Allowances - Post Living Differential (PLD) [MERGED]

[McG]

Having a cost of living allowance is not unique to military pers - it exists for all the public service as well. Scrapping military PLD while leaving the equivalent system in the PS would be horribly bad optics for any governemt.  While the TB may have some secret plan to scrap this pay for everyone, there is no evidence that I have seen to support such a claim.  In fact, all evidence raised in the article can be attributed to the non-stable nature of PLD as a mechanism to compensate for high (and variable year-to-year) geographic costs of living.

The choice to use the NCR as the benchmark location a few years ago would have been a cost saving effort - the largest group of federal public servants is in the NCR so using that location as benchmark significantly reduced the number of people (military & PS) recieving this money.

The warnings not to plan on PLD for major financial decisions has been around as long as PLD has been around.  This is not a forshadowing of a plan to eliminate PLD, it is a recognition that PLD has never been a stable source of income.  Any given location (except the NCR) may see PLD drop or rise from year to year, and PLD can be taken away with a posting message.

 

[Pusser]

Having a cost of living allowance is not unique to military pers - it exists for all the public service as well. Scrapping military PLD while leaving the equivalent system in the PS would be horribly bad optics for any governemt.  While the TB may have some secret plan to scrap this pay for everyone, there is no evidence that I have seen to support such a claim.  In fact, all evidence raised in the article can be attributed to the non-stable nature of PLD as a mechanism to compensate for high (and variable year-to-year) geographic costs of living.

The choice to use the NCR as the benchmark location a few years ago would have been a cost saving effort - the largest group of federal public servants is in the NCR so using that location as benchmark significantly reduced the number of people (military & PS) recieving this money.

The warnings not to plan on PLD for major financial decisions has been around as long as PLD has been around.  This is not a forshadowing of a plan to eliminate PLD, it is a recognition that PLD has never been a stable source of income.  Any given location (except the NCR) may see PLD drop or rise from year to year, and PLD can be taken away with a posting message.

The Public Service does not receive anything similar to PLD.  There may still exist a few pockets of folks affected by regional rates of pay, but the government has largely phased that out.

 

[jollyjacktar]

And we, I'll bet my life on it are next.

 

[Strike]

And we, I'll bet my life on it are next.

And if it is going to happen it won't be until after the election and the government has been accepted, so some time still.

Stop the fear-mongering.

 

[Pusser]

I get a little tired of the great conspiracy theories.  Why does everybody always think the worst?  Nobody, including Treasury Board members or those involved in compensation and benefits policy at DND, lies awake at night thinking up ways to screw over CF personnel.  This is all just another rumour, without basis in any identified fact.  PLD may well be restructured in an effort to better perform its intended purpose, but a lot of thought has been and will be put into any changes and a lot of effort will be made to eliminate, or at least minimize any potential shafting.  Individual CF members will not be expected to sacrifice more than any other Canadian.  The folks at NDHQ and Treasury Board really do work very hard to produce the best possible outcome.

 

[the 48th regulator]

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCUQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fipolitics.ca%2F2011%2F04%2F27%2Fmackay-denies-cut-to-cost-of-living-allowance-for-canadian-military%2F&ei=WTG7TcaIKaXc0QGUtbHtBQ&usg=AFQjCNE-pX5Lt6C4irwNXNoCG2IvDZrFUw




MacKay denies cut to cost of living allowance for Canadian military

Posted on Wed, Apr 27, 2011, 9:19 pm by Canadian Press
TRURO, N.S. – Defence Minister Peter MacKay says nothing is going to happen to the cost-of-living allowance received by thousands of members of the Canadian military.

The Post Living Differential Allowance goes to servicemen and women who live in high-cost cities.

A change that began April 1 saw that money removed from the paycheques of Forces’ members and deposited separately.

The Canadian Press reported this week that senior non-commissioned officers at several bases have been warning the rank and file that the change is the first step toward possible elimination of the assistance.

MacKay said Wednesday night that the difference is nothing more than an administrative change.

He said the allowance is still being delivered in the same amount but it’s no longer in a lump-sum deposit.

