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Afghanistan - Latest Tours

The problem is that you have to start somewhere.  You can't realistically 'save' the whole country all at once.  You will have to be happy to save a small part of it, and slowly expand outward.  To do so you will need 'security'.  Our problem is how much manpower will this 'security' take up? 
 
I don't have an easy answer.  I remain convinced that the fight will be won in the countryside.  That, to me, means getting ANP into the larger villages in strength, with substantial Coalition support.  It also means an extensive (largely SF) effort to interdict Taliban communications with Pakistan, including extensive use of DAs if required - all controlled by a centralized, unified C2 structure.

Ultimately, I think my centre of gravity would focus on improving the professionalism, size and capability of both the ANA and ANP, in combination with the QRF concept I mentioned above and focused, by exception kinetic operations.  I am of the opinion that individual terrorist attacks are virtually impossible to defend against.  Hell, we can't control London and New York, let alone S. Afghanistan.  However, concentrating on rural lines of communication, intelligence gathering and village control might have the effect of cutting the TB off from its support base and improving our ability to conduct intelligence-driven operations.

This puts the geographic centre of gravity almost exclusively along the S. frontier, to the point where I would likely reduce operations in the north and west. Timelines, IMHO, depend almost entirely on how quickly we get the ANA and ANP sorted out and operationally effective - a daunting task given the scope of the problem.

My 2 cents, as always.
 
Gentlemen,

WRT the last two posts, that is the direction that I am moving towards. While it is true that we have to start somewhere, because of domestic political considerations we have to commence with a strategy that does not extend past two-three years at first glance. The pillorying that the US has taken over the past 10-15 years over "exit strategies" has now infected us as well, even if that specific term is not used in the papers. It is not acceptable to openly state that it will take decades to finish the job, even though Cyprus went over twenty years before we threw in the towel, Yugoslavia went twenty years, and Lebanon has been going on for almost thirty.

If I remember my WW II history correctly, the Allies' "exit strategy" was to completely destroy the Axis nations ability to wage aggressive war, and to remain in situ until such time that the defeated nations were once again able to functionindependently. As it happened, once West Germany and Japan were back on their feet again they invited Allied powers to stay on to protect them from potential Soviet aggression (and I am sure that there was some back-door arm-twisting involved as well to wangle the "invitations"). We need to get back to that kind of long view in order to properly do the job.

Training the ANA/ANP is not a two-four year program, it is going to take at least ten years. As well, what we in the West often forget to consider is that they cannot use the same methods that we do. When the entire provincial record keeping system for every ministry is one guy sitting on a stool copying things by hand into ledger books, it is pretty pointless to suggest that they do economic forecasts for 4 years out and predict the impact of major infrastucture projects. I would loe to see this scribe's expression when you ask him to give you a memory stick so that you can download a PPT presentations and some spreadsheets that will help him.

I had a good (if somewhat dismayed) laugh over one of the projects that the PRT R0 did, namely the Gopvernor's LAN project. This involved a satellite connection to Kabul, installation of servers, UPS's, cabling, terminals etc in order to enable the Governor of Kandahar Province to connect his ministers to  his office, and from there to Kabul. When our boys did the research, there was exactly zero places in Afghanistan that could provide the equipment, and exactly 1 company out of Kabul who could actually bid on the project (even though all materials actually came out of the UAE). As the cost was over 50K, we were told to get three competitive bids to comply with PWGSC regulations...It is this kind of mindset that makes things harder to accomplish.

What needs to be communicated (subtly) to Canadian civilians is that Kandahar (and by extension Afghanistan) is not like a Canadian province. When the literacy rate of the average ANP recruit class is in the low teens it is hard to provide lessons much beyond the EDI method, and you certainly can't get into any skills lessons that are too complex. God knows that you can't get complex abstract techniques over at all in this manner.

Thus, not only can we not teach them how to use Western communication and decision making aids in order to streamline their operations and make them more effective and efficient, we can't even teach them how to fill out handwritten reports, returns, and requests. It definitely does make things harder when we are using digital data and communications techniques, while the people who we are supposedly training are using pen and paper if they are able to read and write at all.

