Afghan Air Force Needs Planes, Parts

[Mortar guy]

All great ideas but just to throw some recent info into the mix:

The Afghan National Army Air Corps (as it's called) is already being mentored by CSTC-A: http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=46410

Also, they have L39s and An-26/An-32s so they are developing a fixed wing capability to include fast air. Of note is this quote from the article: "Last years’ $3.5 million budget is projected to expand to $450 million to begin purchasing aircraft. By 2011, the air corps will have more than 200 aircraft of different types in their inventory and will have the capability to operate anywhere in the country."

MG

 

[Loachman]

I wonder what they have on order...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I don't see them with a need for fixed-wing aircraft for a while. Helicopters would be far more useful immediately.

Avoid Russian stuff. Provide them with the same machines that NATO contingents are operating. It will simplify training and support in the long run. The specific benefit will come from integrating junior Afghan techs and aircrew with experienced personnel from NATO countries. Training a bunch of pilots and techs and letting them loose would be a disaster, and I wouldn't want to force personnel from NATO countries to work with crap machinery. I wouldn't want NATO troops to have to fly in these either.

If we keep giving these guys garbage, there will be an increasing rift between Afghans and us.

There are enough smart, motivated, and literate Afghans to do this, and, obviously, some already are.

Give them something useful, that can be integrated into the overall operation, and we all benefit.

On the fixed-wing side, similar aircrew and groundcrew training and integration should begin as soon as possible. Provision of aircraft could probably wait a little longer.

Actually there is nothing wrong with Russian Helo’s. In fact the largest helo working in Canada is the Mi-26, plus they are happily using Kamov’s here for heli-logging. They are big, powerful and fairly simple to repair. Unlike the Blackhawk which is fly by wire.
It is also unclear what is NATO future in Afghanistan, the western kit is likely become orphaned once we leave. However Russia is nearby and would likely be more than happy to have a stable government in Afghanistan they can sell to. Also there current crop of pilots and ground crew have grown up with Russian equipment and are used to it. The biggest issue with Russian aircraft are their engines and it is likely that they will improve them as continue to compete internationally. According to the link below, there are 12,000 Mi-8’s out there, so spare parts won’t be drying up any time soon. 

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/mi8t/

 

[Scoobs]

I don't see them with a need for fixed-wing aircraft for a while. Helicopters would be far more useful immediately.

Avoid Russian stuff. Provide them with the same machines that NATO contingents are operating. It will simplify training and support in the long run. The specific benefit will come from integrating junior Afghan techs and aircrew with experienced personnel from NATO countries. Training a bunch of pilots and techs and letting them loose would be a disaster, and I wouldn't want to force personnel from NATO countries to work with crap machinery. I wouldn't want NATO troops to have to fly in these either.

If we keep giving these guys garbage, there will be an increasing rift between Afghans and us.

There are enough smart, motivated, and literate Afghans to do this, and, obviously, some already are.

Give them something useful, that can be integrated into the overall operation, and we all benefit.

On the fixed-wing side, similar aircrew and groundcrew training and integration should begin as soon as possible. Provision of aircraft could probably wait a little longer.

Loachman,

I'm hurt!!  Not!!!  I'm used to dealing with pilots, but you forgot the Maintenance Officers.  After all, someone has to keep you old pilots in line when you want 12 Griffons to do a mission the night before Frigid Lion!!!!

 

[Loachman]

Actually there is nothing wrong with Russian Helo’s.

Well, you fly them then. It may be simple prejudice, but I would not want to fly any Russian helicopter more than the once that it takes to be able to say that I'd done it and had something different to put in my logbook. Those that I have seen (Hip) did not inspire me with any notion to the contrary.

Older Black Hawks have conventional controls. UH-60M is fly-by-wire. As the US Army has opted not to upgrade existing machines in favour of purchasing new ones, there will be about 1500 on the block over the next few years. Some other Muslim countries are already operating UH-60 as well.

I would not want to leave the Russians with any influence at all in Afghanistan or anywhere else. If the Afghans are going to be dependent upon anybody else, I'd rather that it was us.

Should the Taliban or any similar successor seize the country, I'd rather see orphaned Western fleets marooned there than Russian ones as the supply of parts could more easily be shut off.

 

[Loachman]

I'm used to dealing with pilots, but you forgot the Maintenance Officers.

