Accidents involving Emergency Vehicles

[mariomike]

My dental hygienist told me she was ticketed for the Ontario Move Over law,

First Offence - $400 to $2,000, plus 3 demerit points upon conviction

Second Offence (within 5 years) - $1,000 to $4,000, possible jail time up to 6 months and possible suspension of driver's licence for up to 2 years.

 

[lenaitch]

The tow truck operators in Toronto must have run Code in their own way too, because they always got there before we did

The towing industry in Toronto is a world unto itself.

So usually a rolling "stop" if traffic is around but clear, and if visibly clear not even slowing down.

Similar. There are rules and then there is practice. If you hit somebody, even after a full stop, the liability is still there, but the dollar value might change.

One of my biggest Pet Peeves is the color of the lights used across the Different States (and Provinces) for Emergency Vehicles.
I really wish that there could be one identifiable standard for LE, one for Fire, and one for EMS.
So you don't have some states SnowPlows running Blue, and have folks pulling over thinking it's a Police vehicle etc..

I figure if it is any colour but amber (which is completely unregulated in Ontario) and coming up on you fast, pull over; if it follows you to the shoulder - oops. I didn't think any jurisdiction outside of Ontario ever had blue for snow ploughs. They are otherwise pretty identifiable as not emergency vehicles. If it is coming up behind you, perhaps you are travelling a tad slow. Actually, we did have a guy in a highways yard at a town I worked in who did plough at about the speed limit - said it kept the snow banks lower. A couple of time I saw him pass traffic with the blade down (wing up - he wasn't a complete maniac ).

 

[mariomike]

My personal choice would be a 5 trumpet train horn.....

That would create quite the sound effect in the forest of skyscrapers downtown.

One of my biggest Pet Peeves is the color of the lights used across the Different States (and Provinces) for Emergency Vehicles.

Ontario ambulance lights switched from red and white to red and blue.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1110149894017294336

 

[RangerRay]

So you don't have some states SnowPlows running Blue, and have folks pulling over thinking it's a Police vehicle etc..

We have that in Manitoba. Drives me nuts!

 

[medicineman]

I've been in ambulances as driver, co-driver and in back in a number of near misses because drivers just don't know what to do if they see the lights coming at them...if it weren't for a seat belt, I'd have gone through the windshield when someone literally slammed on the brakes in the middle of Crowchild at 80 km/h right in front of us with nowhere for us to go...I've almost been shot by military police in Ft Lewis coming back onto post, lights going, but was after dark and I didn't dim my headlights and had a near miss in Winnipeg doing a critical care transfer from my ER - 3 of 4 of us in the back flopping around when someone cut us off in an intersection with lights and sirens going - I was in the jumpseat holding an endotracheal tube in place on a young child we were ventilating. If I wasn't placed where I was, that would have been ripped out of her burnt throat.

I don't trust most drivers in Manitoba on a good day...followed closely by pretty much every province I've lived/worked/held a driver's licence in...and Quebec.

 

[mariomike]

We called it, "siren-cide".

A phenomenon used to describe the emotional reaction of emergency vehicle drivers when they begin to feel a sense of power and urgency that blocks out reason and prudence, leading to the reckless operation of the emergency vehicle.

40 hours a week of 9-1-1 driving ( CZ bus ) in one of the most traffic congested cities in North America for over 36 years.

GTFO the day I turned 55.

Not a scratch on a City-owned vehicle .

Learned the secret from my first partner watching him drive. I felt totally safe with him behind the wheel.

He was a Defensive Driver. Especially when the lights went on.

 

[ff149]

I had to take an airport crash truck from a military airfield to a civilian airport for mutual aid, going light and sirens. That was some of the most stressful driving I’ve ever had to do. A large truck down some country roads, with most people not recognizing what this truck was. Made it there and back but kept waiting for the report that I may have clipped someone without noticing it, they are heavy and you don’t always feel it if it rubs some one. hardest part was when two cars would pull over directly across from each other.

 

[Blackadder1916]

I was in the back of our VW ambulance with a patient (cardiac) going lights and sirens from the HSU on the airfield in Ismailia to the Polish hospital in town. We were waved through the two Egyptian Army checkpoints, were weaving through local traffic and were on a bridge over one of the canals when all traffic was brought to a standstill. By all traffic, I mean "all". This was done by a sudden influx of police and army that sealed off all roads and side streets on the proposed route of then President Sadat. Seems the routine was to clear, without prior notice, his travel route of all vehicles a minimum of two hours before he passed and up to an hour after he had passed. Even if we could have convinced the security forces to let us quickly pass before Sadat arrived (we tried but they wouldn't listen), we were so jammed in by other vehicles movement was impossible. What should have been no more than a 10 to 15 minute trip ended up being over three hours. Our patient survived; Sadat was assassinated two and a half years later.

