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13 hours: the secret soldiers of Benghazi

J

jollyjacktar

Guest
Michael Bay movie about the shyte show at Benghazi where the US Ambassador was killed along with others on Sept 11, 2012.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4172430/?ref_=nv_sr_1

Just opened today.  I went to an evening showing.  It's a very good movie despite what the CBC movie critic had to say about it.  He can go pound sand or whatever device he likes.  The theatre was mostly full so I ended up in the shitty seats way forward.  Don't recommend those ones. 
 
jollyjacktar said:
Michael Bay movie about the shyte show at Benghazi where the US Ambassador was killed along with others on Sept 11, 2012.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4172430/?ref_=nv_sr_1

Just opened today.  I went to an evening showing.  It's a very good movie despite what the CBC movie critic had to say about it.  He can go pound sand or whatever device he likes.  The theatre was mostly full so I ended up in the shitty seats way forward.  Don't recommend those ones.

Whats the story with Hillary Clinton and her involvement? She knew they were going to get hit but didn't do anything to stop it?
 
Jarnhamar said:
Whats the story with Hillary Clinton and her involvement? She knew they were going to get hit but didn't do anything to stop it?

Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State at the time. The allegations (that have haunted her for years) are threefold: that State completely ignored warnings from the field and under-resourced the protection of an American ambassador, that after the ambassador was killed she publicly briefed a description of the events that had little relation to what actually happened on the ground, and that she covered up points one and two.

The facts are a little wonky -- it looks like, yes, Hillary Clinton briefed things at the time that weren't accurate, but she (and her department) probably didn't have an actual understanding of what the hell happened until weeks, maybe months, after the event. And the media, public and congress needed answers "RIGHT NOW", so I suspect they kind of winged it. Suffice it to say that the entire event was a complete clusterfuck. I don't think that special operators joined JSOC with the intent to steal a corpse, for example, but that's exactly what they had to do.
 
Don't forget that the movie was based on the book written with the three Special Operators who survived. They were on set during production almost 100% of the time.

For those who get FOX News, on Monday 18 Jan, Megan Kelly Show, these three fellows will be on for a special including behind the scenes look at the movie production. You should be able to get it on line after if you don't get that channel.

Reminder, posted 26 Jan 14: http://army.ca/forums/threads/107446.250.html

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/011414-686352-defense-officials-briefed-obama-on-terrorist-attack.htm?ven=rss

Excerpts:
Quote
........transcripts of congressional testimony by military leaders confirm that President Obama knew Benghazi was a terrorist attack before he went to bed to rest for a Las Vegas fundraising trip.

Fox News reporter James Rosen examined 450 pages of declassified testimony given by senior Pentagon officials in closed-door hearings held last year by Congress. In those hearings, Gen. Carter Ham, who at the time headed Africom, the Defense Department combat command with jurisdiction over Libya, testified that he learned about the assault on the consulate compound within 15 minutes of its start, at 9:42 p.m. Libya time, from the Africom Command Center.

Ham said he immediately contacted Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Martin Dempsey to say he was coming down the hall at the Pentagon to meet with him.

"I told him what I knew. We immediately walked upstairs to meet with Secretary Panetta," Ham testified, adding "they had the basic information as they headed across for the meeting at the White House."

Ham responded that "there was some preliminary discussion about, you know, maybe there was a demonstration. But I think at the command, I personally and I think the command very quickly got to the point that this was not a demonstration, this was a terrorist attack" and that was the "nature of the conversation" Ham had with Panetta and Dempsey moments before their 30-minute meeting with President Obama.

This confirms Panetta's testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee in February of last year that it was he who told the president "there was an apparent attack going on in Benghazi."

This all happened within 30 minutes of the commencement of the attack: Ham, who was in Washington, walking down the hall, Panetta and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs meeting with the President.

Apparently President Obama did not attend this meeting for very long, but nobody knows where he went etc.



