A Question

[CPOUSCG]

Are CPOs in the RCN afforded the same rights, privileges, and responsibilities as Chief Petty Officers in the US Navy and The US Coast Guard? Separate messing and quarters, uniform differences from junior sailors etc.

Are there indoctrination/initiation rights and ceremonies for advancing to CPO in the RCN such as there are in the US?

In the the USN and USCG advancing to "Chief" is the single most important advancement in a sailor's life, is this similar in the RCN?

Thanks,
Chief Machinery Technician Nate Mayo, US Coast Guard

 

[Lumber]

Separate messing and quarters, uniform differences from junior sailors etc.

Yes and no. The uniform is exactly the same as everyone else on board (including officers). Only the rank insignia is different.

However, ranks of PO2 and above have their own messes separate from the junior ranks, and generally (from my very limited experience) POs (1  and 2) live together, and CPO2s live together. There is usually only ever one CPO1 on on board.

Also, just for clarification, the RCN with which you refer (Royal Canadian Navy) ceased to exist in 1968. Officially it is the "Canadian Forces Maritime Command", and commonly it is simply the "Canadian Navy".

 

[ekpiper]

Hello CMT,

First, welcome to these forums!

As a point of technicality, we're not called the Royal Canadian Navy anymore, just Canadian Navy, or most correctly, Canadian Forces Maritime Command.  This has been in effect for 42 years now, following the unification of our forces under one command.

There are no longer any major differences between the uniforms of the Non-Commissioned Members (NCMs) and Officers except rank insignia and cap badges.  CPOs comprise the 2 highest Non-Commissioned pay groups.  The Chiefs mess and billet with other Petty Officers, but whereas your PO3 holds the equivalent of our Leading Seaman, our lowest Petty Officer rank (PO2) is equivalent to a PO1 from the United States.

In general, we have adopted an Army pattern to our rank groupings, in the sense that like the Army, where Sergeants through Chief Warrant Officers are the semior group of members, our equivalent to the sergeant is the PO2, and those from PO2 through CPO1 have many similar privileges.  CPO1s, like their Army counterparts, will have the accoutrements of an officer, specifically the cap badge.

I am unable to comment on initiation/ceremonial type stuff, nor on the size of the step to Chief in the mindset of the NCM, but I believe that there is less of a perceived gap between CPOs and their subordinates in our Navy.

Once again, welcome.

ekpiper

 

[CPOUSCG]

Lumber & ekpiper,

Thank you for the responses and the information. Forgive my ignorance on the correct name of the Canadian Navy(CFMC). I do apologize.

We in the USCG have also changed to a uniform that all members(officer/enlisted) wear, save the only differences being the collar and cap devices differ upon rank.

Again, thanks for the responses.  During our time of transition from Junior NCO to Senior NCO (CPO, SCPO, MCPO) we are often charged with finding information on our sister naval services so that we may pass on what we learn to those who come after.

 

[CPOUSCG]

Hello CMT,

First, welcome to these forums!

As a point of technicality, we're not called the Royal Canadian Navy anymore, just Canadian Navy, or most correctly, Canadian Forces Maritime Command.  This has been in effect for 42 years now, following the unification of our forces under one command.

There are no longer any major differences between the uniforms of the Non-Commissioned Members (NCMs) and Officers except rank insignia and cap badges.  CPOs comprise the 2 highest Non-Commissioned pay groups.  The Chiefs mess and billet with other Petty Officers, but whereas your PO3 holds the equivalent of our Leading Seaman, our lowest Petty Officer rank (PO2) is equivalent to a PO1 from the United States.

In general, we have adopted an Army pattern to our rank groupings, in the sense that like the Army, where Sergeants through Chief Warrant Officer are the "Senior NCOs", our equivalent to the sergeant is the PO2, and those from PO2 through CPO1 have many similar privileges.  CPO1s, like their Army counterparts, will have the accoutrements of an officer, specifically the cap badge.

I am unable to comment on initiation/ceremonial type stuff, nor on the size of the step to Chief in the mindset of the NCO, but I believe that there is less of a perceived gap between CPOs and their subordinates in our Navy.

Once again, welcome.

ekpiper

I notice that you have the USCG Motto as part of your profile. Always Ready shipmate.

 

[CPOUSCG]

ekpiper,

Its a little odd, but just as a point of technicality, while my title is a Chief Machinery Technician, the abbreviation is MKC. Like the USN the USCG uses rating(specialty) first, which its abbreviation is MK(not MT because if one were to say MT with the right emphasis, it becomes empty, then I would be an empty Chief, which needs no explanation) followed by rank/rate/paygrade. So I started as an MK3 (Third Class Machinery Technician), MK2, MK1 and now MKC. After that it becomes slightly more confusing because my next advancement would make me a Senior Chief Machinery Technician or MKCS. ;D

 

