836 RMS Clk Pride!

[Sympatico]

I've noticed a lot of pride of being many trades on this board but nothing about RMS.

and there's a lot of reason to be proud of our trade. We make the CF Work! Admin and Pay makes the civvie and military world go round and it all starts with us.  ;D

We're also really hardcore, you guys try spending 3 months at CFSAL in the summer.... and where else would you find all 3 elements working together like that!

I don't think we get the credit we deserve, our job is demanding difficult and there is one of us for ever 20 people in the CF.

So we would appreciate if you guys gave us a lil more respect ( we hear you badmouthing us in the mess  : )

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Reading your previous posts, it seems it's all take and no give on your part. Put some time in and get a true grasp of the situation before beaking off. While your at it, ask some of the old salts in the OR about 'quiet professionalism'. Every trade takes a slagging from others. The more mature take it as humour and nonsense. Instead of coming here demanding respect, how about delving into the issues to see why your trade is being picked on. Identify the problem(s) and throw your efforts into correcting the perceived injustices, instead of whining about them, which only justifies what your naysayers are talking about.

 

[rmacqueen]

Well said Recceguy.  Having been on both sides of the fence, so to speak, I think the RMS clerks are their own worst enemies.  Too many view it as an 8-4 job that doesn't involve field/sea time and really couldn't care less about the people they serve.  Personally, I think RMS should be a re-muster only trade, then when someone shows up at the counter looking for help there might be a little empathy shown.

 

[Chimo]

I will wade in, the RMS Clerks at our Regt work hard and are very professional. Not only are they well respected but actually like being posted to a Combat Arms unit.

I would offer the suggestion that respect, like most things worthing having, is something earned. Once that is done nothing can change it. If you are not feeling respected, perhaps a mirror check to see how you are coming off, is in order. Take pride in your work and sort out people that bad mouth your trade. Having said that, many a thing said in the Mess is said in jest. 

 

[Trinity]

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/47777/post-431419.html#msg431419

No.. of course there isn't any RMS pride

And of course in the above link I didn't step up and praise and defend RMS clerks.

It shows how little you've been around or have read.

 

[Roy Harding]

Son (or Daughter, I suppose):

  I spent 22 years as an Adm Clk/RMS Clk.  Prior to that, I was an Infmn.  I did seven tours, the last one in Afghanistan in '02.  ALL my time (with the exception of 4 years) was with field units.

  I agree with what someone above said, RMS should be a re-muster in trade only.  The best Clks I have ever served with were re-treads - in fact I would go so far as to say that ALL CSS trades should be re-muster only - do some time in the Cbt Arms, THEN support them.

  This is not to say that I haven't met some wonderful, dedicated, and talented people who joined as Clks, but they were the exception.

  You don't get respect by demanding it - you EARN it.  And you don't earn it by sitting in an office, demanding to be respected because "it all starts with us".

  During my career, I found that at the Jr Ranks level, inter-trade rivalry was at its' hottest - once you reach Sr NCO/WO level, you've come to respect what each other do, despite your individual trades.  My guess (which is all I have, as you haven't bothered to fill out your profile) is that you are a young, Junior Rank RMS Clk in a Reserve Regiment, or on your first posting in the Regular Force.

  Do your time, be a soldier first, tradesman second - respect will come, if it is deserved.  In the meantime - stop whining about your perceived lack of, and equally erroneous perception of entitlement to it.


Roy Harding
Warrant Officer (Retired)
Infmn 031/Adm Clk 831/RMS Clk 836

 

[big bad john]

Son (or Daughter, I suppose):

  I spent 22 years as an Adm Clk/RMS Clk.  Prior to that, I was an Infmn.  I did seven tours, the last one in Afghanistan in '02.  ALL my time (with the exception of 4 years) was with field units.

  I agree with what someone above said, RMS should be a re-muster in trade only.  The best Clks I have ever served with were re-treads - in fact I would go so far as to say that ALL CSS trades should be re-muster only - do some time in the Cbt Arms, THEN support them.

  This is not to say that I haven't met some wonderful, dedicated, and talented people who joined as Clks, but they were the exception.

  You don't get respect by demanding it - you EARN it.  And you don't earn it by sitting in an office, demanding to be respected because "it all starts with us".

  During my career, I found that at the Jr Ranks level, inter-trade rivalry was at its' hottest - once you reach Sr NCO/WO level, you've come to respect what each other do, despite your individual trades.  My guess (which is all I have, as you haven't bothered to fill out your profile) is that you are a young, Junior Rank RMS Clk in a Reserve Regiment, or on your first posting in the Regular Force.

  Do your time, be a soldier first, tradesman second - respect will come, if it is deserved.  In the meantime - stop whining about your perceived lack of, and equally erroneous perception of entitlement to it.


Roy Harding
Warrant Officer (Retired)
Infmn 031/Adm Clk 831/RMS Clk 836

Very well said Roy.  Now take the message to heart lad and get on with the job!