During the repat ceremony (televised) at Dover AFB, Hillary blamed the video as the cause. Inappropriate don't you think?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2203298/Victims-Benghazi-massacre-return-home-Obama-Clinton-pay-tribute.html

She then spoke personally, face to face, to the immediate relatives of the four stating the US will get those responsible.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2203298/Victims-Benghazi-massacre-return-home-Obama-Clinton-pay-tribute.html

Quote
'Their sacrifice will never be forgotten. We will bring to justice those who took them from us,' said  President Barack Obama during his speech in front of the dead men's family. 'Chris Stevens was everything America could want in an ambassador,' he added.

Note Ambassador Chris Stevens was one of Obama's guys, and Obama hung him out to dry.

 
Rifleman62 said:
Don't forget that the movie was based on the book written with the three Special Operators who survived. They were on set during production almost 100% of the time.

They were contractors
 
The local CIA Chief disputes the portrayal of himself and other staff, and says the stand down order was never given. This has been backed up by several of the congressional investigations that were carried out.

Former CIA chief in Benghazi challenges the story line of the new movie ‘13 Hours’

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/former-cia-chief-in-benghazi-challenges-film-version-of-2012-attack/2016/01/15/9cf2defc-baf7-11e5-b682-4bb4dd403c7d_story.html

It is the most fateful moment in a movie that purports to present a searingly accurate account of the 2012 attacks that left four Americans dead in Benghazi, Libya: a scene in which the highest-ranking CIA operative at a secret agency compound orders his security team to “stand down” rather than rush off to rescue U.S. diplomats under siege less than a mile away.

According to the officer in charge of the CIA’s Benghazi base that night, the scene in the movie is entirely untrue.

“There never was a stand-down order,” said the base chief known as Bob, speaking publicly for the first time. “At no time did I ever second-guess that the team would depart.”

Nor, he said, did he say anything that could be “interpreted as equivalent” to an order to stand down.

In a lengthy interview with reporters from The Washington Post, Bob provided new details about the attacks and his interactions with J. Christopher Stevens, the U.S. ambassador to Libya who perished in them.

The account from the CIA base chief adds a critical and previously missing voice to the public record on Benghazi, an attack that even three years later remains so politically charged that Sen. Ted Cruz (Tex.), a Republican presidential candidate, made it the center of his closing remarks during this week’s GOP debate.

The question of whether someone issued a “stand down” has loomed over Benghazi since the immediate aftermath of the attacks. The initial speculation centered mainly on whether an official in Washington, including then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, had impeded rescue attempts — an allegation rejected by a series of congressional inquiries. A 2014 House Intelligence Committee report found “no evidence that there was either a stand down order or a denial of available air support.”

Bob agreed to talk on the condition that his last name not be used because even though he has retired, his cover has not been lifted. “I thought I would regret it if I didn’t,” he said about finally speaking out. “So much of this information has been wrong.”

The movie, “13 Hours: The Secret Soldiers of Benghazi,” is based on a book co-written by U.S. contractors hired to protect the CIA base in Benghazi. Bob said he was familiar with the contents of the book but had not seen the movie, which opened Friday. Scenes from the film were described to him by a Post reporter.

The book and film blame Bob for blocking the departure of security operators until it was too late. The author of the book, Mitchell Zuckoff, said in a telephone interview that he stands by the depiction and that it is based on first-hand accounts.

“I think the evidence is extremely strong that the guys’ account is far more credible” than that of the CIA chief, Zuckoff said. He said he made multiple requests through the CIA to speak with Bob but that those requests were denied.

Zuckoff said he had numerous conversations with the CIA office of public affairs about the project, but officials said those talks came only after a draft of the book was finished and focused on whether it disclosed classified material that contractors were obligated to protect. The agency also met with the director of the film, Michael Bay, and cited a list of concerns about the contents of the book and movie script, officials said.

The book publishers bypassed the CIA clearance process typically required for works by current or former employees and contractors. Zuckoff said that was in part because the agency did not want the authors to attach their real names to the book, and that doing so would have undermined its credibility.

The book and movie render an unflattering portrait of the CIA and Bob, a former Army medic who spent 32 years with the agency.