[George Wallace]

ekpiper,

Its a little odd, but just as a point of technicality, while my title is a Chief Machinery Technician, the abbreviation is MKC. Like the USN the USCG uses rating(specialty) first, which its abbreviation is MK(not MT because if one were to say MT with the right emphasis, it becomes empty, then I would be an empty Chief, which needs no explanation) followed by rank/rate/paygrade. So I started as an MK3 (Third Class Machinery Technician), MK2, MK1 and now MKC. After that it becomes slightly more confusing because my next advancement would make me a Senior Chief Machinery Technician or MKCS. ;D

You know that is very similar to what we have here.  Are you French?  In Canada, we have all our abbreviations in English, and the French translations are usually the reverse order; ie.  CFB (Canadian Forces Base) is BFC (Base Forces Canadien).    ;D

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

whereas your PO3 holds the equivalent of our Leading Seaman, our lowest Petty Officer rank (PO2) is equivalent to a PO1 from the United States.

:-\ Always a debate when booking R&Q at USN bases, but I believe that the ranks correspond more like:

USN Chief Petty Officer - CF PO2 & CF PO1
USN Senior Chief Petty Officer - CF CPO2
USN Master Chief Petty Officer - CF CPO1

The reason I group them like that is that our PO2 is a Senior NCO whereas a USN PO1 is a Junior NCO.  Our MS is employed like a USN PO1 and is a more correct equivalent IMHO.

 

[CPOUSCG]

You know that is very similar to what we have here.  Are you French?  In Canada, we have all our abbreviations in English, and the French translations are usually the reverse order; ie.  CFB (Canadian Forces Base) is BFC (Base Forces Canadien).    ;D

Again, pardon my ignorance but, does RCD in your profile stand for Royal Canadian Dragoons? Also thank you for you thirty years of service.

 

[George Wallace]

Again, pardon my ignorance but, does RCD in your profile stand for Royal Canadian Dragoons? Also thank you for you thirty years of service.

Yes.  No need for thanks......It makes me blush.

I find that Wikipedia sometimes has a good chart of equivalent ranks (when it isn't being edited)

We break our three Messes down along the lines of E5 and below being the Junior Ranks, although our MCpl/MS (E5) do have access to those Messes in the States.  E6 through E9 make up the Sgt and WO Mess/Snr NCO Mess.  All our officers fall into the Officers Mess.  We don't have a real equivalent to the US Warrant Officer or Technical NCOs; only the Officer ranks and the OR ranks.  We do have ORs who are Specialists, but they have no special ranks, only different Pay Scales.

 

[CPOUSCG]

Yes.  No need for thanks......It makes me blush.

I find that Wikipedia sometimes has a good chart of equivalent ranks (when it isn't being edited)

We break our three Messes down along the lines of E5 and below being the Junior Ranks, although our MCpl/MS (E5) do have access to those Messes in the States.  E6 through E9 make up the Sgt and WO Mess/Snr NCO Mess.  All our officers fall into the Officers Mess.  We don't have a real equivalent to the US Warrant Officer or Technical NCOs; only the Officer ranks and the OR ranks.  We do have ORs who are Specialists, but they have no special ranks, only different Pay Scales.

Thanks for the additional information. I consulted wiki, but find that things are often lost in translation. I.e. it would show E-7s in the USN and USCG as just the next rank after E-6 whereas in actuallity there is a far greater difference between the two in the USN and USCG. It also still used RCN in many places.

 

[CPOUSCG]

:-\ Always a debate when booking R&Q at USN bases, but I believe that the ranks correspond more like:

USN Chief Petty Officer - CF PO2 & CF PO1
USN Senior Chief Petty Officer - CF CPO2
USN Master Chief Petty Officer - CF CPO1

The reason I group them like that is that our PO2 is a Senior NCO whereas a USN PO1 is a Junior NCO.  Our MS is employed like a USN PO1 and is a more correct equivalent IMHO.

Thank you for the break downs.

 

[ekpiper]

MKC,

I knew that the PO ranks were like that, but I didn't know it carried on to the Chiefs.  Thank you for correcting me.

As for the divisions,  I was using NATO rank codes to compare the respective levels, but you have personal experience, which is always better.

ekpiper

 

[CPOUSCG]

MKC,

I knew that the PO ranks were like that, but I didn't know it carried on to the Chiefs.  Thank you for correcting me.

As for the divisions,  I was using NATO rank codes to compare the respective levels, but you have personal experience, which is always better.

ekpiper

That's the exact reason I wanted to correspond with people who live it. And please don't thank me . Y'all have been more than cordial and I have already learned a lot more than when I started.

 

[TankCowboy]

The Wikipedia page you are looking for is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranks_and_insignia_of_NATO.

A useful link for any NCO to have.

 

[CPOUSCG]

The Wikipedia page you are looking for is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranks_and_insignia_of_NATO.

A useful link for any NCO to have.

Thanks. But as posted above, wiki isn't really going to give me much insight past ranks.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Are there indoctrination/initiation rights and ceremonies for advancing to CPO in the RCN such as there are in the US?

No.  Maybe something very informal depending on the unit but nothing like the US system.