both of the
Vernon Army Cadet Camp reunions in 1994 and ‘99. Much to let you know
about. Drop me a line at my email address with your phone if you don‘t
mind, way too much to type. -
Francois
Gerry Bourgeois wrote:
> thanks for your feed back on this matter. I am trying to organize the
> largest Cadet Corps reunion in Canada at Camp Ipperwash.
>
> If any of you can help in this matter it would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Gerry Bourgeois, Commandant
> Ipperwash Reunion 2001
>
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--------------E8E14530DD3DD9F62AFBC9C0
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telwork:403 282-6100
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org:AVS IncCorporate Broadcast Video Production since 1987
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emailinternet:zzzzzzz@telusplanet.net
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Posted by "Gerry Bourgeois" <gerrybourgeois@sympatico.ca> on Thu, 1 Jun 2000 19:52:12 -0400
Bonjour Francois:
Mon numero telephone:
416: 530-7496
Ci vous etes plus confortables en francais, pas de problem.
Gerry
If you are more comfortable in French or English, no problem
Gerry
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Posted by james.hanna@ca.pwcglobal.com on Fri, 02 Jun 2000 11:46:30 -0400
Salut, RC,
My understanding of the phrase "Je me souviens" is that its source is a 19th
century poem
which in English tranlated: "I remember though I was born under the lily, I
flourished under the rose"
Lily = France, rose = England. As far as the interpretation of "rose" and
"lily", givent the symbols used
by both those countries, it is a fairly reasonable assumption.
I didn‘t mean to imply that the phrase solely refers to the French withdrawal -
I realize I wrote that poorly - but if the above source is
correct, it does refer to remembering both sides of the heritage of Quebec. The
poem, at any rate, reflects a more
ambiguous view of life in Quebec under British rule. I only wanted to make the
point to some on this net that the phrase,
insomuch as it is sourced from the above poem - is a lot more nuanced than most
today would like to see it.
In the end, of course you‘re right - its an interpretation of a phrase
attributed to a poem which itself needs to be interpreted.
If you say that the phrase does not come from that poem, I can‘t arque - I only
know what I‘ve read, so if the source is in dispute, so be it.
After all, its not exactly an uncommon phrase. On the other hand, if it does
come from that poem, than it is not an impossible stretch to view it
as a positive comment on life in lower Canada after French rule.
As for "it is certainly not up the English-Canadians to tell us what to think of
France‘s behaviour to give up
Nouvelle-France. It‘s up to French-Canadians to make their own homeworks and
decide by themselves what they want to think of it."
I wasn‘t telling you what to think - I was giving you my interpretation of what
French Canadiens thought in the 19th century. I may be wrong,
and if you have any sources that counter my interpretation, I am genuinely
interested in reading it. I hope you aren‘t advocating that the only ones
entitled to study and comment on Quebec history are French-Canadiens. From my
reading of history, there was not a lot of love lost between the leaders in
Quebec at that time and France - and that was from a course I took with a
decidedly sovereignist professor.
Je m‘excuse, que je n‘est pas ecrit mon reponse en francais - j‘ai besoin
beaucoup de pratique, et je manque le vocubulaire et grammaire
pour un reponse propre en francais. Si je ne suis pas clair en anglais, je
ferai certainnemant des erreurs en francais!
A bien tt,
James
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Posted by R Charette in Silicon Valley <charette@computer.org> on Fri, 02 Jun 2000 20:09:38 -0700
No problems James. Thanks for reply. That was truly appreciated. I just
in fact got out of an argument with one of my French-Canadian FC
friend who‘s totally nationalistic in nature. I‘m much more on the
"canadian" side of things. I guess my point was merely to mention that
it‘s still a pretty hot topic around. I wouldn‘t be surprised that many
FCs consider the interpretation of "Je Me Souviens" a FC exercise
although I disagree.
Moreover, thanks for the words in French. This is truly the sign of a
21st century Canadian which I hope I am as well.
More to come...
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Knowledge Management Group Phone: 408 543-5342
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