All things beardy-2005 to 2018 (merged)

[Infanteer]

Check with your chain of command.  IIRC, there was a Task Force policy that required the TF Surgeon to sign off on beards in theater to avoid a bunch of bearded soldiers carrying weak "no-shave" chits from Base MIRs.  At least this was the case with a few of my soldiers.

 

[Pusser]

So, I guess the three weeks I spent at the Bug School to become a CBRN Operator are all bullshit then. All the testing and drills are just put in place to frig with bearded personnel. Tell you what, just keep doing what your doing. I'll teach my guys the proper way to protect themselves according to the tested methods and as long as they are under my care they'll do it properly. Or I guess they can go join the Navy.

The reg about beards and masks is far from new. Its been around for the 35 years I've been serving.

I don't care how long the policy has been around.  It's flawed and applies a blanket approach to an individual issue.  Not everybody can get a seal with a beard, but then again, not everbody who is clean shaven can get a seal either.  My argument is that I can get a seal, so I shouldn't have to shave.  I'm not saying that this is true for everyone.

PS:  I'm no neophyte to CBRN either.

 

[Stoker]

I too have been fit tested for the C4 gas mask, fire hawk SCBA, Chemox and did so with a beard in accordance with fit testing procedures. As long as you can get a seal you're good to go.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Like I said, you Navy guys do whatever you want.

Until you get B-GJ-005-311/FP-020 changed, we'll stick with the current official direction. It's my ass when something happens because the directive is disregarded on my watch, not that of some faceless hairy navy guy.

 

[TN2IC]

Check with your chain of command.  IIRC, there was a Task Force policy that required the TF Surgeon to sign off on beards in theater to avoid a bunch of bearded soldiers carrying weak "no-shave" chits from Base MIRs.  At least this was the case with a few of my soldiers.

This is the correct policy. I just had the briefing last week while getting on the ground here in the sandbox.

 

[392]

This is the correct policy. I just had the briefing last week while getting on the ground here in the sandbox.

The problem with that blanket policy (as it was when I raised objections to it when it first surfaced on 3-08) is that cannot apply to MELs - they aren't "weak" shave chits, they're a medical category. One of my soldiers was on an MEL for shaving, and the amount of non-common sense flying around there WRT that MEL was ridiculous.

I understand that policy and why it is in place, but it needs to be directed at the right audience.

 

[Big Red]

So what is the CBRN threat in Afghanistan?

Why is this such an issue?

 

[PuckChaser]

You can turn that around real easily and say why is having a beard such an issue? If you have a MEL limitation/religious grounds and are allowed to have a beard, go for it. But expect a little bit of scrutiny because its not supposed to be common place.

 

[George Wallace]

So what is the CBRN threat in Afghanistan?

Why is this such an issue?

The CBRN was a "Red Herring" someone brought into the discussion.  It has nothing to do with Afghanistan, but with beards in general.  It was a "topic derailer".

 

[OldSolduer]

Thte problem is that the originator of this post doesn't like his Pl 2IC scrutinizing him. Look at the tone of his post.

Suck it buttercup.

 

[Big Red]

Thte problem is that the originator of this post doesn't like his Pl 2IC scrutinizing him. Look at the tone of his post.

Suck it buttercup.

He has a medical chit not to shave, yet is being made to for "operational reasons"

Hi, I'd like to know where, exactly, can I find the order-instruction-message ordering the shaving of beards for flight day?

Is it a Canlandgen, Canforgen or something else ?

I'm an infantryman eith the medical O3 shaving restriction, y'know' 'can't shave unless ordered so for operationnal reasons'. So, I'd like to check and make sure I'm not being played by a power hungry, beard hater velcro wearing Platoon 2IC.

So what operational reason is there in Afghanistan to negate his no shave chit?

 

[OldSolduer]

Take note of the tone: "I'd like to check and make sure I'm not being played by a power hungry, beard hater velcro wearing Platoon 2IC"

The unprofessional and childish tone is what sets my spider senses off.

The Pl Second in Command is doing his job, as directed from higher.

 

[Kiwi99]

I agree with Jim and the others ref this.  Unless your face falls off every time you shave, then you shave.  A beard in afghanistan, even a week without shaving, is unbearable, especially during the summer months.  yes, at times you may not shave.  This is based on  water rationing, extended patrols etc. But as soon as these limitations are gone then you run a blade over your face.

I remember last year when the Vandoo BG showed up and everywhere you looked there were beards, even some of the women!  Soldiers weren't doing up helmets properly because of their beards properly because of their beards, they weren't maintaining them to CF regulations, they looked unkempt and stupid.  When the order came down from TFK HQ to shave there was outrage.  yet, the soldier shaved and low and behold, they were fine.

