Afghanistan: Why we should be there (or not), how to conduct the mission (or not) & when to leave

[GAP]

It actually is her responsibility, but given her former affiliations and such, everybody was of the mind that she was a virtual princess and not at all supportive. It's nice to see, even if a little late.

 

[a_majoor]

It actually is her responsibility, but given her former affiliations and such, everybody was of the mind that she was a virtual princess and not at all supportive. It's nice to see, even if a little late.

HRH Elizabeth II is the Head  of State (as Queen of Canada), the GG is HRH's representative in Canada and our Commander in Chief, her public support is always apprieciated.

Gen Mackenzie weighed in with an interesting comment about the polls and selective use of questions:

http://talkcanada.blogspot.com/2006_09_01_talkcanada_archive.html#115863593505294469

Polling on Afghanistan
Ret'd General Lewis Mackenzie was interviewed on Canada AM this morning and he made a great point when asked about the polls showing weak support for the Afghanistan mission.

You can watch the interview here.

He basically said that he'd like to see what the results of a poll would be if Canadians were asked whether or not they supported the Taliban returning to power in Afghanistan.

What do you think the results would be?

And further - what do you think the headlines in the paper would be? ONLY 5% OF CANADIANS SUPPORT NDP POSITION!

Once you ask the right questions, the issue comes into sharp focus.

 

[McG]

I'd be interested to know the same.  I'd also like to know the result of a poll question in which Canadians were asked if  humanitarian efforts should be abandon in Afghanistan.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Afstan: The truth will out.

Letter today in the Edmonton Journal:
http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/letters/story.html?id=01a819d8-eb52-41fd-ba54-51b409d2993b

'U.S. not in control

The Edmonton Journal
'Published: Tuesday, September 19, 2006

Re: "Fighting won't provide solution to morass in Afghanistan," Opinion, Sept. 17.

The column states that "the U.S. is still running the Afghan campaign." That is not accurate. Canadian troops are serving under NATO's International Security Assistance Force. The U.S. is not running ISAF.

ISAF's mission is mandated by the UN Security Council. On Sept. 12 the council voted unanimously to extend ISAF's mandate, and specifically called "upon member states to contribute personnel, equipment and other resources to ISAF."

Mark Collins, Ottawa'

Mark
Ottawa

 

[McG]

It will be interesting to see how these to stories develop & contribute to the debate:

Harper to defend Afghanistan mission in first United Nations speech
Beth Gorham, Canadian Press
Published: Tuesday, September 19, 2006

WASHINGTON (CP) - Prime Minister Stephen Harper will be promoting Canada as a key global player at his first United Nations speech Thursday, while trying to mollify critics at home who say the Afghanistan mission is exacting too high a price.

Observers also expect Harper to appeal for more help from the international community, especially top European allies, as he highlights Canada's contributions in the war-torn country and defends the switch from peacekeeping to active combat.

It's a delicate line for the Conservative leader, who has been accused of aligning his foreign policy, even some of his phrasing, too closely with President George W. Bush.

And the prime minister is under other pressures at home, especially after announcing a new contingent for the fight and the deaths Monday of four Canadian soldiers killed by a suicide bomber while they were handing out candy to kids.

New Democrats are calling on him to bring the troops home and the Bloc Quebecois is demanding an emergency parliamentary debate.

Harper can't afford, though, to appear to be wavering at the UN, said David Bercuson at the Canadian Defence and Foreign Affairs Institute in Calgary.

Harper may, however, talk about redeploying elsewhere in Afghanistan after the current mission ends in January 2009.

"He also needs to find a better way of selling it to Canadians than simply repeating the maxims of Washington," said Bercuson. "They're getting that message from the highest levels of the armed forces - that the case has to be presented much better and more widely."

And while it's true that Canada is losing soldiers partly because the United States diverted much of its attention from Afghanistan to Iraq before the Taliban was truly crushed, there are other factors, he said.

"Are we picking up their chestnuts for them? It's a yes and a no. They took a lot of their resources out of Afghanistan or just never sent them."

"But there's as much of an argument to be made that NATO should have gone in earlier," said Bercuson.

