09/10 Budget Impact on PRes - Unit stand-downs, Class B Freeze, and so on!
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Haggis said:
My understand is that withe the transfer of the Comm REs from ADM(IM) to LFC, the ADM(IM) PRL will shortly be dissolved, and, like all other NDHQ elements, ADM(IM) will have their reservists held by the NDHQ PRL.
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Haggis said:
Actually, it was the old Comm Res PRL renamed. CFAO 2-8 (I think) referred to it. I believe the VCDS staff are pushing for ADM(IM) to be the same as everyone else - if they want to have reservists working for them, they can be on the NDHQ PRL. Only force generators will be keeping their PRLs - the ECSes and CANSOFCOM.
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COBRA-6 said:
If this is indeed the case, then some of you need to look at old fart's resume a little closer before calling him an idiot or anything else for that matter. He's been out from behind the desk quite a few times.
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Kat Stevens said:
I'd agree with that Kat.
It's also wise for everyone to remember that not all ResF trades are required to take the "same" courses (lots of ResF pers still take 'condensed versions') as their RegF counterparts. There's been some posts here that would lead one to believe that courses are the same regardless of component - that's not true.
At the end of the day though, no one should be tarred as "more worthy" or "not worthy" based upon only courses, op experience, or CF component ... words and deeds speak much louder than any of that. There are shitty pers out there regardless of component, op experience and courses undertaken. Anyone who chooses to tar a group based only upon the cover is RTFOo er.
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Sorry Kat. He could have every mission we've ever opened. His piss poor attitude still sucks and his tours are no excuse for him thinking he is better than anyone else. If anything, they should have expanded his horizons. Instead he remains a closed minded bigot.
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I've yet to read anything from him that says he thinks he's better than anyone else. He happens to be from the same era as me, when we would get reservists sent on ex/taskings with three years in the Mo and a leaf on their sleeve, expecting to be 2 ic of a section of reg force sappers and corporals who did the job all day and every day. 4 week TQ3 courses, 6 week TQ5A courses, 3 year jacks, 4year sergeants, 6 year WOs. Yes, things are 180 degrees better now, thank God, due in part to the fact that they are now actually what they were always supposed to be in the past: RESERVES. Look the word up. Old fart's point, that if you want to be a full time soldier, then get off the pot and be one is not invalid, no matter how distasteful we may find it. Yes, class B frees up reg troops to go be reg troops, no argument here. I find the class B system myself somewhat foolish, if you want the benefit and security of full time soldiering, than accept the full time obligation and liability that goes along with it. O F also stated enough times that he respects fully and completely the res troops who've stepped up, or was I the only one who read that?
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Kat Stevens said:
I do not remember reading this, I might have missed it.
What I remember reading from OF was something that came across that he would vote for slashing the PRes budget so that (His) RegF budget remain untouched or less affected.
His following explanation made it look like he had only contempt for the reserve, the thread devolving into another Reg/Res debate.
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Dissident said:
Fair enough, but has anyone asked him to clarify his position? What's unreasonable about spending more money on the reg force during a time of war? there are only so many dollars in the pot, fewer than a few years ago when the war was new and exciting.
edited to add- I've just reviewed 4 pages of O Fs posts, and did not see anything remotely resembling anti Mo hate speech, certainly nothing worthy of the venom he's getting here.
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Kat:
The theoretical model is a very small Reg F, ready to handle roto 0, roto 1 and maybe 2, and then a much larger Res force, which can surge to continue onwards.
Thus, in that paradigm, we'd reduce the Reg F infantry by 2/3; the engineers by half, the armd by 1/2, the guns by 1/3, and keep standing CSS much more than Cbt arms, given the larger training burden
Of course, the Reg F cbt arms types freak out at any sort of logic like that... and instead insist that we retain large, expensive reg F cbt arms units with not much to do motst of the time, and spend ridiculous amounts to sustain them.
Right now (and prior to deploying toA'stan) the Reg F has begun imploding - so we hire reservists to act as recruiters for the Reg F; once the new Reg F recruit reaches St Jean he'll be trained by Reservists at the school; then we'll send him to the schools of CTC with their hundreds of Reserve augmentees for his QL3.
Meanwhile, the Reg F refuses to fill positions in Res units.
Someone isn't fulfilling their part of the equation. And it sure as hell isn't the Reserves...
The theoretical model is a very small Reg F, ready to handle roto 0, roto 1 and maybe 2, and then a much larger Res force, which can surge to continue onwards.