 

[BrianWL]

I can. I subscribe to Ron Pratt's channel out of Scott City, MO.

https://www.youtube.com/@RonPratt

Ron runs "Code", as he calls it, lots of times.

The tow truck operators in Toronto must have run Code in their own way too, because they always got there before we did.

We called it, "siren-cide".


40 hours a week of 9-1-1 driving ( CZ bus ) in one of the most traffic congested cities in North America for over 36 years.

GTFO the day I turned 55.

Not a scratch on a City-owned vehicle .

Learned the secret from my first partner watching him drive. I felt totally safe with him behind the wheel.

He was a Defensive Driver. Especially when the lights went on.

your first partner clearly learned that even if driving a moving billboard, with loud noises and lights...........does not form some kind of a special forcefield. and as I say to my young hard chargers...........can't do any good, if you never get there.

 

[mariomike]

I had to take an airport crash truck from a military airfield to a civilian airport for mutual aid, going light and sirens. That was some of the most stressful driving I’ve ever had to do.

Our buses were regularly sent to Toronto-Pearson on emergency standbly for inbound aircraft reporting problems.

As well as any other multi-patient 9-1-1 calls in and around the GTA. Multi-patient buses are pretty rare in Canada. Back then, outside of Metro, they were non-existant - as far as I know.

We required Ontario Class CZ licences.

Driving a 40-foot bus with air brakes took a little getting used to. They don't stop as quickly, for one thing. Driver visibility was vastly improved over the "Old look" model. It was superb, like sitting in a greenhouse compared to its "submarine" predecessor.

It had no power-steering. The power came from well developed arm muscles, and the leverage of a large wheel and high ( numerical ) steering ratio. I never counted, but was told it took 22 turns from lock to lock. My car probably turns 3.

Speed-sapping hills had to be planned for, as well as allowing for the unpredictability of other motorist reactions when "lit up like a Christmas tree".

It had a high-floor. Low-floor wheel-chair accessibilty had not yet been mandated. Carrying the F-W #9 stretchers up the stairs, and double-stacking patients was back-breaking work.

We also operated trucks.

your first partner clearly learned that even if driving a moving billboard, with loud noises and lights...........does not form some kind of a special forcefield. and as I say to my young hard chargers...........can't do any good, if you never get there.

I learned from one of the best. R.I.P.

 

[mariomike]

I have met a number of experienced EHS personal, that prefer to travel with minimal lights and sirens. Just using them to get through crowded intersections slowly and carefully.

Who needs air horns and Rumblers?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1134988204707393537

 

[medicineman]

What should have been no more than a 10 to 15 minute trip ended up being over three hours. Our patient survived; Sadat was assassinated two and a half years later.

But he wasn't assassinated by vehicle interdiction

 

[Blackadder1916]

But he wasn't assassinated by vehicle interdiction

But they got to him by vehicle.

 

[medicineman]

But they got to him by vehicle.

That is true, but not on the way there or back...

 

[mariomike]

Saw this in another thread.

Traffic accidents happen even on the best of days, slow down & watch those crossroads.

Good advice.

How seriously is Defensive Driving taken in our emergency services of today?

I've had 14 years of retirement observing as a pedestrian.
From what I see, it makes me wonder.

That's not very scientific. But, according to the U.S. National Safety Council, emergency vehicle drivers accounted for 11% of those killed in emergency vehicle crashes.

89% of those killed in emergency vehicle accidents were "others".

Like James Dean said, "Take it easy driving– the life you save may be mine."

 

[KevinB]

Saw this in another thread.



Good advice.

How seriously is Defensive Driving taken in our emergency services of today?

I've had 14 years of retirement observing as a pedestrian.
From what I see, it makes me wonder.

That's not very scientific. But, according to the U.S. National Safety Council, emergency vehicle drivers accounted for 11% of those killed in emergency vehicle crashes.

89% of those killed in emergency vehicle accidents were "others".

Like James Dean said, "Take it easy driving– the life you save may be mine."

It’s not just Emergency Vehicles, it’s just a complete level of complacency that occurs in so many drivers.

My only accident in a Police vehicle was in an unmarked Tahoe - when a marked car from a town several miles away ran into me at a stop sign. He was unaware of what I was, until I put the lights on after he hit me.
But I’ve been hit a few times at stop signs and traffic lights by drivers who are busy focused on their phone.

People are extremely overconfident of their ability to drive…
They should not be.