"The Americans and the Brits paid the price in the first years. We came along relatively late in the game and now we're taking the heat."

As Harper addresses the UN General Assembly, Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay will be meeting with NATO colleagues at a Manhattan hotel to drum up more support for the mission.

...

Surveys suggest Canadians are split on the mission. A recent Strategic Counsel poll conducted just before the lastest casualties found 42 per cent support it, compared with 49 per cent opposed.

Support was up since August, including in Quebec. The highest level of suport for the conflict has been about 55 per cent.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=6eb9695b-cc74-416a-9b7f-401ed106d75b&k=73165

and

Karzai hopes to convince Canadian politicians of need for Afghan mission
Alexander Panetta, Canadian Press
Published: Tuesday, September 19, 2006

OTTAWA (CP) - Afghanistan's president hopes to convince Canadian skeptics about the need for this country's continued involvement in Afghanistan during a speech to Parliament on Friday.

Hamid Karzai will not make specific references to the NDP, which has called for the withdrawal of Canadian troops from Afghanistan, nor will he target other MPs who personally oppose the mission.

He wants to avoid being dragged into domestic politics - but he does want Canadian politicians to hear his message, said Afghanistan's top envoy to Ottawa.

"He is going to explain the Afghan perspective and convey the wishes and hopes of the Afghan people," said Omar Samad, Afghanistan's ambassador to Ottawa. "And hopefully, maybe, somebody in the audience will realize that reality lies somewhere other than where they thought."

The speech to Parliament will be a highlight of Karzai's two-day trip beginning Friday.

He will also meet with the families of Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan, as well as Prime Minister Stephen Harper and interim Liberal Leader Bill Graham.

Karzai has no current plans to meet privately with NDP Leader Jack Layton, whose party massively endorsed a troop pullout during their recent convention.

Karzai is aware of the growing controversy over the mission, and he has expressed some surprise about the nature of the debate in Canada.

"He thinks there is probably excessive focus on the military aspect when Canada's role is more than just military," Samad said.  Karzai will emphasize the humanitarian role Canada plays in his country and how it can continue to help in several areas, including human rights, governance and developmental work.

Karzai's visit comes on the heels of a suicide attack that killed four Canadian soldiers and brought Canada's death toll in Afghanistan to 37.

Armed with a bomb so powerful it killed a cow 70 metres away, an attacker plowed into a group of soldiers while they dispensed candy to local children.

The attack Monday signalled a Taliban shift back to guerilla tactics after scores were slaughtered in head-to-head warfare against Canadian-led NATO troops.

The NDP and several international observers have suggested that pro-Taliban insurgents should be consulted in peace negotiations.

NATO officials admitted that such high-stakes talks were already under way with some insurgent groups in the Panjwaii region last month.

However, a subsequent international assault on insurgents in the area appeared to have scuttled any negotiations.

Samad said ex-Taliban sympathizers have been welcomed with open arms into the new, democratic Afghanistan.

But he said that invitation does not include what he described as Taliban war criminals and foreign fighters who have entered the country.

"You won't see any negotiations taking place with Mullah Omar," he said.

"The door has been open for (Taliban supporters) all along, and thousands of them have given up on militancy and extremism.  "I'm not talking about non-Afghans who are supportive of terrorism, violence and extremism."

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=d72bd09b-c980-4892-9433-8467524abfdc&k=4394

 

[big bad john]

People continue to ask, some come here to this site for the answer.  We have had a few threads on this, now continuing on the vein.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0919/p07s02-wosc.htm

from the September 19, 2006 edition - http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0919/p07s02-wosc.html
In Kabul schools, fear of Taliban return
Students learning English in co-ed schools that proliferated since 2001 view the US skeptically.
By Scott Peterson | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

KABUL, AFGHANISTAN
Glory and service to country seem to drive the students taking private English lessons in one of the many foreign language schools that have opened here since the Taliban fell. They aspire to be doctors, engineers, and journalists - to elevate themselves above the decrepitude and insecurity they see all around them.