Thus, if we are going to have success in the big picture, we will have to educate our citizens as to the need for patience and staying the course. We then have to actually form and train the bureaucracy that Western diplomats, aid workers, contractors etc expect to be able to plug into. Without that, our diplomats and aid workers are playing hockey on a football field. Once we have that we can then really start going to town on development, educating the locals on democratic governance (in the Western style, which is what we are imposing), and security reform. Concurrently with this, we can make great strides with the ANA and ANP AS LONG AS WE FOCUS OUR EFFORTS VERY CLOSELY, either in terms of geographical area or level of training we wish to achieve. In any event, it will be at least 3-5 years just to prepare the ground to receive the seeds...
 
This is the most interesting thread I have read for a long time...thanks all.
 
There's operations in the north and west?

We should remember that the style of governance must be an Afghan choice, and the progress and results should be judged by Afghan standards.

In my view, the fault line that has caused the conflict over the past 30 years has been the huge divide between urban and rural Afghanistan.  Those tensions have been there for over 100 years, but they came into focus in the 70s.  Kandahar and Gumbad are about 100 km apart in terms of distance and 1,000 years in terms of "progress."

The easy answer is to say "development", but when that development threatens traditional power structures you get problems.  This war is about ideology, not people upset about a lack of development.  The Taliban don't fight us because we haven't built schools.  They fight us because we have built schools.  They don't fight us because we haven't built roads, they fight because we have built roads.

In my own narrow view our aim should be to develop the ANSF to the point where they can stand on their own.  In the meantime, we have to buy time and space for that to happen.  We buy that time and space by fighting, and the fighting can get downright conventional out there.  I never thought I'd be in a CP setting up enablers for a combat team to cross a river under fire to liberate a town from open occupation by the enemy.

With security the other things can happen.
 
2Bravo,

I agree with you that development is not the whole answer, and that any lasting power structure must be in and of Afghan nature. Everything that I saw over there was structured around the clan system within villages moving outward. It appeared to me that every level of governance above the village shura was essentially something that was grafted on to the regular people's daily lives, and they really had no interest in it. Certainly the provincial and national levels had no real daily impact.

However, I believe that development will play a role - complementary in the beginning, yet moving towards greater importance as the security situation improves. Believe it or not, I agree with the 3-D approach, or the more useful term of All-of-Government. Here's why:

1.  Yes, meaningful security reform has to happen first. If everything you build is destroyed as soon as it has been completed, you never advance. Thus, SSR has to be the initial focus.
2.  However, if we really intend to prevent Afghanistan from reverting to a failed state, we have to provide it the tools whereby its citizens can influence government, and feel that they can. Right now, government is something to be endured, and if it becomes too burdensome, removed. Presently Afghanistan has all the structures of Western style democracy in place at the National and Provincial level, but they have no idea as to how to translate those structures into effects on the ground. This is a function of what I have mentioned earlier, namely that we are imposing Western expectations and forms on a culture that has neither the technical training nor tools to implement them, nor any cultural imperative to do so.
3.    Finally, the only way (in my opinion) to inoculate a citizenry against ideology is to provide them with something that they value more than that ideology. The main replacement that we in the West offer is standard of living, as we are a materialistic society. This is again a function of the fact that we are CAPABLE of being a materialistic society. It is very easy to gain adherents to a creed that states that this life is merely a test to see how well you will be rewarded in the next life when your present existence revolves around back-breaking labour for mere daily survival. Therefore, in order to replace the allure of that ideology (the worse you have it in this life, the better you will be off in Paradise in the next) you will have to make it worth their while to give up what they are being promised in Heaven. The only way to accomplish that in a manner we in the West are familiar with is through development.

Thus, I agree with you that we have to phase our main efforts:

Phase 1 - Security
Phase 2 - Education into what we are trying to do for the country, and how they can continue the efforts without us being present in large numbers
Phase 3 - Elevation of the standard of living through development so that a less fundamentalist form of Islam can prevail.

All three phases overlap, and all three efforts overlap to a certain degree with the stated ones above being primus inter pares.

Again, this is only my opinion. I am certainly not stating that this is the best, nor the only way.

Thanks to everyone who has responded. Your interest has compelled me to actually start putting all this in a rational, logical sequence rather than the way that I generally jump from point to point and back.
 
There's operations in the north and west?