“There is no change to the amount of PLD that is being administered under a Conservative government,” he said while campaigning in his riding of Central Nova.

“There will be no decrease in anyone’s paycheque and, in fact, I think if you speak to members of the Forces, they’ll tell you that their paycheque has been going up under a Conservative government.”

The last federal budget introduced by the Conservative government called for cuts to the Defence Department of $500 million this year and $1 billion in each of the next two years.

But even with the cuts, MacKay said a re-elected Conservative government would not touch the cost-of-living allowance, which amounts to $150 million a year.

“We’re conducting what’s called a strategic review. We’ve already completed one that occurred last year and was submitted to the Treasury Board,” he said.

“That type of review is all about finding efficiencies in internal operating and administrative costs in all government departments.”

 

[Scoobs]

Okay, did the search for TPLD and this thread came up.  Here's my situation.  I'm posted to Ottawa, which is a TPLD area.  I'm currently in a TPLD area.  I was told by my current Base's OR that I would lose TPLD, even though I'm going to an area that has it, i.e. Ottawa.  The TPLD in Ottawa is not just chump change, as it is where I am now.  The TPLD, prior to income tax, is around 136 (me thinks !!!) The exact amount doesn't matter, I'm just curious as to why I won't get it.

Being one for actually reading the regs and fine print, I read the applicable orders.  No where in them does it say that you will lose TPLD at a certain date.  This is contrary to the stuff that I'm told.  When I bring this up to all the clerks that I can find, I only get blank stares back, i.e. they really don't know the regs, etc.  Also, no where does it say that I shouldn't get TPLD in a new area after being posted by the military.  Thus, where is this info coming from?  Maybe there are clarification orders or an old CANFORGEN that clarifies this, but I can't find them. 

A point to note, prior to anyone posting "go look at the regs", I am very conversant with the CF's orders due to my previous postings and current posting.  In other words, I'm not a newbie when it comes to mil admin.

Also, I never make plans based on TPLD or PLD, it is "nice" money to have for most of the locations that I have been posted.  I would agree with most in this thread that for places that are much more expensive, removing TPLD or PLD will cause financial hardship for the mbrs.  If it wouldn't, then the obvious rhetorical question would be, "why have it in the first place???"

If it is actually true that I will not receive the Ottawa TPLD, then so be it, but I am one that will demand to see the regs.  I'm not trying to be an a*s, I'm only stating what 13 and a half years of experience has taught me when it comes to financial orders/regs/etc.  If it is true, then the situation would be that someone who hasn't moved from Ottawa in the last 10 years (which is really feasible if the person plays it right) would essentially have a higher income (call it what you want, it is additional money that is taxed at source as income, you can't argue with this).  How can this possibly be interpreted as fair by anyone?  I'm more than aware that rules are not necessarily fair, but this one is so obvious, I am amazed that this has never come up as an issue before???  At my unit I've never heard any of my newly posted in mbrs complaining of this.  Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill or is it really true that I will not be entitled to TPLD in Ottawa when I get there this APS?  If you know the exact reg or ref, please post it here.  It doesn't have to be linked, I just need the ref.

Thanks in advance.

 

[dapaterson]

See CBI 205.452.  It explains the "why" of TPLD.  If you're posted, you're entitled to the PLD at the new location - and if the PLD there is zero, you get zero.  Once you leave the TPLD Area, you lose the entitlement to it.

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/pub/cbi-dra/205-eng.asp#sec-45

 

[Scoobs]

So, I re-read the CBI and I think that I have the two applicable quotes in my case:

205.452(3) (Application) Subject to paragraph (4), this instruction applies to:
a.a member of Group A who meets the conditions of CBI 205.45 (Post Living Differential), and who’s principle residence was located in a TPLDA listed in the Table to this instruction at any time after 30 June 2007, but before 1 April 2008; or
b.a member of Group B who meets the conditions of CBI 205.45 (Post Living Differential), and who’s principle residence was located in a TPLDA listed in the Table to this instruction at any time after 30 June 2007, but before 1 April 2009.

