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~200 Leopard 2A7+ for Saudi Arabia

ironduke57

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I just noticed that noone post this so fare here:

Saudi in deal to buy German tanks - security sources
* Saudi Arabia to buy 200 German tanks

* Deal valued at several billion euros

* German opposition says deal violates export rules

* Germany declines to confirm deal

By Amena Bakr and Eric Kelsey

RIYADH/BERLIN, July 4 (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia is buying hundreds of tanks from Germany, Saudi security sources said, in a multi-billion euro deal that German opposition lawmakers say contravenes the country's export guidelines for military hardware.

The oil-rich Gulf state has bought 44 Leopard tanks in the first phase of the deal for a total of 200 tanks in coming months, the sources said.
...
- http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/04/saudi-germany-tanks-idUSLDE76317120110704

And some reactions here:

German Politicians Angered Over Saudi Tank Sale
BERLIN - German opposition parties and even some ruling coalition members were up in arms July 5 over reports that the government wants to overturn its export rules and sell hundreds of tanks to Saudi Arabia.

According to news reports, the German government is planning to sell 200 Leopard-2s, with one variant shown above, to Saudi Arabia. (File photo / Agence France-Presse) This followed news reports that Saudi Arabia is about to buy 200 Leopard-2s, Germany's main battle tank, which is also produced under license in Spain.

Germany, which has declined for more than 20 years to sell such heavy weapons to Saudi Arabia because of concerns over human rights and fears for Israel's security, refused to confirm the report.

But the Suddeutsche Zeitung (SZ) paper reported the deal is already done and that both Israel and the U.S. signed off before the final decision was made June 27.

...
- http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=7010886&c=MID&s=LAN

Regards,
ironduke57
 
Twice as deadly: Saudi Arabia aims at 10 bln euro tank deal with Germany
Saudi Arabia wants to buy between 600 and 800 Leopard II main battle tanks from Germany, at least twice more than what was previously reported, a German newspaper says. The future deal is estimated to worth around 10 billion euros.

A German-Saudi contract for purchase of some 300 brand new modern tanks was on the table since at least last year. Hover the Gulf monarchy wants more hardware, Bild newspaper reports.

There is still resistance in the German federal government to selling military hardware to Saudis. Foreign Ministry and Defense Ministry both oppose it due to security and human rights considerations.

The Economy Ministry advocates the deal, which would give a boost to domestic defense producers Krauss-Maffei Wegman and Rheinmetall, especially as the demand for armor from the German army shrinks with its ongoing restructuring.

The initial contract for 300 tanks is already ready for signing, but still requires consent from a council of eight German ministers and the Federal Chancellor, who has to approve any export of military technology from the country. So far Germany was reluctant to sell heavy arms to the Gulf nations.

Bild says Spanish firm General Dynamic/Santa Barbara would produce the tanks under a license, if the deal is finally given the green light. Saudis would like to have it sealed before the holy month of Ramadan starts on July 20.

The first reports on a possible sell of hundreds of state-of-art German Leopard 2A7+ tanks surfaced in July 2011. The news caused criticism by rights groups and opposition politicians in Germany, who were discontent that German arms would be supplied to a country with poor human rights record. They said Saudi Arabia may the tanks, which are tailored for desert and urban warfare, to quash domestic dissent.

When mass pro-democratic protests erupted in Bahrain last year, Saudi Arabia sent its troops to help local security forces in a crackdown on the Bahraini opposition. The two monarchies are currently considering forming a closer political alliance.
- http://www.rt.com/news/german-tanks-saudi-arabia-010/

Sadly if it comes through they will probably build in Spain and not here, but at least KMW should get a big sum from the build license. Maybe enough to kick start the development for a successor for the Leo2 as it looks like that there are talks with the french about joint development of a new MBT. (BTDTGTTS)

Regards,
ironduke57
 
ironduke57 said:
Twice as deadly: Saudi Arabia aims at 10 bln euro tank deal with Germany- http://www.rt.com/news/german-tanks-saudi-arabia-010/

Sadly if it comes through they will probably build in Spain and not here, but at least KMW should get a big sum from the build license. Maybe enough to kick start the development for a successor for the Leo2 as it looks like that there are talks with the french about joint development of a new MBT. (BTDTGTTS)

Regards,
ironduke57
MBT 70 II? 