We're part of ISAF now, no?  It seems to me that several ISAF countries are concentrating on the "safe" (using that term loosely) parts of the country around MeS and Herat - north and west.

ApolloVet:  check your messages, if you haven't already.
 
I was having a little fun at the expense of my northern comrades.  My bad.  I was trying to make the point that the operations are taking place in the south. 

2B
 
Heh...and my sarcasm detector's obviously broken...  ;D  We're both making the same point, of course...
 
Was just wondering if this is a dead thread since no one has posted in it in a while.
A question to ApolloVet though. In your initial post you stated that you thought we were focusing to much on combat ops and not enough on the restructuring campaign. Now after some of the posts that were made by 2Bravo and the others I was wondering if you were reconsidering that statement. To my knowledge the PRT is still conducting business as usual, albeit there is a greater need for security for any tasks they go on. They are still focusing on mentoring programs for the ANP and on helping the local gov't modernize itself and work towards the goal of gaining the trust of the people.Projects such as rebuilding the bridges and dams, or road improvement plans are going to be affected by security issues, but the fundamental creation of a working and respected infrastructure within the gov't can still be achieved. Yes the media has given a lot of attention to the Combat operations Canada has become involved in but I am sure the people that are there can attest to the fact that there is a lot of work being conducted behind the scenes to establish credit for the GoA that the media is not interested in because it doesn't sell the way violence and controversy does.
 
Eeyore,

Just a quick one, as my family is calling me away - I will go into more detail later.

I can't speak to the effect of the PRT R1, as I was not there for it. I can, however, speak to the PRT R0 and the other agencies that were operating there at the time (USAID, DynaCorps etc).

MTF when I get the chance to type. Sorry about the delay...
 
Eeyore,

Here is the more detailed reply that I promised...

Yes, the PRT is continuing on with reconstruction ops, and yes, they are ensuring that the "Afghan face" is maintained (thus gaining face for the Gov't of Afghanistan). As far as media coverage goes, I am sure that the local media is getting the word out, and we are just not hearing it in Canada.

The problem with the reconstruction effort that I saw (and have heard nothing to make me believe that the situation has changed) is that it is focused to our needs, not the Afghan's needs. All the smaller projects were very much "intelligence driven" wherein we stated that we would provide something in exchange for information in a specific area. It was not part of a coherent overall strategy.

WRT the large projects, they were very much too large. For example, if USAID (to name only one agency) wanted to have an effect in an area, they might build a fruit cannery. However, before they could build the cannery, they would have to build a road to get to the area, and they would also have to change the crops over to fruit from whatever was originally being grown. Finally, they would have to train the locals in how to operate it.

Well, since all these projects were "nested", what seemed to always happen was that all elements would be started, but they would not be carried through to completion. This was not the fault of the developing agency; this was merely a function of the facts that there were not enough agents, and their attentions were soon required elsewhere (usually for a small intelligence driven project). Thus, the locals never saw the complete benefit, and in the case of farmers who switched over crops, they often were actually harmed because they could not get any money from their new crops.

A further difficulty with the "large project" strategy was that there were very few contractors who could actually do the work. Many of these larger contractors were either inherently corrupt, or got all of their projects through nepotism. There were cases where contractors were provided with heavy machinery for a specific purpose (road construction), and rather than work on the road, the contractors would cite "security concerns" and then use the machinery somewhere else for personal gain. Obviously, this did not provide the desired effect with the locals.

Finally, I still feel that we are imposing too much of a Western flavour on the whole process. People always go with what they are familiar with. We know how to operate in the Western fashion, and the people with whom we are most comfortable dealing are those who speak English and understand how we conduct ALL our business in the West. These people, however, may not be the ones with whom we need to deal. Since Afghanistan is still a tribally dominated culture, we need to find those personnel who have real influence in their tribes, districts, religious sects, etc and deal with them. They may or may not be those personnel who have been elected or appointed to government positions (usually not in my experience).

If I had my druthers, we would approach Afghanistan in one of two ways (although with the understanding that the West would have to provide the main security umbrella while either of these two process were carried out):

1. We take the next generation and FULLY educate them in the Western political, economic, military, and governance functions; or
2. We create a cadre of personnel who will remain in Afghanistan until the job is done and fully educate them in the Afghan processes.