"I want to be an astronaut!" announces 14-year-old Arsalan. So does his little brother. Their friend, Seeyar, is determined to be president.

"He's on the land," says Arsalan. "We'll go to the stars!"

But those youthful dreams - expressed boisterously by these boys and more shyly inside a classroom of a dozen male and female students in their late teens - give way to details of fear about a Taliban resurgence and heartfelt concern about the US intent regarding the Muslim world.

Tamana's family returned to Kabul from Pakistan after US-led forces toppled the Taliban in 2001. "When I came, everything was destroyed, and people were destroyed," recalls Tamana, who wants to become a television journalist. "People couldn't say their opinion. They were fighting their brothers."

A pervasive fear is that the string of Taliban suicide attacks, and fighting between NATO and US forces in south and east Afghanistan, is a prelude to the Islamist militia again regaining control.

This recently opened school - along with many other language and computer schools in the capital - would be closed; women would be forced again to wear burqas.

"My family has decided they should remain in Afghanistan for the time being, because we can get an education," says Espozhmai, her hands covered in traditional henna, who was secretly home-schooled by her mother during the Taliban era. "We will decide what to do, if the Taliban takes Kabul."

Afsoon's family is also staying. "We don't want to live like refugees again," she says of the 11 years her family lived in Isfahan, Iran.

"We decided to stay, because my mother said: 'Afghanistan needs people like us to rebuild. If we don't reconstruct it, who will?' " Afsoon recalls of the dinner table conversation.

"I want to fight, to save my country," vows Fareshda, whose gentle face and slipping headscarf belie her desire to take on the Taliban and their uncompromising rules. "My family is happy, because they are in their own country."

"Our problem is our people. They are uneducated. They all the time are used as a tool by someone else," says teacher Shayan. "The first time the Taliban took control of Afghanistan I stayed. But if they come again, I will leave Afghanistan. I can't stand a second time."

So what do these students say are Afghanistan's three greatest needs today?

"Security," says Fareshda.

"Solidarity," says Tamana, the aspiring journalist.

"Peace. We need peace," says Assiya, who wants to be a doctor.

"If the situation stays like this, I'm sure the Taliban will come," says Ahmad, a recently graduated pharmacist who claims the US is supporting the Taliban with cash, because otherwise they "could not fight against the 25 countries of NATO.

"If they come, they will put rules on people," he says, adding that the US should build a wall along the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan, where the Taliban draw much support. "If they come by force, what can people do?"

Indeed, the Taliban may already be trying to cause harm in Kabul, according to a letter sent recently by the Ministry of Interior to top Afghan education ministers, warning that the Taliban has imported writing pens with a special gas mechanism that will "render people unconscious and clean [erase] their memories."

The Taliban, the letter said, planned to specifically distribute the pens to private foreign language and computer schools where men and women learn side by side.

But the Taliban - and problems of electricity shortages, insecurity, and weak government - are not the only things weighing on these young minds. The class quickly turns into a session in which an American visitor is peppered with questions.

"Why do the Americans attack Islamic countries?" asks teacher Farid. A chorus erupts from the class as students demand an answer.

Shayan tries to explain the reason for Afghanistan: "They attacked to save us from the Taliban and Al Qaeda," he says.

"The US government, especially Bush, is against Islam. He attacks Muslim countries," says Tamana, the journalist-to-be. She dismisses the examples of US-led airstrikes against Bosnian Serbs in 1995, to save Muslims in Sarajevo, and bombing of Serbia in 1999 to relieve pressure on Kosovar Muslims, as "minority" cases.

"Why did the Americans attack Iraq?" asks Farid.

"Why do the Taliban do suicide bombs?" asks Wais, who works in a trendy clothes shop. "Do you think this time the Taliban will be democratic?" he asks sarcastically, prompting muted laughter. "If they come back, we'll have to escape again to Pakistan."

"Why didn't the Americans eliminate the Taliban?" asks Farid, shaking his head.

"We appreciate the role of the US in Afghanistan," says Shabana, a shy girl who hopes to become a doctor. "We want the US Army to be here for a long time. We need your help."