205.452(6) (Cease Date – Transitional Post Living Differential) The entitlement to TPLD shall cease on the earlier day of the following:
a.the member’s principle residence is no longer located within the TPLDA;
b.the member’s PLD in CBI 205.45 (Post Living Differential) is greater than the TPLD in the Table to this instruction;
c.the TPLD monthly rate is 50$ or less; or
d.the effective period for the TPLD in the Table to this instruction has expired.

So, from what I read, because I am leaving "the" TPLD area of my current Base, 205.452(6)a. applies and obviously this means no more TPLD for me at my old Base's rate.  I assume that I will not get any TPLD in Ottawa because of 205.452(3) and that I'm moving into my new residence post 2008 or 2009.  Thus, I do not fall within para a or b of 205.452(3) and thus CBI 205.452 does not apply to me in Ottawa and we all know that no PLD exists for the "standard city" of Ottawa-Gatineau.  Yayyyy, I get screwed again !!!  So, effectively the PLD and TPLD CBIs have created "two" tiers of pay, one for those who are lucky enough to never get posted out of a TPLD area and one for those who are posted !!!  Wasn't this obvious to the higher ups in NDHQ that this would eventually happen??

Also, this may have been asked already in this thread, but why was Ottawa-Gatineau chosen as the "standard city"?  I would like more of an answer than just "there are so many public servants in Ottawa".  What is the rationalization behind this?

 

[EpicBeardedMan]

Was just curious if some civvie could call the BOR and inquire about a member's PLD status. I thought our info was Protected A or B at least?

 

[ModlrMike]

Not so much can a civvie call the BOR, rather can the BOR give out the info. To that question, the answer is no. If they have done, complain loudly. A person's specific pay details are covered by privacy regulations.

 

[RubberTree]

The BOR may not give out info...but rates are accessible online for landlords or roomates willing to do the work.
RT

 

[CountDC]

When it comes to personel information including pay they can not give it out even to you without verifying your ID.  Over the phone you should be required to provide the PIN/W you have set up on your pay account.  Spouse wants the info? Better have documentation signed by you on file stating you grant them access to your pay.

 

[Pusser]

The BOR cannot give out specific information on an individual.  However, they can give out general information (e.g. a corporal with X years service normally receives $Y per month and if entitled to PLD may receive $Z per month, etc.  In other words, they can give out information that is publicly available.

In the old days, it was easier to simply provide this information if requested.  Nowadays, they need only direct folks to a website.

 

[EpicBeardedMan]

Can a civvie find out if youre on pld or not? I find it hard to believe that the person im renting from can call the BOR and then ask a PO for information regarding my PLD..

 

[ballz]

They can't... but they can go online and find out how much a member in your area receives for PLD.

More to the point, why the F**K does your landlord want to know? It's none of his/her business and that's what I'd be making clear to him/her.

 

[211RadOp]

It is easy to find out.  I put PLD Rates Halifax in a google seach and the first hit was the DGCB site with the CFG that covers PLD for all of Canada.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Reviving necrothread to add this:

Wanted:  Someone to calculate the latest Post Living Differential formula

Statement of work with more details attached.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Can a civvie find out if youre on pld or not? I find it hard to believe that the person im renting from can call the BOR and then ask a PO for information regarding my PLD..

It sounds like
1)  The BOR can't tell a stranger phoning about your particular PLD status or how much you, personally, receive.
2)  The BOR may be able to speak in general terms about how much someone in a certain situation may get.
3)  Other folks here say anyone with access to the internet can find out PLD rates for specific cities/areas.

 

[EpicBeardedMan]

The issue is, i gave my landlord (not really the landlord as this woman lives in the house and i pay my rent to her, aka subletting). 15 days notice that i was moving out. There are numerous reasons for this. Anyway the point is i told her my pld was being cancelled because i was trying to avoid any personal feelings being hurt over me moving out. regardless, i found someone to replace me so there rent starts sept 1st. she contacted the bor to find out if i was receiving pld or not and apparently was told i am. so shes refusing to give me back my deposit (most likely because she spent it) on the grounds that i lied to her.