5000 regular force over 5 years..... just a little question about that

[Lethbridge U]

In reading the 2005 budget (on the DND website) I noticed that they were going to be spending just over 3 billion to hire 5000 regular force and 3000 reservists over the period of 5 years. If you work that out it's like 1000 regular force required per year; I think that is about 3 or 4 times the current intake of candidates. So my question is, when do the flood gates open up for all these applicants? For example is there going to be a demand of say 180 infantry officers instead of the previously noted 60?
Anybody in the know about this? 

 

[George Wallace]

Officer Recruitment will probably remain at the same levels as it is now.  What will happen first is that the Training System will have to gear up for larger and more Courses of recruits.  It will take time to train instructors, do the standardization, and find the facilities to house this new influx.  Prior to the closing of Cornwallis, we operated two Recruit Schools and Three Military Universities.  Now we are down to one and one.

Gw

 

[Ghost]

http://www.cflrs.forces.gc.ca/english/us/about_e.asp

shouldn't that already be able to handle it with 6200 people a year

 

[Griswald DME]

Haven't they been promising "an additional 5000" for the past few years?   Hasn't happened yet and doubt it will happen this year, unfortunately.

DME

 

[ReadyAyeReady]

My question is, how long will it take the recuriting centres to process all these applicants...we already know that the recruiting system is abysmally slow...now with all these new spots opening up...god help us!

 

[patrick666]

Isn't there 5000 plus already waiting for weeks, months, years, to get in??? Hmmmmm

 

[ab136]

Amen!!!  Pat

 

[Gouki]

Amen to that as well.

But in all honesty, Martin promised it, Martin should be following through with it.

Which like most things, he isn't. I laughed when he talked about the CF and increasing its numbers, just because he's broken so many promises before.

In short ... don't expect to see anything like this till Harper gets in and when he does that's a whole other can of worms..

 

[kincanucks]

Since we have enrolled 4-5 thousand CLEAN, HEALTHY AND INTELLIGENT applicants each year for the last five years then I am sure we can enrol another thousand CLEAN, HEALTHY AND INTELLIGENT applicants but remember we will have to process three thousand UNCLEAN, UNHEALTHY AND STUPID applicants to get that one thousand.

 

[Shaynelle]

Since we have enrolled 4-5 thousand CLEAN, HEALTHY AND INTELLIGENT applicants each year for the last five years then I am sure we can enrol another thousand CLEAN, HEALTHY AND INTELLIGENT applicants but remember we will have to process three thousand UNCLEAN, UNHEALTHY AND STUPID applicants to get that one thousand.

wow, recruiter with a bee in his bonnet?

 

[Gouki]

A lot of recruiting bashing does go down here though (guilty as charged). I guess if someone was bashing something I do I'd get a bit riffed, no matter what the job may be.

 

[Bert]

From my understanding, there is no public document describing the formation or
specific make-up of this 5K unit.  For sure, as Kincanucks alluded to, it will not be
made up of raw recruits or members just completing trades training.  The force will
likely be made up members from various sections, units, bases, and wings in the
CF.  The new members/recruits will still go through their training and posted to their
units until they are deployable (individually, or as a section or unit).

 

[Kirkhill]

So kincanuck - are you suggesting that of the Canadian population, or is it just the standard of applicant that crosses your sightline, only 25% are capable of serving in the CF?  1000 sufficiently clean, bright and healthy to meet the standards.

To me that suggests the standards need reviewing or else your view of the applicants might need recalibrating.  Can't say that any salesman that I encountered, that believed that 3/4s of the people that walked through his door were unworthy of his product, would be likely to convert me into a customer.

Or perhaps its just that after having recommended 4 customers to your managers and discovered that only 1 was considered worthy that you are questioning the effort you have to "waste" on the other 3?

If it's the latter - is there a simpler way to help you screen applicants?

 

[kincanucks]

So kincanuck - are you suggesting that of the Canadian population, or is it just the standard of applicant that crosses your sightline, only 25% are capable of serving in the CF?   1000 sufficiently clean, bright and healthy to meet the standards.

To me that suggests the standards need reviewing or else your view of the applicants might need recalibrating.   Can't say that any salesman that I encountered, that believed that 3/4s of the people that walked through his door were unworthy of his product, would be likely to convert me into a customer.

Or perhaps its just that after having recommended 4 customers to your managers and discovered that only 1 was considered worthy that you are questioning the effort you have to "waste" on the other 3?

If it's the latter - is there a simpler way to help you screen applicants?