"Apparently they are here to help us reconstruct, to help us stand on our own feet. But we'll be happy if they fight the Taliban now and stop them," says Afsoon. "Unless civilians are harmed by their attacks. They should be very careful."

 

[NavyShooter]

Well,

My wife asked me why we're in Afghanistan the other day.

My explanation was a little complex I guess.

I look at it this way.  Canada is the one nation that has not yet been hit from Al Queda''s "big 6" hitlist. 

If the talliban was still in control of Afghanistan, and providing a locale of support for AQ, what is the likelyhood that we would have had a terrorism incident in Canada by now?  Seeing as the other 5 have been hit, I'd say probably pretty good (or bad?)

If we examine the other terrorism attacks, from the London Bus attacks, WTC, Spain's Trains, etc, how many people are likely to die in one of these attacks on average?  Several hundred?

If our presence in Afghanistan aids significantly in preventing such an attack that would potentiall kill hundreds of innocents on our soil, then it is worthwhile.

I guess it's not really along the theme of the article posted above, but it's my perspective on why we're doing things.

NavyShooter

 

[Nieghorn]

I was just thinking this morning why it is that whenever one of our brave soldiers gets killed in Afghanistan, does the media and the people they interview ask why we're there.  I thought it was quite clear from when our troops moved into Kandahar that it was to root out the Taliban.  Several times it's been made quite clear to me from certain experts, the troops on the ground, and by my own reading that if they are not destroyed this failed state, with the potential to succeed, will go back to the oppressive regime it once was.  No human being deserves to live under conditions such that the Taliban maintained before 2001. 

I can't speak for our troops, but this looks like a noble cause worth fighting for.  Unfortunately for those on the extreme left, the Taliban  and al-Q don't seem to be the type of people who'll come to the table to discuss a peaceful end, understanding only 'diplomacy' by the gun and bomb.  I'm currently reading a book about modern military approaches to battling insurgencies, and two main elements seem to be the way of not only winning the battles, but also getting the local people on your side.  Unfortunately for safety's sake, this doesn't involve sitting around in bases and means patrolling far and wide, hitting insurgents where they live.  It also importantly means interacting with locals, helping them rebuild and establish infrastructure that will make their lives better.  It's really interesting to read how typical NGO work is being done by the military, but despite what the NDP thinks, this can only be done with a show of force.  This form of the old 'hearts and minds' strategy seems to be working from what I've read and not only are many people happy with our presence, those 'in the know' are willingly coming forward to help make the job of finding the 'bad guys' a lot easier.

For the sake of all concerned, I hope an end comes sooner than later, but I think our action in Afghanistan has a chance to really make a difference where history has seen similar cases in the past spiral into death and oppression of the innocent when the world ignored them.

 

[Lockness]

Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing"  ...
...  Copyright Act - http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/20/opinion/20hafvenstein.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Op-Ed Contributor
Afghanistan’s Drug Habit
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By JOEL HAFVENSTEIN
Published: September 20, 2006
London

Jeffrey Smith
AS if there hadn’t been enough bad news from Afghanistan of late, now the country’s drug dependency is back in the headlines. On Sept. 2, the head of the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime reported that the shattered country is now producing 92 percent of the world’s supply of illegal opium, up from 87 percent in 2004. This deplorable new record will not be reversed by more belligerent counternarcotics measures. Instead, America, NATO and the Afghan government must reform a vital but neglected institution: the local police.

In 2004, for the first time in history, farmers in every province of Afghanistan chose to cultivate opium poppies. The American and Afghan governments promised a major poppy eradication campaign. Aid agencies scrambled to create an economic alternative for the thousands of Afghans who depended on poppy farming to survive.

Thus in November 2004, I traveled to Lashkargah, the capital of Helmand Province, the opium heartland of Afghanistan, as the deputy leader of an “alternative livelihoods” project financed by the United States Agency for International Development. Our core team was made up of six Western aid workers, and we hired some 80 Afghan staff members.