 

[medicineman]

Weird anecdote...just be fore I left Gagetown, I was in Fredericton and driving back home from my gf to do my final clean out of my house. We were taking a long time getting though a light...finall get to the intersection and see someone having a nap in the crosswalk...with a car nearby with a started windscreen.

I pulled over, got my emergency kit out and went to work looking after the lady that got smacked. Ambulance and Fire arrived almost simultaneously - however the ambulance was waved over and turned out they were from a different county going back home. We co-managed the lady, got her into the ambulance and off they went lights and siren to the hospital about 6 blocks away. While I'm talking to the police a couple minutes later, the city ambulance that was parked across the street (that likely had the original call), went tearing out lights/sirens heading that same direction.

I came to find out later in the paper that this lady's ambulance was going through an intersection a block from the hospital, with the green light in favour, lit and noisy, and got TBoned by some shithead that thought the intersection was cleared for him and knocked the vehicle clean over on its side...with the 2 paramedics, ICU nurse and patient inside. The city EMS crew I saw tearing out across the street were going to help their colleagues.

Found out that my old boss was working in the ER when they were all brought in - she was doing pre-deployment training/retraining in critical care so I heard a bit more about stuff after the fact - everyone lived, but the lady that was hurt the first time needed to go to the trauma unit in St John.

 

[mariomike]

My only accident in a Police vehicle was in an unmarked Tahoe - when a marked car from a town several miles away ran into me at a stop sign. He was unaware of what I was, until I put the lights on after he hit me.

We used Tahoes and Crown Victoria's as one-paramedic Emergency Response Units ( ERU ) aka "Clock-stoppers". That's all they had to do. Just get to the scene, and stop the clock.

Getting to the scene was one thing, but hauling bus loads of stretcher patients from scenes double-stacked on each other was another.

 

[CBH99]

Weird anecdote...just be fore I left Gagetown, I was in Fredericton and driving back home from my gf to do my final clean out of my house. We were taking a long time getting though a light...finall get to the intersection and see someone having a nap in the crosswalk...with a car nearby with a started windscreen.

I pulled over, got my emergency kit out and went to work looking after the lady that got smacked. Ambulance and Fire arrived almost simultaneously - however the ambulance was waved over and turned out they were from a different county going back home. We co-managed the lady, got her into the ambulance and off they went lights and siren to the hospital about 6 blocks away. While I'm talking to the police a couple minutes later, the city ambulance that was parked across the street (that likely had the original call), went tearing out lights/sirens heading that same direction.

I came to find out later in the paper that this lady's ambulance was going through an intersection a block from the hospital, with the green light in favour, lit and noisy, and got TBoned by some shithead that thought the intersection was cleared for him and knocked the vehicle clean over on its side...with the 2 paramedics, ICU nurse and patient inside. The city EMS crew I saw tearing out across the street were going to help their colleagues.

Found out that my old boss was working in the ER when they were all brought in - she was doing pre-deployment training/retraining in critical care so I heard a bit more about stuff after the fact - everyone lived, but the lady that was hurt the first time needed to go to the trauma unit in St John.

Literally one of those stories that ya can't make up!

Funny how the world works - and what doesn't make sense at first sometimes ends up making sense in the end, like your situation.


I was chatting with a guy earlier today actually at work who has spent the last 3 years LIVID at a 911 operator for EMS.

He's a taxi driver who had just driven a fare home, and (I'm foggy on all the details) she ended up having an overdose like immediately after he had dropped her off. (He had only driven like 5ft away when he saw her collapse)

So he's on the phone with 911 trying to get an ambulance on scene & be walked through what to do, and the 911 operator tells him not to do CPR on the lady, for what most of us would consider an obvious reason.

But he has no experience or knowledge in what to do, and couldn't understand why the 911 operator was telling him to back away from the patient and to not perform CPR...

The lady died in his arms, and he was extremely shaken up by it. Went to counseling, really struggled with the whole thing

 

[CBH99]

Anyway he's been angry at EMS all this time and couldn't understand why they would tell him not to help her.

Once I explained the fentanyl risk, and that there was a very good chance he would have died too if there was any fentanyl in the drugs she took & then he proceeded to place his lips on hers, all of a sudden 'it clicked'


Somewhere in all of that, my story was supposed to relate to your story about how not having all the details can make something sound crazy at first

(Half my story posted when the website did its midnight thing, and now that I'm finishing it 3 hours later it doesn't relate as well as I thought it did)



That ambulance that was parked right across the street the whole time, while another ambulance got dispatched on its way back to its own area...you don't know if they ALSO use a dispatch system called CADS, do you?