 

[Zertz]

I'm reminded of my recent SQ FTX (Yes, I'm an extremely green newbie) where one of the Sergeants (former infantry, now clerk) said to me, "Come on, get some balls into that yell, 3-2-1 RMS!"

 

[GO!!!]

+1 to all of what Roy said.

When the clerks are professional, and willing to work until the work is done, they are respected, because Admin is important.

I can think of Coy clerks we've had that never, ever, under any circumstances did PT, left town for exercises, or performed any sort of duty without specifically being ordered to. They were often mocked for what they were; lazy.

We've also had clerks that were so organised it was scary. FOA handed out three days prior to the EX, instead of three months post, pers files and MPRRs updated continuously and correctly, pay issues addressed in a timely manner, claims paid within a week or two of handing in the requisite paperwork - it was great, and everyone was sorry to see him go!

People of all trades and ranks who do their jobs well are respected, it's just the way it works.

 

[rmacqueen]

Well said Roy

 

[CorporalMajor]

realize that there are these kinds of grudges against pretty much every trade... some say RMS people are as described; lazy and/or wimpy, and guess what, combat trades like infantry for example have a stereotype that depicts them all as goonish or undereducated.

as said before, if you do your job well and recognise that you are a soldier before anything else - and be a likeable person who doesn't give attitude or complain - you will earn respect.

Don't forget, RMS is one of the trades that "everyone is nice to" alongside cooks, supply etc, not because there are relatively few, but also because they have a big job to do AND can really screw other people around if they're not treated nicely 

best wishes

 

[PO2FinClk]

I agree with what someone above said, RMS should be a re-muster in trade only.

Agreed !!!

 

[CorporalMajor]

Then you would have fewer 836s. I joined RMS for a reason and that is to become one.....and who wants less clerks, they're always in demand for a reason

 

[aesop081]

Then you would have fewer 836s. I joined RMS for a reason and that is to become one.....and who wants less clerks, they're always in demand for a reason

wow, another well thought out response....

thats it, i'm convinced !!

 

[Roy Harding]

Then you would have fewer 836s. I joined RMS for a reason and that is to become one.....and who wants less clerks, they're always in demand for a reason

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

A. Lincoln(?)  S. Clemens(?)

Whoever originally said it, you have removed all doubt.

Did you even READ this thread?


Roy

 

[PO2FinClk]

Whoever originally said it, you have removed all doubt.

I believe it was Mark Twain, but I could be mistaken.

 

[CorporalMajor]

Whoever originally said it, you have removed all doubt.

Did you even READ this thread?


Roy

Excuse me?  ???

First, I'm not a fool, and Ofc I read this thread.... Perhaps I was unclear, so let me reword it - the fact is that I'm told by many of my superiors and my dad who is in the know, that the trade is in very high demand. They said, "you'll never be unemployed, units are scrambling for clerks these days"

If RMS was to be a re-muster only trade you would have far less people joining because administration in the forces can be very SLOW and complicated as it is, which can really discourage people new to the army from joining.
Example: Freind of mine who's an OCdt actually switched units because the first's admin office was bewildering him that much. Same with someone who didn't even bother geting on BMQ or SQ for the same reason...she found something else to do for the summer.

Now of course it's up to them to get past such problems, but that girl could have potentially became a very useful solider. (I didn't even know the army was for me until a couple of months ago.) I don't know how big this problem is, but when it comes to the army dying for a given trade, more is more.

Given that, I just think it would be unecessary and impractical to make it a re-muster only trade because I am sure it would discourage people who know they could do THAt trade best from joining, like myself for example. Sure I could be ifnt, but I think I'd be a better clerk, with my education and its accomanying skills.. and that is why I joined as that trade.

 

[Roy Harding]

Excuse me?  ???

You're excused

First, I'm not a fool,

No one said you were

and Ofc I read this thread

What's "Ofc"?

.... Perhaps I was unclear,

Perhaps...

so let me reword it - the fact is that I'm told by many of my superiors and my dad who is in the know, that the trade is in very high demand. They said, "you'll never be unemployed, units are scrambling for clerks these days"

If RMS was to be a re-muster only trade you would have far less people joining because administration in the forces can be very SLOW and complicated as it is, which can really discourage people new to the army from joining.
Example: Freind of mine who's an OCdt actually switched units because the first's admin office was bewildering him that much. Same with someone who didn't even bother geting on BMQ or SQ for the same reason...she found something else to do for the summer.

You unwittingly prove my point.  Your OCDT friend (I assume he was/is Cbt Arms?) found the administrative system confusing.  This was, no doubt, compounded by the fact that the RMS sp was, IN ALL PROBABILITY, inexperienced with life as a Cbt Arms soldier - they didn't understand his confusion, or the pressures on him - all they knew was the "book way" of doing things.  Same goes for your friend who quit - the admin support simply didn't understand - their emphasis was on "administering" - NOT "soldiering".

