A question about Canadian Casualties

[KingofKeys]

I was looking at "http://www.ctv.ca/generic/generated/news/SECasualties.html" this morning. As i was browsing through each year, reading the short passage about each member, I realized something very odd - why are 99% of them NCM? I know officers are generally in a leadership position where they are more inclined to planning, but what about lower ranked officers? Do they not sit in with NCM during missions to actually "lead" their men?

I'm sorry if this question seems obvious to some of you, I'm just learning about the military and I thought it was a good question to bring up.

Also, it is my understanding that every mission will have officers (lower ranked officers) who physically lead their men, while higher ranked officer (and NCO) plan out these mission. Is this a myth or fact?

 

[Infanteer]

Hello KingofKeys,

It's simply a factor of numbers - for every officer out on operations, there will be roughly 40 NCMs.

You are largely correct in your understanding where lower ranked officers move out and physically lead their men; however, the higher ranked officers and NCMs make it out too.  You'll find links on this forum of the death of an RSM in 2006, the death of a British CO a few months ago, and an incident where BGen Vance's roving HQ got into a fight with ambushers.

 

[Good2Golf]

99% is not quite an accurate figure. 

Eight of 127 is 6.3%, thus 93.7% are NCMs.  That is a detail, but your question is valid in principle, in that the accepted ration of CF officers:NCMs is approximately 1:4.  Infanteer's points are quite valid as well...there are a number of senior officers out there on the battlefield, TF Comds/COS's, BG CO's/OC's, helo CO's/OC's, etc... and some have had close calls.  There but for the grace of God go any one of us.

Regards,
G2G

 

[X-mo-1979]

99% is not quite an accurate figure. 

Eight of 127 is 6.3%, thus 93.7% are NCMs.  That is a detail, but your question is valid in principle, in that the accepted ration of CF officers:NCMs is approximately 1:4.  Infanteer's points are quite valid as well...there are a number of senior officers out there on the battlefield, TF Comds/COS's, BG CO's/OC's, helo CO's/OC's, etc... and some have had close calls.  There but for the grace of God go any one of us.

Regards,
G2G

Again even your percentages can be skewed by how many officers died in combat and not suicide.Which could in itself bring up another statistic.I hate stats!!

Something else you can think of kingofkeys is that there were Officers critically wounded but survived as well.I would love to see a wounded list printed.Maybe Canada would understand the sacrifice some young men are making.

Again its a boots on the ground thing.

 

[Good2Golf]

I would love to see a wounded list printed.Maybe Canada would understand the sacrifice some young men are making.

Again its a boots on the ground thing.

...if you're willing to differentiate factors of cause of death, it seem's odd you would ignore gender, then.  Did not Nic Goddard make a sacrifice?

 

[Sonnyjim]

Not to stray from the original post (and if it needs it's own thread mods let me know), but to expand on the wounded soldiers comment...... do we have a rough idea as of this point in the war how many Canadians have been injured physically/psycologically/both? If we don't know, when do statistics like this come out, obviously I would assume the end of the war? And from there what will the end be considered as? Canada's end to the mission?

 

[GAP]

It's been published,.....don't remember the number, but it's out there...

 

[Gunner98]

Last figure I saw quoted was - as of 28 Dec 08: More than 360 since combat role started in 2006.

"New figures prepared for the Defence Department show the number of wounded Canadian soldiers totalled more than 360 in the past three full years of fighting in southern Afghanistan." 
More at link-
- http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/12/28/wounded-troops.html

 

[Nauticus]

...if you're willing to differentiate factors of cause of death, it seem's odd you would ignore gender, then.  Did not Nic Goddard make a sacrifice?

In his defense, that term can be interpreted as asexual. Meaning, he wasn't referring to any gender at all.

 

[Loachman]

...if you're willing to differentiate factors of cause of death, it seem's odd you would ignore gender, then.  Did not Nic Goddard make a sacrifice?

And Karine Blais and Michelle Mendes.

 

[X-mo-1979]

...if you're willing to differentiate factors of cause of death, it seem's odd you would ignore gender, then.  Did not Nic Goddard make a sacrifice?

What the hell does suicide have to do with Goddard?Really.Taking your own life and getting killed by an enemy is two totally different ballgames.As I said another stat could be 25 percent of Officers killed in Afganistan have been suicide.Thats the stats.

Thanks for the post on the injured.

 

[X-mo-1979]

To edit:
I was using it in a asexual term... I just looked back and aw I typed men.
Think of it as when you read books where they put "HIM" in the place of "HIM/HER".

I dont call master seamen master seapeople either.

Sorry for bringing the topic off track by the use of "Men".

 

[Good2Golf]

...What the hell does suicide have to do with Goddard?Really.Taking your own life and getting killed by an enemy is two totally different ballgames.As I said another stat could be 25 percent of Officers killed in Afganistan have been suicide.Thats the stats.

Thanks for the post on the injured.

It doesn't. 

Read my post again, and the portion of your previous post I highlighted..."some young men". 

You were the one who brought suicide into the conversation -- no one else.

Then you commented about "the scarifice some young men are making...", which was precisely the point I was making by mentioning Nic's name...why did you limit your statement about sacrifice to "young men"?  And for that matter, why did you feel it necessary to comment on cause of death in the first place?  Why not also break out accidents in theatre?  Other causes?

My previous comment to yours was acknowledging to the original poster that his question still had a degree of validity, as the officer:NCM fatality ratio in AFG was still under-proportioned to the current CF Offr:NCM manning ratio of the CF overall.

You are the one who mentioned suicide, and you were then the one who provided a 25% officer suicide statistic.  Nobody else. 

Mirror check.


G2G

 

[X-mo-1979]

I mentioned above the asexual use of men.Refer to my post above your own.

25% is accurate according to MSM.
Now could their death be accredited to service?Who knows.However the basic fact is they did not die due to actions outside their control.

Mirror check indeed.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I think we've heard enough.

Locked

Milnet.ca Staff