“No one will mistake this movie for a documentary,” CIA spokesman Ryan Trapani said. “It’s a distortion of the events and people who served in Benghazi that night. It’s shameful that, in order to highlight the heroism of some, those responsible for the movie felt the need to denigrate the courage of other Americans who served in harm’s way.”

Libya wasn’t Bob’s first war zone. The former veteran case officer, now in his early 60s, spent time in Central America, Iraq and Afghanistan as a clandestine case officer assigned to the Latin America and Near East divisions.

A rumpled figure with short gray whiskers on his face, Bob said he arrived in Benghazi as base chief in December 2011. Under his command were the security team, known inside the agency as the Global Response Staff, as well as contract case officers with military experience and other U.S. personnel.

The book accuses Bob of treating the GRS contractors like “Wal-Mart security guards.” He said that is a “distortion,” describing the security team as highly accomplished. “These guys were heroes,” he said.

Bob met with Stevens on Sept. 10, 2012, when the CIA briefed the ambassador at the diplomatic facility shortly after his arrival from Tripoli. “We did try to convey the seriousness of the terrorism environment in eastern Libya,” he said.

Although there was no specific threat information against Stevens, Bob said he was already familiar with two men later implicated in the assaults on U.S. facilities: Ahmed Abu Khattala, who was charged with plotting the attacks and has been brought to the United States to stand trial, and Sufian bin Qumu, a former detainee at Guantanamo Bay who remains in Libya.

Bob said he first heard gunfire about 9:42 p.m. and suspected immediately that the diplomatic compound was under attack. The handful of U.S. diplomatic security personnel there also alerted the base and the U.S. Embassy in Tripoli.

Bob said he began calling Libyan groups and making an effort to “help get eyes up,” a reference to surveillance drones that were directed toward the compound. He said the base immediately “went into collect mode to try to figure out what was happening to the ambassador” and said Stevens’s rescue was always a priority.

According to the book and the movie, the security contractors assembled their weapons and jumped into vehicles to begin a rescue mission. Bob, they said, ordered them to wait.

Bob acknowledged that he was “concerned about an ambush” and that a departure by the security team would have “left our base more vulnerable to attack.” But, he said, “there was never any question that there was going to be a rescue mission” and no instruction by him to hold off.

Instead, Bob said he spent much of the immediate period after the attack began, about 20 minutes, standing beside the leader of the GRS team — who still works at the CIA — scrambling to enlist local security teams.

One of the things he wanted was a gun truck and support. “Technicals,” Bob said. The militias they contacted were evasive. One offered to shelter the U.S. personnel at a nearby militia compound, Bob said, while others “didn’t necessarily want to help us, and some just didn’t know what to do.”

When the team leader realized reinforcements weren’t coming, “he left” with the contractors. “If there was any delay, it was a matter of minutes. It took a good 15 to 17 minutes just to get ready,” Bob said.

About 10:03 p.m., according to a congressional timeline, the CIA security contractors left for the diplomatic compound. More than 40 minutes later, after parking some distance away and approaching on foot with weapons drawn, they arrived at the facility. Stevens was missing, and Sean Smith, a State Department communications expert, was dead from smoke inhalation inside the diplomatic villa. The attackers were gone.

A second CIA officer at Benghazi that evening backed Bob’s account. In an email provided to The Post, the officer said that “when asked if the security team could respond to the requests for assistance at the special mission compound by the security team leader, the chief of base responded with one word: ‘Absolutely.’ ”

In an email, Zuckoff said that two of the CIA security contractors “heard Bob say” stand down. He added that the base chief’s account should “be seen through the lens of hindsight. It must be terrible for him to live with the fact that he delayed the departure, knowing that the deaths [of Stevens and Smith] were caused by smoke inhalation, which by definition is a function of time.”

Other former CIA officers with no direct knowledge of the case but with experience in war zones chafed at such second-guessing and said seeking reinforcements was the right course. “Did he lose 20 minutes? Probably,” said one former senior agency official. “But that was probably the right solution.”

Eventually, all of the Americans fled the compound and headed back to the CIA base.

“A good part of the night was trying to find out where the ambassador was and what had happened to him,” Bob said.

The CIA eventually learned that Libyans had located Stevens’s body and taken it to a hospital.