No, I didn't. I made the split between pilots and techs, aircrew and ground crew. I had no intention of getting into a detailed orbat, nor did I differentiate between ranks. Some of the techs could be commissioned, and most of the pilots could be NCOs.

After all, someone has to keep you old pilots in line when you want 12 Griffons to do a mission the night before Frigid Lion!!!!

I have never wanted 12 Griffons the night before Frigid Lion...

 

[GAP]

Should the Taliban or any similar successor seize the country, I'd rather see orphaned Western fleets marooned there than Russian ones as the supply of parts could more easily be shut off.

Think "Iran" "Tomcat F-14?"

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Well, you fly them then. It may be simple prejudice, but I would not want to fly any Russian helicopter more than the once that it takes to be able to say that I'd done it and had something different to put in my logbook. Those that I have seen (Hip) did not inspire me with any notion to the contrary.

Older Black Hawks have conventional controls. UH-60M is fly-by-wire. As the US Army has opted not to upgrade existing machines in favour of purchasing new ones, there will be about 1500 on the block over the next few years. Some other Muslim countries are already operating UH-60 as well.

I would not want to leave the Russians with any influence at all in Afghanistan or anywhere else. If the Afghans are going to be dependent upon anybody else, I'd rather that it was us.

Should the Taliban or any similar successor seize the country, I'd rather see orphaned Western fleets marooned there than Russian ones as the supply of parts could more easily be shut off.

I remember flying in a 214 in Venezuela and asking the pilot: “so do any of your instruments work…?”

Regardless of nationality, a poorly maintained helo is bad news.

The Russian have more reason to fear a Taliban government in Kabul than us, so I expect they will offer more deals to them.

Thanks for the information on the UH-60, I was under the impression that they were all fly by wire, if I recall correctly they lost quite a few before they sorted that system out.

 

[geo]

Russians are really upset with it's former Soviet block allies - they have been selling AKs while the Russian plants sit idle.

Sad - Isn't it!

I am certain they would be more than happy to sell slightly used & reconditioned Soviet gear

 

[1feral1]

Give 'em Spads, ha!

These people have problems pulling a rifle thru!

Flying training? Then maintenance of the aircraft? It would be a bloody nightmare!

See what I mean? Spads!

Cheers,

Wes

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Well this video shows clearly the Russian have reduced the downtime by reducing the number of moving parts....

http://rutube.ru/tracks/216947.html?...14beb038730d55

 

[Scoobs]

No, I didn't. I made the split between pilots and techs, aircrew and ground crew. I had no intention of getting into a detailed orbat, nor did I differentiate between ranks. Some of the techs could be commissioned, and most of the pilots could be NCOs.

I have never wanted 12 Griffons the night before Frigid Lion...

Loachman,

I was only playing with you.  However, some pilots have wanted that number of a/c before an exercise, so yes, Maint O's would be good for the Afghans to have.  But in general, my comment was just light hearted at nature.

 

[GAP]

Pilots, Equipment to Jump-Start Afghan Air Corps
By David Mays Special to American Forces Press Service
Article Link

WASHINGTON, Oct. 31, 2007 - Highly experienced Afghan pilots soon will take to the skies in newly acquired aircraft as part of a concerted effort to accelerate progress of Afghanistan's nascent air corps, a coalition commander said today.

"When you look at the country of Afghanistan, with the limited road structure -- there is no rail capacity -- just the ability to move logistics by air will be a tremendous enabler capability to the army," Air Force Brig. Gen. Jay Lindell told online journalists and "bloggers" during a conference call from the Afghan capital of Kabul.

Lindell commands the Combined Air Power Transition Force, which is the aviation component of Combined Security Transition Command Afghanistan overseen by U.S. Central Command. He and 130 American soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines are helping build capability in the Afghan National Army Air Corps.

"Most of what the Afghan air corps needs are resources: aircraft, spare parts and maintenance support equipment," Lindell said. "The Afghan air corps has ability and desire; they need resources to give them capability. And that's what we are doing; we are boosting their capability rapidly."

For instance, the coalition transition force has arranged to add 16 MI-17 transport helicopters, six MI-35 attack choppers and four Antonov 32 transport turboprop planes to the Afghan flightline over the next six months, the general explained. Additional Western medium-lift aircraft are expected to arrive in 2009, he said.