What I see now is that we have grafted a Western flavour on Afghanistan that is a mile wide and an inch deep. The Afghans as a whole do not understand what we are trying to do, and since they have not quickly seen concrete results do not support our actions. What we have are a number of people who have lived in the West who can take advantage of our presence simply because we can easily speak to them. Conversely, the people we have there now generally do not understand the Afghan way of doing things (and I do not pretend to be an expert myself) who are trying to go about their business in the way that they know how. 

Overall, I think that we are aiming our reconstruction strategy too high. Rather than trying to impose the control of the central government, and then raising the standard of living through the (apparent) actions of the government, I think that we should raise the general standard of living immediately (and credit the government as being a partner in the process rather than trying to say that they are responsible. The Afghans know that the aid is coming from the West, not Kabul) and then try to extend the influence of Kabul. Happy people with full bellies will not shelter the Taliban - people who are being promised "pie in the sky, by and by" will soon lose their belief.

Hope this answers your question
 
i found a martini henry rifle in a mud hut we searched a few months ago....in working condition, why is this idiot writing about an ancient british rifle in this thread you ask?

this country and its problems are not gonna be solved by do gooders in our lifetime, no way no how, not by giving them little radios or wells or holding all the shura's in the world, they have LONG memories, we have very short ones, i dont know where my house keys are, but these dudes had a 130 yr old rifle, that worked

however, 'fighting solves everything', and in my opinion here is why

certain areas we operated in are now almost empty of taliban because we wiped em out, they are having to centralize their efforts to stay alive, leaving the rest of their former areas abandoned to us to rebuild or look after, we built a reputation of being tough fighters and fair ambassadors

not the other way around for once, when the locals in some areas accepted that we could actually beat the taliban we got more outta them then we ever did by drinking tea with them

im a simple guy, its why i like the infantry, i know there a myriad of high end details that go with making a new country, but fighting does solve everything when its all they understand, the details will work themselves out once the bad guys are gone
 
Boondocksaint: Did you ever get a chance to ask the story behind the rifle?I'm rather curious - it being well maintained means it's a treasured artifact. I hope it wasn't confiscated - or if it was - some nitwit doesn't destroy it. Aid projects are most often a travesty - witness Africa. A good one is this wind-up radio  that is being trumpeted - nice idea but - there is such a thing as a crystal radio - way low tech and works. That's what is needed - workable low tech - for example - nice to fund a woman's sewing shop - donate 20 or so sewing machines - but if they are the electric model - where do you get the electricity from - there are the old fashioned third world trundle operated ones - things like that are what's needed - and are what's overlooked.
 
I the rifles were transported back to Canada, not destroyed. Will most likely see them in the near future in the PPCLI museum in Calgary. The story being that they took them off a dead brit soldier back in the 1867.
 
Some Martini Henry rifles are / were working copies made by gunmiths in Afgh....

(the story of the rifle being taken from the grasp of a dead brit soldier would certainly be a tale that anyone would want to tell..... no drama in a story that said... oh - gramps picked this MH out of a crate that was in an abandoned warehouse.)

There are probably more Japanese Samurai swords in the US as souvenir war prizes than there were officers in the Japanese army in WW2..... go figure.
 
i found it in a hut during a search, the old fella (like yoda old) had it hanging by its original sling on his wall, and the story i got from the village elder was that it was taken off a dead soldier and was used to fight the brits, their verbal history being filled in by several elders at this point, it was the real deal, had the british factory markings, we looked up the markings on the internet, we did find sevearl enfield type copies, but this one was an original

i woulda left them the rifle but he didnt want it do to the fact it still had the last cartridge it had fired stuck in it, those that no about martini henry's and the rolled brass ammo know they were prone to split cartridges, as was the case here, used a c-6 cleaning rod to pound out the round, a half bottle of wd-40 later and the action freed up and worked damn near like new

being a history geek i was pretty damn excited, i passed it off to an RCR guy when i left cuz i didnt have time to get the paperwork on it done, but i got to play with the rifle that 'with a bayonet and some guts behind it' helped shape the 'empire'

my previous rambling hopefully isnt too confusing/all over the place, i just think until the fighting is over the locals dont really trust us enough to replace the TB

mho
 
The ones we found were stamped with the symbol, ie crown, of Queen Victoria with the date 1867 on it.
 
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