What on earth does Saudi Arabia need ~700 Main Battle Tanks of the type that the Leopard 2A7 represents?  Assume 14 per tank company, 3 companies per tank battalion, therefore assume 44 tanks per tank battalion, heck, call it 50.  14 tank battalions. 

Does this mean we need to give Israel more AT missiles?
 
Technoviking said:
Does this mean we need to give Israel more AT missiles?

Or station more Apache/A-10's in the area lol
 
Technoviking said:
MBT 70 II?
Nah. Wrong project. Standard Panzer II or Europa Panzer II would be more fitting.

Technoviking said:
What on earth does Saudi Arabia need ~700 Main Battle Tanks of the type that the Leopard 2A7 represents?  Assume 14 per tank company, 3 companies per tank battalion, therefore assume 44 tanks per tank battalion, heck, call it 50.  14 tank battalions. ...
Simple answer. PANZER VOR!!! :panzer: ;D

Regards,
ironduke57
 
Technoviking said:
MBT 70 II? 

What on earth does Saudi Arabia need ~700 Main Battle Tanks of the type that the Leopard 2A7 represents?  Assume 14 per tank company, 3 companies per tank battalion, therefore assume 44 tanks per tank battalion, heck, call it 50.  14 tank battalions. 

Does this mean we need to give Israel more AT missiles?

Read a post on tanknet that they would likley replace all of the M60s and AMX-30's. Also unlikley the deal will go through for political reasons in Saudi and Germany.
 
Selling western armour technology, to a shady country like the kingdom doesnt make sence to me.
 
14 tank battalions is about right for the national army (officered by the middle class and manned by pak nationals mainly), there is another 6 or so in the National Guard (officered by the princes and manned on a tribal basis) which have M1s I think.  The national army has 4 armoured brigades and 8 mech.  The guard has 8 brigades with combined arms battalions.  Interestingly, the guard has alot of LAV variants.  Politically, the guard is a counter balance to the army should the people rebel and the army is a counter balance to the guard should the princes rebel.  Got to love despotism, very well balanced, like steak and bran flakes!
 
fraserdw said:
14 tank battalions is about right for the national army (officered by the middle class and manned by pak nationals mainly), there is another 6 or so in the National Guard (officered by the princes and manned on a tribal basis) which have M1s I think.  The national army has 4 armoured brigades and 8 mech.  The guard has 8 brigades with combined arms battalions. Interestingly, the guard has alot of LAV variants.  Politically, the guard is a counter balance to the army should the people rebel and the army is a counter balance to the guard should the princes rebel.  Got to love despotism, very well balanced, like steak and bran flakes!

Including the ones with coloured TV, refrigerators, wall to wall carpeting, etc. There's some pretty fancy LAV motorhomes included in those variants  ;)
 
Yes, I heard that, but there are about 300 people in the guard with the title "Prince".  Each is in possession of some share of the national oil wealth, so I bet!
 
Der Spiegel announced that Saudi Arabia has also expressed interest in some hundred BOXERs.

- http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/saudi-arabien-will-hunderte-boxer-panzer-kaufen-a-870459.html (German)
- http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/02/us-germany-saudi-arms-idUSBRE8B109P20121202 (EN)

Regards,
ironduke57
 
Technoviking said:
MBT 70 II? 

What on earth does Saudi Arabia need ~700 Main Battle Tanks of the type that the Leopard 2A7 represents?  Assume 14 per tank company, 3 companies per tank battalion, therefore assume 44 tanks per tank battalion, heck, call it 50.  14 tank battalions. 

Does this mean we need to give Israel more AT missiles?

I think it's just a tank rich environment.

Egypt has about 1,100 Abrams
Syria had about 5000 T-72, T-62 and T-55's
Israel has around 1500 Merkava's
Iran has a lot of tanks.

If anything, the Saudis have slightly less tanks than their neighbours
 
That part of the world seems to favour the MBT as it's main mayhem delivery system.
 
Kat Stevens said:
That part of the world seems to favour the MBT as it's main mayhem delivery system.

It certainly is tank country, and the region's history in the past half century is rife with conventional mechanized land battles. Can't fault 'em having a bit of a Panzer fetish.
 
Not to mention that they look intimidating to the masses when they show up at the edge of the city square to put down a protest.
 
cupper said:
Not to mention that they look intimidating to the masses when they show up at the edge of the city square to put down a protest.

I wasn't thinking along those lines- but yes, you're probably spot on with that too.
 
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