"As we give them these aircraft, they'll be able to train themselves with their own instructors and quickly generate capability," Lindell said.
More on link

 

[geo]

Why do I get the impression we'll be seeing Afghans flying "crop duster" missions in the near future

 

[TN2IC]

What about an Afghan Navy?  ;D

Regards,
Sgt Schultz

 

[geo]

Nah... A coast guard - To run boats on that lake formed by the Dam in Helmand province.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Considering how rugged this country is, the Afghan Air Force will play an important role in the future, even if they just have helicopters and transports. It will help the central government project their authority.

 

[GAP]

An old thread, the subject is the same.....

C-27As for the Afghan Air Force
02-Oct-2008 16:00 EDT
Article Link

The Afghanistan National Army Air Corps (ANAAC) is just getting to its feet, with about 6 flyable AN-32s and a pair of AN-26 light transport aircraft, about 38 Mi-17 assault transports and Mi-35 attack helicopters combined, and a small fleet of L-39 trainer/ light attack aircraft. Many of its pilots are older men, and ANAAC has not graduated a new pilot since 1992.

An 8-year plan has been drawn up to begin training a new crop of pilots, and expand the air force. The ultimate goal is a force that can support the Afghan Army against al-Qaeda/ Taliban elements that launch raids within the country, or from across the border with Pakistan. Given Afghanistan’s rugged terrain and sparse infrastructure, however, a decision has been made to make tactical transportation of troops and supplies ANACC’s top priority. This explains US NAVAIR’s efforts to secure the Ukrainian AN-32s, which offered familiar technology even though the spares situation is less than ideal.

Now a 3-way deal has been made involving Italy, which will send some of its Alenia G.222 (C-27A) light transports to Afghanistan after a refurbishment program conducted by Alenia North America…

Contracts and Key Events

Sept 29/08: Alenia North America, Inc. of Washington, DC receives a not-to-exceed $287 million firm-fixed-price contract. The program currently includes 18 aircraft in a standardized operational configuration as well as the modules to convert 2 aircraft to a VIP Transport configuration if required.

The G.222/C-27A was not known as an easy aircraft to maintain, but it does feature outstanding short runway performance, and offers proven performance in hot weather and high altitudes. The spares and maintenance issue is being addressed through the program via an initial spare parts inventory, ground support equipment, technical publications in English and Dari, and 3 years worth of contractor logistics support.
More on link

 

[The_Falcon]

An old thread, the subject is the same.....

C-27As for the Afghan Air Force
02-Oct-2008 16:00 EDT
Article Link

The Afghanistan National Army Air Corps (ANAAC) is just getting to its feet, with about 6 flyable AN-32s and a pair of AN-26 light transport aircraft, about 38 Mi-17 assault transports and Mi-35 attack helicopters combined, and a small fleet of L-39 trainer/ light attack aircraft. Many of its pilots are older men, and ANAAC has not graduated a new pilot since 1992.

An 8-year plan has been drawn up to begin training a new crop of pilots, and expand the air force. The ultimate goal is a force that can support the Afghan Army against al-Qaeda/ Taliban elements that launch raids within the country, or from across the border with Pakistan. Given Afghanistan’s rugged terrain and sparse infrastructure, however, a decision has been made to make tactical transportation of troops and supplies ANACC’s top priority. This explains US NAVAIR’s efforts to secure the Ukrainian AN-32s, which offered familiar technology even though the spares situation is less than ideal.

Now a 3-way deal has been made involving Italy, which will send some of its Alenia G.222 (C-27A) light transports to Afghanistan after a refurbishment program conducted by Alenia North America…

Contracts and Key Events

Sept 29/08: Alenia North America, Inc. of Washington, DC receives a not-to-exceed $287 million firm-fixed-price contract. The program currently includes 18 aircraft in a standardized operational configuration as well as the modules to convert 2 aircraft to a VIP Transport configuration if required.

The G.222/C-27A was not known as an easy aircraft to maintain, but it does feature outstanding short runway performance, and offers proven performance in hot weather and high altitudes. The spares and maintenance issue is being addressed through the program via an initial spare parts inventory, ground support equipment, technical publications in English and Dari, and 3 years worth of contractor logistics support.
More on link

Why am I picturing the equivalent of flying LSVW's ? >