For some reason soldiers think that just because they are in Afghanistan they don't need to shave.  Where this mentality comes from I have no idea.  But it is a silly mentality.  Soldiers and leadership have bigger issues to worry about than shaving.  Like I said earlier, unless your face falls off every time you shave THEN SHAVE.

 

[Michael OLeary]

He has a medical chit not to shave, yet is being made to for "operational reasons"

Actually, he claims to have a medical chit, and that is all we know. It's not like it was scanned and added to the post so we can see exactly what he has.

Who wrote it this particular chit? How long ago? And was it connected to specific medical or other conditions at the time?

Is it a current chit recently written  (or recently re-written) by the medical staff of the deploying unit?  Or is it a crumpled, possibly self-laminated, chit he's been carrying and leaning on for years?

The bottom line is, we don't have all the facts, either medical or otherwise, and we are working with one side of a story which is carrying it's own bias against what he's been told.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Actually, he claims to have a medical chit, and that is all we know. It's not like it was scanned and added to the post so we can see exactly what he has.

Who wrote it this particular chit? How long ago? And was it connected to specific medical or other conditions at the time?

Is it a current chit recently written  (or recently re-written) by the medical staff of the deploying unit?  Or is it a crumpled, possibly self-laminated, chit he's been carrying and leaning on for years?

The bottom line is, we don't have all the facts, either medical or otherwise, and we are working with one side of a story which is carrying it's own bias against what he's been told.

I'm an infantryman eith the medical O3 shaving restriction, y'know' 'can't shave unless ordered so for operationnal reasons'.

Actually, he claims to have a "medical category".  If his claim is taken at face value (and his obvious 'attitude' is overlooked) then it is likely the documentation surrounding his medical condition is more extensive than simply a "chit" saying no shaving.  However, having a medical category (with the specific MEL he states) does not automatically grant him immunity from any future familiarity with a razor.  Whatever he does to avoid shaving is probably going to p*ss off his Pl 2IC, so if he wants to press the matter he should request that the order to shave be put in writing and copies placed in both his pers and medical records so that "he is covered medically in case there are any adverse reactions".  Now, if such a request were to trigger a re-evaluation of his medical condition, there is a possibility that the category could be made even more restrictive - to the point that he is undeployable, thus unemployable, thus releasable.

 

[ModlrMike]

Actually, he claims to have a "medical category".  If his claim is taken at face value (and his obvious 'attitude' is overlooked) then it is likely the documentation surrounding his medical condition is more extensive than simply a "chit" saying no shaving.  However, having a medical category (with the specific MEL he states) does not automatically grant him immunity from any future familiarity with a razor.  Whatever he does to avoid shaving is probably going to p*ss off his Pl 2IC, so if he wants to press the matter he should request that the order to shave be put in writing and copies placed in both his pers and medical records so that "he is covered medically in case there are any adverse reactions".  Now, if such a request were to trigger a re-evaluation of his medical condition, there is a possibility that the category could be made even more restrictive - to the point that he is undeployable, thus unemployable, thus releasable.

Exactly, he need's to be mindful of the "law of unintended consequences".

 

[OldSolduer]

Exactly, he need's to be mindful of the "law of unintended consequences".

Yes and acting like a prima donna doesn't help his case. I wonder...would he be so insubordinate to hs Pl 2IC face to face.....?

 

[ModlrMike]

Yes and acting like a prima donna doesn't help his case. I wonder...would he be so insubordinate to hs Pl 2IC face to face.....?

Ah... the false sense of security blanket of internet anonymity.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The OPs attitude in his first post was crap.
People can (sometimes) get fed up with BS answers from leadership that are grounded in convenience and not fact.
There is next to zero NBC threat in Afghanistan so "shaving so you can get a seal on your mask" isn't that strong of a reason.
Wearing a beard in Afghanistan is narsty.
Shaving is only loosely enforced at the FOBs unless it changed.
Soldiers who abuse the chit system and get crap like shaving chits for the LCF and just because they can - ruin it for people with legitimate reasons. (Same way people abused the boot chit system)
Canada has a pickle up it's bum, when it comes to looking like garrison soldiers on a parade in a war zone.
The people  most concerned about troops shaving and wearing boot bands or having their sleeve cuffs buttoned up aren't the ones being sent home with the flag over them.
The OPs attitude set the tone for this thread and it wouldn't have ended any other way than a bun fight.

 

[OldSolduer]

The OPs attitude in his first post was crap.Canada has a pickle up it's bum, when it comes to looking like garrison soldiers on a parade in a war zone.
The people mos[i/] concerned about troops shaving and wearing boot bands or having their sleeve cuffs buttoned up aren't the ones being sent home with the flag over them.
The OPs attitude set the tone for this thread and it wouldn't have ended any other way than a bun fight.

I agree with the italics. I know this from experience.....I'm not concerned with how a troop looks for the most part on operations. Performance counts.