Alberta Schools; pick your own gender and bathroom

[Maxadia]

Really? If people start treating all people better because a minority group changed the way some things are done?

Yes, really.  If the majority now has to change everything due to a minority, then no, it does not become better for "many many more people".

In a years time, just ask the female athletes when a bunch of Gr. 12 6 foot+ 200lb + male trouble makers across the country start identifying as junior female athletes.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I just posted something that applies to a couple of the points you mention.

Thanks brother, I'll have a read of it!

I see your point about the religious crazies flipping out on this stuff but isn't that where acceptance through education helps with change?

With religion, specifically Islam? No.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

So, the 6 foot 200 pound female should be forced to go play with boys?

Or maybe, as has been suggested in some sports, weight classes may be a better way of doing things?

I play roller derby. I play with trans people. They are players, they are not "male" or "female" in my eyes. They are "teammate" or "opposing team" in my eyes, because what exists between their legs, who they have relations with doesn't matter to me...

I'll admit, my eyes were not as open three years ago as they are these days but having been a part of a sport that educates and understands how  things work has been very helpful.

 

[Maxadia]

So, the 6 foot 200 pound female should be forced to go play with boys?

Or maybe, as has been suggested in some sports, weight classes may be a better way of doing things?

I play roller derby. I play with trans people. They are players, they are not "male" or "female" in my eyes. They are "teammate" or "opposing team" in my eyes, because what exists between their legs, who they have relations with doesn't matter to me...

I'll admit, my eyes were not as open three years ago as they are these days but having been a part of a sport that educates and understands how  things work has been very helpful.

You playing roller derby on a school team?

Edit: Further to that, are you in school still?  Just because you understand how the system works as an adult does not mean that non-adult students will not take advantage of it to cause havoc.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

You playing roller derby on a school team?

Edit: Further to that, are you in school still?  Just because you understand how the system works as an adult does not mean that non-adult students will not take advantage of it to cause havoc.

And you're suggesting that teachers are stupid and won't realise that they're being played?

I'm saying to suggest that a 6 foot 200 pound person is only dangerous because they are male is a silly thing.

 

[Maxadia]

And you're suggesting that teachers are stupid and won't realise that they're being played?

Doesn't make a difference when there is a policy in place that can be played with.

I'm saying to suggest that a 6 foot 200 pound person is only dangerous because they are male is a silly thing.

No, you were stating that this would be better for "many many more people". I'm simply providing one example of where someone who wishes to cause trouble could easily do so, affecting a great many people and providing an undesirable outcome for the majority.  If it is truly a transgender issue, then the cards play out how they play out.  But these policies open up a dangerous Pandora's box that can be manipulated easily.

 

[shootemup604]

I could care less, but I'd like to have some identifier on the door so I know where the urinals are...

 

[PuckChaser]

At some point, do we just stop referring to people by pronouns, and names, and use strictly numbers? Is this new guideline for elementary students as well? My 5 year old can't figure out that staying up late means he's super tired in the morning, but he apparently can make complex decisions on his gender identity and sexual orientation?

At what point do we just stop pretending everyone is a special flower? How does a teacher notify parents when one kid gets wise and "self identifies as female" so he can hang out and change with all the girls at 12 or 14 years old? I'm willing to bet that teacher may have suspicions he's playing the system, but can't/won't say a damn thing because they don't want to get fired.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

At some point, do we just stop referring to people by pronouns, and names, and use strictly numbers? Is this new guideline for elementary students as well? My 5 year old can't figure out that staying up late means he's super tired in the morning, but he apparently can make complex decisions on his gender identity and sexual orientation?

At what point do we just stop pretending everyone is a special flower? How does a teacher notify parents when one kid gets wise and "self identifies as female" so he can hang out and change with all the girls at 12 or 14 years old? I'm willing to bet that teacher may have suspicions he's playing the system, but can't/won't say a damn thing because they don't want to get fired.

Well, I would think the teacher would respect the child/teacher privacy that already exists? This is not a new "special flower rule". See my post (#34) above where the poster does a great job of breaking it down. Most things are about not being assholes and her post makes sense of all this.

 

[Maxadia]

At some point, do we just stop referring to people by pronouns, and names, and use strictly numbers? Is this new guideline for elementary students as well? My 5 year old can't figure out that staying up late means he's super tired in the morning, but he apparently can make complex decisions on his gender identity and sexual orientation?

At what point do we just stop pretending everyone is a special flower? How does a teacher notify parents when one kid gets wise and "self identifies as female" so he can hang out and change with all the girls at 12 or 14 years old? I'm willing to bet that teacher may have suspicions he's playing the system, but can't/won't say a damn thing because they don't want to get fired.

Bravo....you totally understand our frustration.  What happens when the first guy who gets arrested asks to be strip-searched by a female officer?  Or the opposite?  42 year old male predator "self-identifies" as a female so he can be the female liaison for a girl's volleyball team?  Public hockey rink changing rooms become totally co-ed? Male teacher enters the girl's change room at the pool but it's okay because he "self-identifies as a female"?

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Bravo....you totally understand our frustration.  What happens when the first guy who gets arrested asks to be strip-searched by a female officer?  Or the opposite?  42 year old male predator "self-identifies" as a female so he can be the female liaison for a girl's volleyball team?  Public hockey rink changing rooms become totally co-ed? Male teacher enters the girl's change room at the pool but it's okay because he "self-identifies as a female"?