The other major controversy surrounding Benghazi has focused on how the attack on the diplomatic compound was initially portrayed by the White House as a violent protest rather than a terrorist attack.

Bob said there was “some reporting” even in the midst of the attacks that a terrorist group known as Ansar al-Sharia was involved, but he said he played no role in shaping White House talking points about the attacks that came under harsh criticism.

Bob said he took only one call that evening from CIA headquarters and that it lasted two minutes. “I just cut it short,” he said. He declined to comment on continued political fighting in Washington over the attack.

The following day, about 5:15 a.m., the CIA base came under mortar fire, and two GRS operators, Glen Doherty and Tyrone Woods, were killed.

The Americans finally evacuated the CIA base at dawn, escorted by a Libyan militia convoy to the airport. Bob said they destroyed the base’s computer hard drives before they left.

The movie shows Bob wanting to stay behind to collect intelligence and depicts one of the security contractors asking, “For what, so more guys like [the two contractors killed] have to save your ass again?”

“That never happened,” Bob said. Eyebrows raised, he asked, “I was going to stay behind by myself?”

While the CIA security operators who had been so dismissive of Bob left the country, the base chief stayed in Libya, relocating to Tripoli.

“We were there to collect and find out who had attacked us,” he said.

Bob said he also returned to the CIA base in Benghazi weeks later.

“I remember every second of it,” he said. “We had lost two brave Americans on the roof at that facility. It was difficult.”
 
You are correct PPCLI Guy, they were contractors: ex USMC, SEAL, Army etc. I knew that but typed without brain in gear. Are you sure you are not The RCR Guy incognito? "Never Pass A Fault"



Well cupper the former CIA chief should have sued when the book came out a year ago, and for sure, sue now as millions will see him on screen saying 'Stand Down!" Also sue FOX news as the story has been told on a 1 hour special repeatably and many interviews. He will gain millions of dollars if he is telling the truth and he did not give the orders.
 
Rifleman62 said:
Well cupper the former CIA chief should have sued when the book came out a year ago, and for sure, sue now as millions will see him on screen saying 'Stand Down!" Also sue FOX news as the story has been told on a 1 hour special repeatably and many interviews. He will gain millions of dollars if he is telling the truth and he did not give the orders.

Those thoughts went through my head as well.  If he is being slandered and libelled, as he claims, then why is it not in court?  I am sure the movie types would have done some due diligence as well as I am sure they don't need the headache of litigation and possibly losing in court with all that entails.
 
I suspect that there would be a couple of problems with launching a legal suit.

First his former employer did carry out a vetting of the book, which was admittedly limited to checking on presence of classified information. This in and of itself doesn't make the information in the book accurate or should it be construed as the CIA saying it is.

Secondly, the same issue of classified information might be withheld which could be necessary to show that what was portrayed / written was false.

And with the movie, the fall back would be that it was "BASED" on real events, and we know that there is that thing called artistic license.

But what does play in his favour is that there were several congressional investigations lead by the GOP that showed there was never a stand down order given. 
 
Sure.

I don't know about several, but one GOP led committee (House Int).

The main thrust is House Select Committee on Benghazi which continues:

https://benghazi.house.gov/
 
To be realistic, anything coming out of Hollywood needs to be taken with a salt mine.

Same with whatever spills from inside the Beltway.

People have axes to grind, or want to play up roles so they can cash in.

I wouldn't be surprised if the CIA guy has his own book deal going, and this is just a pre publication PR effort.
 
Rifleman62 said:
You are correct PPCLI Guy ... Are you sure you are not The RCR Guy incognito?
Oh man, that hurt way over here.    ;D
 
Jarnhamar said:
Whats the story with Hillary Clinton and her involvement? She knew they were going to get hit but didn't do anything to stop it?

In the interviews I viewed of the three contractors, they all claim that it was contractor John "Tig" Tiegen who the Chief of Base told to stand down.  But, in the movie, it is Ty Woods who is told to stand down.  Based on that, I have a hard time believing the movie was meant to tell the contractor's story. 