In the long-term plan, alternative livelihoods meant helping Afghan farmers export high-value crops like saffron and cumin. It meant restoring the orchards and vineyards that had once made Afghanistan a power in the raisin and almond markets. It meant providing credit to farmers who had relied on traffickers for affordable loans.

In the short run, however, with the first eradication tractors already plowing up poppy fields, we had no time for those approaches. Instead, we created public-works jobs. Like a New Deal agency, we handed out shovels to thousands of local Afghans and paid them $4 per day to repair canals and roads. We found plenty of work on Helmand’s grand but dilapidated irrigation system, a legacy of early cold-war American aid. By May 2005, we had paid out millions of dollars and had some 14,000 men on the payroll simultaneously. The program buoyed the provincial economy, and would have made a fine launching pad for long-term alternatives to poppy.

Security was our Achilles’ heel. There was a new American military base by the graveyard on the edge of town, but the few score Iowa National Guard members there lacked the manpower and the local knowledge to protect us. We could not afford the professional security companies in Kabul, most run by brash veterans of Western militaries. Then, just before Christmas, some of our engineers were carjacked. We resorted to the only remaining source of protection: the provincial police.

We soon found that at their best, the Helmand police forces were half-organized militias with charismatic leadership and years of combat experience. At their worst, the policemen were bandits, pederasts and hashish addicts. Our local guard captain was one of the better ones, but he was still far from reliable.

Once I asked him what he earned as a district police commander. “The governor paid us no salary,” he curtly replied. “The people gave us money. To thank us for solving their problems.” I was never sure if we were paying him enough to solve our problems.

When the attacks came, our security was useless. On May 18, five of our Afghan staff members were murdered in the field. The next morning, one of the funeral convoys was ambushed, leaving six more of our workers and their relatives dead. The police responded with indiscriminate arrests and bluster, but they lacked the investigative skills to catch the killers.

We heard rumors that the attackers were Taliban troops — and indeed, the attacks were harbingers of the Taliban resurgence that Helmand has seen in the last year. We also heard that the Taliban had been paid by local drug barons to attack our project. All we knew was that we were targets, and that we could not protect ourselves. Within days, we had stopped all our projects and most of the staff went home.

more on link

 

[MarkOttawa]

Harper to defend Afghanistan mission in first United Nations speech

A typically misleading Canadian headline, with a subtle implication that the mission has to be defended to the UN itself when if fact the mission is UNSC-mandated.  A truer headling would have been:

"Harper to seek domestic support for Afghanistan mission with UN speech".

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Lockness]

Support our troops - Bring em home! So the Taleban can once again take over Afghanistan.  See below for the Taleban's track record and make up your own mind on whether its right we should stay and help the international community or go.

Amnesty International - Afghanistan - Feb 28, 2001
Massacres in Yakaolang
http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/afghanistan/document.do?id=D33D75136CB017EC80256A1C00664835
For several days Taleban forces massacred over 300 unarmed men and a number of civilian women and children. The victims were either summarily executed or deliberately killed.

Eyewitnesses told Amnesty International: "Some people in Kata Khana ran to the mosque for shelter thinking the Taleban would respect the sanctity of the mosque, but they were wrong!" They said they saw Taleban guards deliberately firing two rockets at the mosque where some 73 women, children and elderly men had taken shelter. The building collapsed on them but the Taleban guards would not allow anyone to go to their rescue for three days, by which time all those in the mosque had died except for two small children.

More on link

Amnesty International - Afghanistan - Feb 28, 1999
Detention and killing of political personalities
http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/afghanistan/document.do?id=1794673D05436A638025690000693441
Up to 200 Afghan political personalities have been arrested in the past year apparently on account of their peaceful political activities and opposition to the continued armed conflict in the country. Those arrested include Afghan intellectuals, community leaders, former army officers or civil servants. The vast majority of the detainees are reportedly non-combatants arrested solely for their activities in support of peace and a broad based government in Afghanistan. Most of these detainees have reportedly been severely tortured. Over a dozen of them have been killed after their arrest. Some of the detainees have been released but as of February 1999, around 100 still remain in detention.

