3RCR at Ft Bliss

[Jarnhamar]

You disagree that soldiers heading to Afghanistan would benefit more from training (both physically and equipment wise) in an area with sand, snakes, sun,  similar altitude at 4000 feet above sea level, mock villages, and mountains over sending them to an environment that they are both accustomed too and will not be fighting in?

Me I found that the guys I was working with who have not deployed before learned a lot about their physical performance at higher altitudes, effects it had on weapons such as too much CLP on a rifle causing the dust to coagulate, vehicles needing the air filter cleaned more etc..

I realize you were being sarcastic, no I don't think we should train at the tarnak farms to "train as we fight" but I think the texas/new mexican desert is a much better learning enviroment than wainwright.

 

[Mortar guy]

Yes I was being sarcastic and yes I disagree that Fort Bliss equaled "training as we fight". I take it you weren't on the ex?

Sure the mountains looked a bit like Afghanistan from a distance (more like around Kabul than the more eroded mountains in Kandahar). However, the terrain had more vegetation and lacked the built up areas, canals, grape fields and roads that you'd see in Panjwayi/Zhari/Arghandab. Sure Ft Bliss is at 4,000 feet but we didn't notice any adverse effects on our soldiers and we were humping up the mountains for 10 days at a time. Fit soldiers are fit soldiers, regardless of the altitude. Sure it was dusty but none of my 83 soldiers needed to be told to put less CLP on their weapons as they all figured that out on their own. Oh and we only saw a handful of snakes and spiders as it was way too cold for most creepy crawlies.

Now, did we need to spend $30 million to find out that 4,000 feet has a slight impact on our PT and that dust jams weapons? I don't think so.

Furthermore, the FIBUA sites in Bliss were almost all junk (dilapidated one-room plywood buildings) and the live-fire was no better than what we could do and have done in Wainwright (talk to 1-08 guys about their ranges). Wainwright has much better OPFOR and CIB players as well as WES that go much further towards allowing us to train as we fight than dust and altitude. On top of that is the fact that US rge control restrictions severely limited what we could do and to me that all adds up to $30 million dollars wasted.

"Train as you fight" doesn't mean the superficial things like scenery, it means training with the enablers (CAS, arty, engrs, CIMIC, HUMINT, etc.) in a battlespace with all the complexities you'll see in Afghanistan. Dust and altitude are just a couple of those complexities and not the most important in my mind.

MG

 

[geo]

Using Ft Bliss permitted th 3/07 troops to train for the Afghan mission while Canadian alternatives were under a heap of snow....
WRT the quality of FIBUA and live fire facilities down in TX, with the relocation of the US 1st Armd div to Ft Bliss, I wager that the quality of facilities will improve considerably over the coming years.... though their availability to Cdn troops is another question.....

From a personal point of view, I have found that there are more restrictions on our own ranges than those I have used down south

 

[Jarnhamar]

Damn MG. Our guys have the PT down pat and the weapons cleaning in adverse conditions. We just have to cover don't get in firefights with each other with tasers and we'll be set

If your guys didn't notice any difficulty with the altitude than that's awesome. I'm jealous, running around camp was rough. Same with humping up a few of the hills, I didn't spend 10 days doing it though. Most of our guys noticed it for sure.
Good points though I still stick by mine. Having trained for Afghanistan in wainwright on 0306 and then just doing this fort bliss ex I personally have to say that I got MUCH more out of going to Texas. That of course will probably vary with each soldiers position.

I guess that new non-shitty miles gear they have out west probably makes a world of difference too.
Texas DID seem like a huge operation for what amounted to a 4 day ex.

 

[Franko]

Texas DID seem like a huge operation for what amounted to a 4 day ex.

For some perhaps. The entire ex was designed around combat team live fire. If your unit didn't need to participate then I guess it was a 4 day ex.

For the majority that is not the case. Some of us only saw the camp when clearing in and after ENDEX was declared.

Regards

 

[X-mo-1979]

I got there on the 22 of jan...
4 day ex my butt.

 

[Yeoman]

mortar guy; did your troops get a chance to use the 360 degree kill houses?
I know at least a few did. I want to say the battle group, but I don't know if N Coy did.
speaking of that; the heck is 2RCR doing?!? I didn't even know they were in Bliss, let alone going over till I got back from Bliss. *shrugs*
I found as a driver how to work with more then just the LAV's. The bisons, the RG's, the tanks, the other stuff. I've always powerpointed but never had done all that with everything allocated together at the same time. doing convoys with actual scenarios occuring. having to actually pratice towing vehicles around while 'under contact'
sure wasn't a four day ex to me. four days is probably all I spent in camp. okay maybe five or six.

 

[brihard]

Hey, I remember that IED...

 

[Jarnhamar]

Poor choice of words  ;D

 

[dan005e]

Yeoman,

Re:2RCR

Golf Coy didnt go with the rest of 2RCR on 1-07.

Edit: took part of my answer off, might be OPSEC. Better safe then sorry i think, Yeoman check your PM's 

 

[geo]

Mortarguy,
As I indicated, the TF3/07 had snow to contend with during their workup training.  I don't think Wainwright was available at the time we were looking to do it so, in some respect, Ft Bliss was one of our few options.

I know all about restrictive range control regulations - Canadian bases inpose volumes of restrictions ... some make sense, some don't.  WRT Ft Bliss, the arrival of a permanent US Armoured division on premisses should create an environment where reasonnable rules and regulations will be worked out - over time.

 

[deedster]

On behalf of limey11:
The best thing about Fort Bliss was no February in Canada!  ;D

 

[Sythen]

Wasn't like Feb in Canada, but still snowed on us in the mountains :/

Nothing like waking up for an OP and being near buried in the stuff...

 

[PB]

It was good training for the teams, they got a good taste of digging in the roads, as opposed tasks that would have been sitting on the top of frozen ground in Wayne, or maybe buried in the snow...

 

[patt]

anyone know what discovery channel was there for? noticed them a few times.

 

[brihard]

anyone know what discovery channel was there for? noticed them a few times.

I asked one of them. They were following around a platoon from Mike, if I recall correctly.

TDV was there as well, they're doing an episode on 33 brigade, and more specifically on those of us going on tour.

 

[aesop081]

anyone know what discovery channel was there for?

Looking for guys who "aint nothing but mammals " ?

 

[Yeoman]

anyone know what discovery channel was there for? noticed them a few times.

yep, following one of the platoons around from Mike Coy. they'll be doing a show in a few months on us studs being studs............I think.
all I know is that, they've learnt to never to have a camera around me, heh.

 

[RCR Grunt]

yep, following one of the platoons around from Mike Coy. they'll be doing a show in a few months on us studs being studs............I think.
all I know is that, they've learnt to never to have a camera around me, heh.

LAVBORNE!!

 

[vonGarvin]

Just a random photo from Bliss