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Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS

Colin Parkinson

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Well, I drove Rally when she was in the reserve fleet, and my recolection is twin diesel driving screws. Maybe Colin can correct me if I am wrong.

Maybe you have a different R-class in mind. These were dinky toy little 95 footers used as SAR cutters with pretty small engine compartment. Diesel electric drives would have been pretty complex things to put in such small vessels. Besides, I distinctly remember that we had to "click" the throttles in at the lowest setting and wait a second or two for the screws to engage before we could slowly ramp up the RPMs, which to me is indicative of a fixed pitch screws on diesel driven shafts - not electric motors.

Perhaps it is the MCDVs you have in mind. They are diesel electric ships set up the same way as the AOPS (or rather, the AOPS are set up like the MCDVs because "chicken and egg").
Spent a lot of time on the Ready and Racer
They started with Twin Cummings for propulsion through individual gearboxs , shaft and screws. There were two Cat generators on either side. Later the CCCG replaced the Cummings with DEUTZ's. One Generator was hard mounted to run fire pump. That one rattled your teeth running, so we ran it for the first week of patrol and then switched to the quiet one for the 2nd.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Does that beat the previous furthest north record for the RCN set by a Kingston class a few year ago?
 

Colin Parkinson

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305074571_455475446614792_4306212291452239900_n.jpg


Our Navy family is growing!
#HMCSMaxBernays was delivered today marking an important milestone for your Navy -- a new ship for our fleet, and a new unit for the crew to call their own!
MAX BERNAYS is our third Arctic and Offshore Patrol Ships. These multifunctional vessels enhance Canada's Arctic presence, and increase our capability of participating in a wide variety of international operations, and undertake a diverse range of missions worldwide
 

Weinie

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305074571_455475446614792_4306212291452239900_n.jpg


Our Navy family is growing!
#HMCSMaxBernays was delivered today marking an important milestone for your Navy -- a new ship for our fleet, and a new unit for the crew to call their own!
MAX BERNAYS is our third Arctic and Offshore Patrol Ships. These multifunctional vessels enhance Canada's Arctic presence, and increase our capability of participating in a wide variety of international operations, and undertake a diverse range of missions worldwide
That is a cool looking ship.
 

ArmyRick

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Sorry to ask but I am a retired ground pounder. Can someone explain more about the ship breaking ice? Is that a lot of ice? Can bigger naval ships do that or know?

Basically I need an ice breaking and ships primer. thanks navy guys.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Sorry to ask but I am a retired ground pounder. Can someone explain more about the ship breaking ice? Is that a lot of ice? Can bigger naval ships do that or know?

Basically I need an ice breaking and ships primer. thanks navy guys.
The AOP's is a light icebreaker with a PC 5 hull and PC 4 bow (ice class explained here Polar Class - Wikipedia)

This is roughly equivalent to the Coast Guard 1100 class light icebreakers/buoy tenders and is quite suitable for spring, summer and fall Arctic ice conditions. Some people criticise that level of ice breaking, but in reality the CCG itself only have a handful of ships with higher ice class and even the Russians don't have that many ships that can go into winter Arctic ice. The AOPs can also go into tropical waters if need be and that is highly unusual for a Arctic capable ship. So you may see them operating in the High North and off of West Africa or the Caribbean. Who knows maybe one day they visit the Antarctic?

As a ex-Coast Guard guy I quite like these ships and am impressed with them, I am critical of the armament choices, but that's it. As the Frigates get older and older, expect these to fill a lot of missions until the CSC's come into service. The crews I spoke to really like their ship and they are very comfortable to live on.
 

suffolkowner

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when you look at the ice up north there doesn't seem to be a lot of thick multi year ice left at least at the end of the season
 

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suffolkowner

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Depends where you pull data.

View attachment 73280
I think they are not so different. My image is a forecast for Aug 18th by the US Navy while yours appears to be up to date from University of Bremen. The University of Bremen tops off at greater than 50 cm while the US Navy has greater detail up to a possible 5m
 

KevinB

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I think they are not so different. My image is a forecast for Aug 18th by the US Navy while yours appears to be up to date from University of Bremen. The University of Bremen tops off at greater than 50 cm while the US Navy has greater detail up to a possible 5m
My only point was there are a lot of maps out there, and the Multi-year ice seems to vary on many of them.
 

suffolkowner

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My only point was there are a lot of maps out there, and the Multi-year ice seems to vary on many of them.
Where do you see that? Ok when I first read your post I thought it said 5m. The graphs are going to differ as they are using different algorithims to extrapolate over area. They are not meant as navigation tools. The Bremen doesn't have the resolution to say that it differs to me

Here is an updated one from the US Navy
 

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KevinB

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Fair point.

I was just trying to show that multiple sites had some different data - and while the Bremen map didn’t have more info on greater thicknesses (and suffered from @Good2Golf Santa Blackout Zone) the coverage of the ice seemed to differ.


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As the NOAA data shows - it may be moot anyway as Multiyear ice is on a significant decline.
 

YZT580

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Fair point.

I was just trying to show that multiple sites had some different data - and while the Bremen map didn’t have more info on greater thicknesses (and suffered from @Good2Golf Santa Blackout Zone) the coverage of the ice seemed to differ.


View attachment 73315

As the NOAA data shows - it may be moot anyway as Multiyear ice is on a significant decline.
An obvious observation is; before you can have multi-year ice you need annual ice that doesn't melt. For the last several years we have had relatively mild summers so the multi-ice has tended to diminish. Much of the loss in ice was produced by strong currents and winds that caused the ice to be driven away from sheltered areas and out into the open waters where the currents and temperatures combined to break it up. This year, for the first time in a while, we have a significant amount of first year ice remaining which will harden further and contribute to the ice pack this winter. Another year or two of this and we will be back where we were in the 70s. What goes around comes around.
 

suffolkowner

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Fair point.

I was just trying to show that multiple sites had some different data - and while the Bremen map didn’t have more info on greater thicknesses (and suffered from @Good2Golf Santa Blackout Zone) the coverage of the ice seemed to differ.


View attachment 73315

As the NOAA data shows - it may be moot anyway as Multiyear ice is on a significant decline.
Yes and I think that ice will not be a significant deterrent to AOPS conceived deployments. Time will tell on how hard they get pushed at the beginning and end of the melt season
 

Underway

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Sorry to ask but I am a retired ground pounder. Can someone explain more about the ship breaking ice? Is that a lot of ice? Can bigger naval ships do that or know?

Basically I need an ice breaking and ships primer. thanks navy guys.
For ice thickness and age are the important measurements. Icebreakers push ice downwards to break it using the weight of their hull. Its easier to push down into water then across into more ice. Older ice is more dense, which is why we use the "multiyear ice" label. Also "ice inclusitions" generally referes to bits of multiyear ice inside a bunch of first year ice. Harder rocks mixed into the soil so to speak. AOPS is rated to 1m thick first with ice inclusions. In practice it was engineered to do better than that.

@Colin Parkinson did a great job explaining how capable AOPS are. They are going to be able to deal with anything the NWP and area throw at them for most of the AO during the 6 summer months. Winter is not a time to be sailing up there unless you're doing research or something.

@Stoker or anyone else, when the MAX slated to switch over to the Pacific?
 
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