More on link

Amnesty International - Afghanistan Mar 31, 1998
Flagrant abuse of the right to life and dignity
http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/afghanistan/document.do?id=B75FE8B21E581DC88025690000693223
In recent months, at least five men convicted of sodomy by Taleban Shari'a courts have been placed next to standing walls by Taleban officials and then buried under the rubble as the walls were toppled upon them. At least four alleged murderers have been executed in public by the family members of the murdered persons. At least five men have had their hands amputated on allegation of theft, and at least one man and one woman have been flogged by Taleban officials on allegation of adultery.

More on link

Amnesty International - Afghanistan Aug 31, 1997
Continuing atrocities against civilians
http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/afghanistan/document.do?id=935B899FE372E31B802569000068A275
Amnesty International has recently received testimonies from the survivors of a massacre in the Afghan village of Qezelabad, near the northern city of Mazar-e Sharif. These testimonies reveal that about 70 civilians, including women and children were deliberately and arbitrarily killed on 14 September by armed Taleban guards as they were retreating from some of the positions they had captured in the area. All of the victims reportedly belonged to the Hazara minority which in recent years has frequently been targeted by the Taleban.

More on link


Amnesty International - Afghanistan May 31, 1997
Women in Afghanistan: The violations continue
http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/afghanistan/document.do?id=E0380F6A0A485DDA8025690000692F85
...
Taleban restrictions imposed on women deny them some of their most basic and fundamental human rights, including the right to freedom of association, freedom of expression and employment. Similar restrictions imposed by any other group would equally amount to a violation of these rights;
Women in Taleban controlled areas of Afghanistan continue to be beaten by Taleban guards for defying orders about dress or for working outside their home;
Women detained or otherwise physically resticted under Taleban codes solely by reason of their gender would be considered by AI to be prisoners of conscience.

More on Link

 

[George Wallace]

In case the "Loyal Opposition" needs justification for Troops in Afghanistan, this breaking news ought to open up their eyes (Especially Jack Layton):  (Posted according to the Fair Dealings Act.)

Afghan workers killed in ambush

Nineteen construction workers have been killed in southern Afghanistan when their bus was hit by a bomb and then fired on by insurgents, officials say.
Three other workers were hurt in the attack in southern Kandahar province, the interior ministry said.

Meanwhile police say they have killed 20 suspected Taleban in central Uruzgan province. One policeman also died.

A spokesperson for the Taleban said that they had killed 14 policemen in the incident and denied losing any men.

More on the linked site.

 

[probum non poenitet]

Well, you see what you want to see, and hear what you want to hear ...

according to the NDP, President Karzai gave a "stern condemnation of the military operation" yesterday.

It's politics. Truth is secondary, you just need to twist the facts to score points, like a bad day in divorce court.

http://www.ndp.ca/page/4357

QUOTE from the NDP's website:

Within minutes of finishing his speech to the United Nations defending the unbalanced military mission in Afghanistan, Prime Minister Harper was contradicted by none other than President Karzai of Afghanistan.

Harper says:

" ... approximately 20,000 troops from 37 countries — roughly 2,500 Canadians included — are contributing to military efforts to help stabilise Afghanistan and eliminate the remnants of the Taliban regime once and for all."

—Prime Minister Stephen Harper, Speech to the United Nations General Assembly, 21 September 2006.

How Mr. Harper's take on things differs from that of Afghan President Hamid Karzai.

Karzai says:

"Bombings in Afghanistan are no solution to the Taliban. You do not destroy terrorism by bombing villages. You do not destroy terrorism by launching military operations in areas where only the symptoms have emerged."

—Afghan President Hamid Karzai, speaking at the U.S. Council on Foreign Relations, CBC Newsworld, 21 September 2006

Harper told the UN, that "the democratically elected government of Afghanistan — led by President Karzai — requested the assistance of the United Nations and its member states in the struggle against terror, intimidation, violence and oppression." Given Karzai's stern condemnation of the military operation today, it's clear that the highest levels of the Afghan government are less supportive of this unbalanced military mission than the Conservatives are letting on.

 

[cplcaldwell]

Okay....

Looks like it's time for another letter to ndp.ca.