With the hassle in the world these days for being gay or trans, do you really think people will be lining up to self identify in another gender?

Having a friend that has been through all the bullshit involved with it, I can tell you it's not an easy process and acceptance doesn't come at the drop of a hat. This isn't as simple as saying "I'm a girl" one day then "I'm a boy" the next. Sadly, until you've been exposed to it, you can't understand what it is like.

I challenge you to educate yourself about what life is like for Transgendered people and you'll realise it's not as rosy as you seem to think.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Bravo....you totally understand our frustration.  What happens when the first guy who gets arrested asks to be strip-searched by a female officer?

It's already past that........from friends who work there, last month there were two 100% males [anatomically and one even with a beard] at the Vanier jail for women.  Self-identified as women and that's where they ended up.....

 

[Kat Stevens]

With the hassle in the world these days for being gay or trans, do you really think people will be lining up to self identify in another gender?

Having a friend that has been through all the bullshit involved with it, I can tell you it's not an easy process and acceptance doesn't come at the drop of a hat. This isn't as simple as saying "I'm a girl" one day then "I'm a boy" the next. Sadly, until you've been exposed to it, you can't understand what it is like.

I challenge you to educate yourself about what life is like for Transgendered people and you'll realise it's not as rosy as you seem to think.

Yes, it does, because this guide tells you you can't impose your gender bias on another.  Therefore, one can wake up feeling particularly girly today, and go attend women's naked swim time, then the next day decide you're quite burly after all and go scrimmage with the self declared male football team.  Nobody has the right to tell you otherwise, according to this.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Yes, it does, because this guide tells you you can't impose your gender bias on another.  Therefore, one can wake up feeling particularly girly today, and go attend women's naked swim time, then the next day decide you're quite burly after all and go scrimmage with the self declared male football team.  Nobody has the right to tell you otherwise, according to this.

As in being two-spirit, where switching back and forth is normal.

 

[PuckChaser]

With the hassle in the world these days for being gay or trans, do you really think people will be lining up to self identify in another gender?

Absolutely I think people will. Its now popular to be part of the LBGTLMNOP community. Kids, especially teens, want to fit in with society see the massive press coverage someone gets on TMZ for being "different". Are we not at the point now where people are people, and being "different" is something the LBGTQ community wants, because it justifies the parades and telethons, and news articles everytime someone famous says something? Shouldn't they be content that we don't identify anyone with a special tag based on whatever sexual orientation they are, and just treat them as a normal human being?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

a normal human being?

Not good enough.....

 

[Maxadia]

I challenge you to educate yourself about what life is like for Transgendered people and you'll realise it's not as rosy as you seem to think.

I challenge you to spend a week in a school system and then still think that all the little duckies are going to line up in a row just like your imagination leads you to believe.

No one, NO ONE, is saying that anyone transgendered is going to be causing an issue. However, the policies that have been suggested to be put into place WILL leave things wide open for the system to be abused.  THAT'S THE ISSUE.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

From what I have seen with the gay community here in Vancouver is there a radical element that is in a state of perpetual outrage and always searching for a vehicle to propel that outrage. Further along the spectrum you have the “visible gays” who like to show it off, but mostly just to have fun and generally these one have a very volatile lifestyle with a lot of parties, relationship upheaval and questionable moral stance. Then there are the “silent gays”. These ones are quite content with the way society has gone and basically got what they wanted which is gay marriage/civil union, equal rights on legal matters and minimal threat to their safety. I know personally 2 couples in the latter group and have had many interactions with the other 2 groups. I have had one of the couples express embarrassment and disgust with the lack of morals displayed at “gay resorts” where loyalty to your partner is not important and other behaviours. As one of them put it, I am gay, not a scumbag. They are comfortable with who they are, they won’t hide it, nor will they flaunt it.
As for transgenders, at the previous church my wife was attending, they went do this road and opened all the washrooms, now instead of having 1-2 people uncomfortable, you now have a 100+, I also expect it to slowly drain their membership as people don’t feel they can complain about it without being labeled. I know the young transgender kid they were trying to accommodate, and she has parents who are female gays, one of them with a large dose of “man-hate”. The kid is a bit more male than female, but I suspect is afraid to be male because “Mom” hates males, even though the Mom does love the child, I suspect the message seeps through without that being the intent, kids are very good at picking up vibes. I feel for this child, because the Mom is pushing the church to adapt to her child, rather than building up the child to be able to navigate through the hurdles of adult life. Public school and life is going to be hell for this kid and others like them who don’t learn how to survive.    My wife pulled the pin on that place and goes elsewhere, funny enough a Christian church with a gay female minister .

 

[RocketRichard]

It will all sort out. We in education, the kids and the parents will adapt.  The sky is not falling...

 

[ballz]

I have never understood why this bathroom thing is so hard to solve. Is it so hard for society to just start build public bathrooms as private stalls with its own sink and mirror in it, and this "problem" ceases to exist?

I've always better enjoyed my trips to the loo when I couldn't see someone else's shoes underneath the stall next to me anyway, even more so when a few of the other 4 senses aren't triggered.