 
Rifleman62 said:
Don't forget that the movie was based on the book written with the three Special Operators who survived. They were on set during production almost 100% of the time.

For those who get FOX News, on Monday 18 Jan, Megan Kelly Show, these three fellows will be on for a special including behind the scenes look at the movie production. You should be able to get it on line after if you don't get that channel.

Reminder, posted 26 Jan 14: http://army.ca/forums/threads/107446.250.html

Bravo Two Zero was a book and a movie too.

They took some 'truth liberties' as well, it appears.
 
I read the book last month on vacation, found it very good.  Plenty of maps diagrams etc so you can follow the action/firefights etc.

Based on that went and caught the movie this week. Overall not bad,  pretty clsoe to the book with some changes for "dramatic effect." They apparently built replicas of both compounds in Malta  and they looked almost identical to the pictures  in the book of the various buildings etc. Well cast as well I though and if you watch any Showtime (Billions) , Starz ( Black Sails) and/or the Office you'll see more than a few familiar faces.
 
Danjanou said:
I read the book last month on vacation, found it very good.  Plenty of maps diagrams etc so you can follow the action/firefights etc.

Based on that went and caught the movie this week. Overall not bad,  pretty clsoe to the book with some changes for "dramatic effect." They apparently built replicas of both compounds in Malta  and they looked almost identical to the pictures  in the book of the various buildings etc. Well cast as well I though and if you watch any Showtime (Billions) , Starz ( Black Sails) and/or the Office you'll see more than a few familiar faces.

Do you believe John "Tig" Tiegen's claim that the Chief of Base told him to "stand down?"  I am skeptical that the Chief actually used that term, and I suspect that if he actually did use the term, he was telling Tiegen to "shut his pie hole", get back to the mission vehicles and wait for orders.  I have little doubt that Tiegen understood that the Chief was not ordering the rescue mission terminated. 
 
Danjanou said:
I read the book last month on vacation, found it very good.  Plenty of maps diagrams etc so you can follow the action/firefights etc.

Based on that went and caught the movie this week. Overall not bad,  pretty clsoe to the book with some changes for "dramatic effect." They apparently built replicas of both compounds in Malta  and they looked almost identical to the pictures  in the book of the various buildings etc. Well cast as well I though and if you watch any Showtime (Billions) , Starz ( Black Sails) and/or the Office you'll see more than a few familiar faces.

Read the book this week and enjoyed it as well, in particular the level of detail and technical descriptions.

Planning to go and see the movie this weekend
 
ParaTrooperFred said:
Do you believe John "Tig" Tiegen's claim that the Chief of Base told him to "stand down?"  I am skeptical that the Chief actually used that term, and I suspect that if he actually did use the term, he was telling Tiegen to "shut his pie hole", get back to the mission vehicles and wait for orders.  I have little doubt that Tiegen understood that the Chief was not ordering the rescue mission terminated.

Hard to say, one of the things I did read (in a movie review?) is that the whole compound was covered by secutrity cameras and the video record does show the team  ready to go, then getting out of their vehicles while what appears to be an argument enuses between the chief and a contrator. tehre follows a whole series fo on the bus off thebus for about 20 minutes which if I remember was the time period of the delay in mounting the resuce mission.  while the cameras can't/don't show what was said it is obviosu that there was some sort of delay. Again hard to Monday morning quarterback this, but had the rolled out 20 odd minutes earlier could they have saved the ambassador and the Sean Smith the IT guy?
 
Danjanou said:
Hard to say, one of the thigns I did read (in a movie review?) is that the whole compound was covered by secutrity cameras and the video record does show the team  ready to go, then getting out of their vehicles while what appears to be an argument enuses between the chief and a contrator. tehre follows a whole series fo on the bus off thebus for about 20 minutes which if I remember was the time period of the delay in mounting the resuce mission.  while the cameras can't/don't show what was said it is obviosu that there was some sort of delay. Again hard to Monday morning quarterback this, but had the rolled out 20 odd minutes earlier could they have saved the ambassador and the Sean Smith the IT guy?

Maybe they were arguing over how to interpret Hillary's text messages? :)
 
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