Now of course it's up to them to get past such problems, but that girl could have potentially became a very useful solider. (I didn't even know the army was for me until a couple of months ago.) I don't know how big this problem is, but when it comes to the army dying for a given trade, more is more.

"more is more"??  Bull hockey.  Give me five clks who UNDERSTAND what soldiering is any day over ten who've never been outside their Orderly Room.  The first five know a few things (as well as the RMS knowledge they gained after remuster):

-  just how good they've got it

-  just how much pressure their Cbt Arms buddies are under - "I don't know WHY I'm here, Warrant - my Sergeant-Major just told me to report here, right bloody now!!"  (A true (if not verbatim) representation of conversations I've had with young Pte's more than once).

- just how much their Cbt Arms buddies DON'T know - which lack of knowledge can bite them badly.

- what it is to be "mission oriented".

Just to name a few that come immediately to mind.

Given that, I just think it would be unecessary and impractical to make it a re-muster only trade because I am sure it would discourage people who know they could do THAt trade best from joining, like myself for example. Sure I could be ifnt, but I think I'd be a better clerk, with my education and its accomanying skills.. and that is why I joined as that trade.

I didn't say remuster would be NECESSARY, just preferable.  You may well be good at Int - at the junior rank level the duties are amazingly similar to running a good CR.  Int (at least when I retired in '04 - might have changed since) was a remuster-in ONLY trade though - so that kind of weakens your argument, don't you think?  The point is not whether you can be a good clerk or not - the point is can you be a good SOLDIER.  By being a Cbt Arms soldier FIRST (and I mean chronologically, not just attitudinally), you become a better CSS soldier later.

Sorry - but 22 years of RMS/Adm experience in Cbt Arms units tells me that I'm right.  There are exceptions, naturally, but I always found that your average "retread" was worth two or three "direct entries".  This (my experience AND my conclusions) applies to Army units only - I have no experience or opinion on how the Navy or Air Force might maximize the benefit they get from their personnel (although I strongly suspect that previous experience as a Bosun might accrue the same benefits to the Navy that previous experience as a Cbt Arms soldier give to the Army).

I think you'll find other Sr RMS Clks here on the boards who agree with my point of view - there are a variety of threads which touch on the issue.

Regardless my opinion of how the trade should be staffed - good luck to you - ALL service is valuable and important.


Roy

 

[CorporalMajor]

Ofc = of course.

Your OCDT friend (I assume he was/is Cbt Arms?) found the administrative system confusing.  This was, no doubt, compounded by the fact that the RMS sp was, IN ALL PROBABILITY, inexperienced with life as a Cbt Arms soldier - they didn't understand his confusion, or the pressures on him - all they knew was the "book way" of doing things.  Same goes for your friend who quit - the admin support simply didn't understand - their emphasis was on "administering" - NOT "soldiering".

That's plausible, but as for the Ocdt's case ironically enough it was ADMIN problems that caused Ocdt to switch from this ifnt unit to arty. It was taking forever for one document to get from point A to point B, and he found it particularily trying because the recruiting centre and the ifnt unit itself are a 15 minutre walk away from one another.

The point is not whether you can be a good clerk or not - the point is can you be a good SOLDIER.  By being a Cbt Arms soldier FIRST (and I mean chronologically, not just attitudinally), you become a better CSS soldier later.

This I certainly agree with. I always try to improve there because I think I can be a much better soldier. If so many RMS Clks are "trade centric" then I think trg should include more soldiering activites. Apparently there's not much to the QL3 but the academic portion and whatever else all one-hooks have to learn, and even less PT than supply do.

I remember my Sgt beating the "Soldier first" mantra into my head, and I take it very seriously. I still manage to fare better in some recent long ruck hauls than many of my peers. But he's told me that many of today's svc pers in Afg are more fit, at least compared to those who balooned after MCpl. He told me, "those days where you see an obese sgt in supply are over" and for the sake of our army's success I hope that's true.

Sorry - but 22 years of RMS/Adm experience in Cbt Arms units tells me that I'm right.  There are exceptions, naturally, but I always found that your average "retread" was worth two or three "direct entries".  This (my experience AND my conclusions) applies to Army units only - I have no experience or opinion on how the Navy or Air Force might maximize the benefit they get from their personnel (although I strongly suspect that previous experience as a Bosun might accrue the same benefits to the Navy that previous experience as a Cbt Arms soldier give to the Army).

I think you'll find other Sr RMS Clks here on the boards who agree with my point of view - there are a variety of threads which touch on the issue.

Seen

Regardless my opinion of how the trade should be staffed - good luck to you - ALL service is valuable and important.

Thanks for good will and perspective

 

[Desert Fox]

Whoever originally said it, you have removed all doubt.

Did you even READ this thread?


Roy

Mr Roy, It was Ab.... well picked line thou!!!

As for the young r-e-s-p-e-c-t demanding clerks out there...

Respect is earned, and if you are a Pte(R) preaching about how powerful you are within your Svc Btn then you got a lot to learn before you will earn any respect on here or in your job.