I am saying that through CFAT testing, drug screening, reliability checks and medical processing, it takes 3 applicants to produce one enrollee. There is nothing wrong with the standards, in fact they should be higher.

 

[Inch]

Kirkhill, if you think 1 out of 3 is a bad ratio, you should hear what the pilot numbers are like. I don't know how true they are since I never saw them in writing, but I was told once by a recruiter that it takes nearly 100 applicants to get one pilot trained to wings standard. The majority are eliminated right away by medical problems such as glasses, hearing, heart murmurs, among other things. None of which may be critical, but they're not acceptable for the pilot trade. The rest are eliminated at Aircrew selection or during one of the 3 phases of pilot training. The helicopter course after mine in Portage lost 4 of 7 students, they were less than 3 months from getting their wings.

Kincanucks may have some more updated numbers since the ones I stated above are about 5 years old.

 

[Gouki]

Yeah but pilots are one hell of a tall order .. not like some recruit or something

I see what you're saying and the point you're making just that it seems kind of like apples/oranges to compare regular recruit applicants to something as tough as the pilots got to go through to get their wings

 

[TCBF]

Man oh man, the stories I could tell....

  Some recruiters came through CFRS Cornwallis and toured the school every year.  They got a tour of a platoon barracks, and this time it was mine.  I lit into one of the recruiters (a Sgt from my Regt) and demanded to know why he kept sending me psychos.  He told me that an "activist" lawyer in Saint John, NB, would say to the judge " ...my client wants to straighten out in the Canadian Military.."  Hizzoner, who probably thought we were still using Bren Guns, would say "Fine idea!", and let the JD off.  The lawyer would then assist the process where required, by leaning on the recruiters and threatening political action.  To say that the recruiters who allowed themselves to be bullied in this manner were geldings unfit for military service is an understatement.  Anyway, we had to endure the social and intellectual scum of Saint John ( and believe me, that is saying something) being scraped off the streets and delivered into barracks 34-7, or whatever. This was 1984-86.

We don't need this.  Ninety per-cent of our time is spent administering two per-cent of our people.  We are NOT a social welfare agency, and we no longer have the robust military justice and administrative procedures used by modern conscript armies to keep their animals in line (jail- then release).

I was smarter when I was a Pl Comd in St. Jean.  I would phone the recruiter up directly and say "You sent me a "three" didn't you?" 

"Uh, yeah, I did, how do you know he is a three?"

"Because I read your manual!"

  Stop sending us trash, we have a fifty per-cent pass rate here, do you know how much that costs the taxpayers?

That was in 1996

Tom

 

[patrick666]

I, personally, think the standards are too high and that is one of the root causes of all this whole CFRC juggling act. I know it is a serious profession and requires serious people. However, I do not think we need super healthy, intelligent, hardworking, people to be recruited - look at the federal government that employs them - because it is their duty to improve themselves through BMQs and SQs and as they soldier on, they will learn. I think most recruits know what is expected of them and accept that. Every bag of lips there are assholes, though. If we supposedly have some of best military training in the world, then let us be trained. 

*shrugs* not trying to start an argument or derail this thread, but that's my opinion.

For the 5000 people to be recruited, I hope I'm one. =)

Cheers

Patrick

 

[Love793]

To add to what Kincanuck has said, here's an example of the 3 to 1 ratio.  We've placed ads on the HRDC site, for 6 trades here in Windsor (Reserve Jobs), we've received over 120 resumes, walk ins and other email/phone enquiries.  From that after weeding out initially about 20 (no citizenship, criminal records or lacking gr 10), we're left with about 100 "Contacts", of that we'll probably get 30+ applicants.  Of the thirty plus applicants, after all the stages of recruiting, we might get 10 new soldiers.

 

[Gouki]

I don't think the standards are too high really..

I myself, currently, don't stand a snowballs chance in hell at applying Officer. As it is, I hardly made the grade for NCM.

I'm not stupid by any means or lazy or whatever ... I just did poorly in high school. Everybody makes mistakes and everybody pays for them. I'm just glad that despite all the BS that's happened so far, the military is giving me the chance to make things better.

In short, they are the only people willing to give me that shot... so .. I'm quite fine with the standards as the way they are now (at least for education..). I do think the physical fitness test could be a little bit more ... rigorous.. I felt like a deranged circus freak the way I was going up and down those steps to that crazy music. It wasn't exactly the most challenging thing I've done, hell I started laughing halfway through it and the PSP staff member couldn't help it and laughed as well.