Talk about over the top!!!

Juvat, Infidel-6, you're assessment was quite right, and it took what? Twenty minutes?

"In war the first casualty is Truth"

 

[Yrys]

and it took what? Twenty minutes?

Probably less, the page of the npd web site is yesterday...

 

[a_majoor]

The President of Afghanistan has the most eloquent answer to Jack Layton; he has ignored Taliban Jack's appeals for a meeting:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&pubid=968163964505&cid=1158875419217&col=968705899037&call_page=TS_News&call_pageid=968332188492&call_pagepath=News/News

Karzai snubs Layton request for meeting
Sep. 21, 2006. 06:50 PM
ALEXANDER PANETTA
CANADIAN PRESS

OTTAWA — Afghan President Hamid Karzai arrived in Canada on Thursday to help drum up support for the mission in his troubled country, but a meeting with the country's most prominent anti-war politician did not appear to be on his agenda.

NDP Leader Jack Layton has made several requests for a meeting with the Afghan leader — and has had no reply.

Layton is the only major federal party leader to have called for a withdrawal of Canadian troops from Afghanistan.

He says he'd like to discuss alternatives to the current conflict with Karzai.

"I certainly would like to have the opportunity to speak with him," Layton said outside the House of Commons.

"We've certainly requested (a meeting), and would appreciate the opportunity."

Layton's staff has made repeated requests through the Department of Foreign Affairs and by appealing directly to the Afghan embassy in Ottawa.

When contacted Thursday afternoon, the embassy confirmed that no meeting with Layton had yet been scheduled.

Karzai was to meet Prime Minister Stephen Harper on Thursday evening. He is also to meet Liberal Leader Bill Graham, civil-society groups, soldiers' families, and even the mayor of Montreal over the next three days.

Karzai will address Parliament on Friday, when he is expected to make the case that Canada's continued efforts are a necessary boost to his war-ravaged nation.

But he also wants to drive home the message that Canada's role in Afghanistan carries a large humanitarian component — not just a military one.

Layton said the current reality suggests otherwise. He pointed to statistics indicating that Canadian military spending in Afghanistan is outstripping humanitarian spending by nine to one.

"This mission is completely out of whack," Layton said.

"By investing so heavily in the war effort in the south, it's depriving Afghanistan from the investments in humanitarian aid and in reconstruction that are required elsewhere in the country."

 

[cplcaldwell]

Yrys: Yes I noted the date after I posted. My bad

It seems then these wascally wabbits engaged in a pre-emptive strike.

I love the logic. "Let's cherry pick the quotes we want, post it, then the next day, when the party of the first part totally demolishes our position, we'll just leave the stale dated Reality Check up on our site, once again , steadfastly denying reality."

Nice to see Taliban Jack has not evolved too much since his days on Tronna city council.....

 

[GAP]

Kinda gives you visions of a naughty puppy scratching at the Afghan mission door, whining  about wanting in....  ;D

 

[North Star]

While not a big fan of Jason Kenney, he delivered a good throat punch to Taliban Jack in the House today:

From: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060922.w2karzai09221/BNStory/National/home

During Question Period, meanwhile, NDP Leader Jack Layton questioned the government's commitment to balance its efforts, saying Ottawa spends far more on defence measures than on aid.

Conservative MP Jason Kenney, Mr. Harper's parliamentary secretary, however, responded by accusing the NDP of “hypocrisy” in its position on the mission.

“Mr. Speaker, let me say the NDP says they're in favour of multilateralism, but they want to pull out of Afghanistan unilaterally,” he said.

“They say they're in favour of the United Nations, but they're against our participation in the world's most important UN Mission. They say they're in favour of peace and development, but they don't want protection so that we can do civil reconstruction and development.”

 

[MPIKE]

On the CBC...

Karzai to sit down with Peter Mansbridge tonight on the National.

and ..

"Taliban Jack" to respond to today's ceremonies at 1400hrs CBC Newsworld.  You actually think he would pass up a chance to be in the limelight?? :

So hold writing letters to NDP until he bleets then. No doubt more things to pin him on there.