Thus, in that paradigm, we'd reduce the Reg F infantry by 2/3; the engineers by half, the armd by 1/2, the guns by 1/3, and keep standing CSS much more than Cbt arms, given the larger training burden
Of course, the Reg F cbt arms types freak out at any sort of logic like that... and instead insist that we retain large, expensive reg F cbt arms units with not much to do motst of the time, and spend ridiculous amounts to sustain them.
Right now (and prior to deploying toA'stan) the Reg F has begun imploding - so we hire reservists to act as recruiters for the Reg F; once the new Reg F recruit reaches St Jean he'll be trained by Reservists at the school; then we'll send him to the schools of CTC with their hundreds of Reserve augmentees for his QL3.
Meanwhile, the Reg F refuses to fill positions in Res units.
Someone isn't fulfilling their part of the equation. And it sure as hell isn't the Reserves...
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As far as I'm concerned, he's clarified it by accepting what's been stated without rebuttal. I also missed what you say he stated. If I was the only one here that felt as such, I could say I'm misunderstanding, but I am far from the only one on this.
I also don't think I have to state my abundant TI, in more than one trade, and more than one element in places foreign and at home, in the Regs and Reserves, to know the difference in his attitude and the one you're purporting.
Anyway, people on all sides have their minds made up, and no amount of posting here is going to change that. So I will doff my hat and bid adieu to this discussion.
I also don't think I have to state my abundant TI, in more than one trade, and more than one element in places foreign and at home, in the Regs and Reserves, to know the difference in his attitude and the one you're purporting.
Anyway, people on all sides have their minds made up, and no amount of posting here is going to change that. So I will doff my hat and bid adieu to this discussion.
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Sounds great, because a neutered reg force worked pretty darn well between the two Great Misunderstandings. How are you going to mobilize this much larger res force without invoking the War Measures act, something we're pretty nervous about in Canada?
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aesop081
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recceguy said:
I certainly hope you include yourself in that group RG. It is rather clear that your mind is made up.
DAP, RG and many others......
Though your posts seem to be reasoned, you all contribute to the "Us vs Them" that you all deplore regularly.
Pot...kettle......
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Kat Stevens said:
Frankly, I don't care much anymore. Reservist will always be treated like the retarded cousin and he started to go down the same old road. He might be a really awesome guy, a great leader and a peerless warrior, but I was/am not interested in listening to the same rhetoric.
Kat Stevens said:
The OP tempo from our deployments would not have been sustainable (not by a long shot) for my trade had the reserve not stepped up. It would be great to have a dollar to dollar comparison on what the reg force MPs are costing versus what the res MPs are costing and how much each component has put out pers wise. Not a fair comparison, I know. What about other trades though?
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Dissident said:
Different thread.
old fart said:And, in closing as I have said before, I appreciate the Reserves who have stepped up to the plate and deployed overseas...without them under our present deployment modus operandi, carrying out the mandate of the Government of Canada would not be possible.
Yours aye....
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CDN Aviator said:I certainly hope you include yourself in that group RG. It is rather clear that your mind is made up.
Absolutely, I never professed otherwise. However, I am never adverse to listening to reasoned opinion, and have been known, on more than one occasion, to have surrendered and become converted to a view opposite, or different, to my original.
DAP, RG and many others......
Though your posts seem to be reasoned, you all contribute to the "Us vs Them" that you all deplore regularly.
Pot...kettle......
Considering there is no black and white, only various shades of grey, some darker than others, it really can't be any other way. Thanks for stating the obvious
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dapaterson said:
Guess what? The RegF refuses to fill posns in RegF Units too. Let's not pretend this is limited to ResF posns. Rather those posns are filled on the pri basis.
Perhaps all of the Army's troubles would go away had the political front treated this "war" just like it IS: A War. last time I cecked, there's officially no war happening. Doing that, of course, would costs a great many dollars as it would allow for rapid force expansion and increased government funding that would allow for those required personnel to actually "make it happen" get paid, trained, buy equipment etc. After a decade and a half of the Forces (both reg and Res) of stepping up to the plate and getting things done "more with less" ... we simply can't do that anymore. The days of the 90s are coming back to squarely bite us on the ass today. The bubble due to ZERO recruiting etc is starting with it's little "pops" ... I'm sure they'll be louder by end-FY.
The cause of the problem IMO? A decade of political handwringing, coupled by an ongoing refusal by todays government to officially acknowledge (either in public or elsewhere) that we ARE at war. I don't expect to see the CF getting the proper funding it requires to look after all of it's components until those political masters start informing Canadians as to the actualities of our mission, our funding, and our status as a nation.
Steven Staples et al are just loving this.
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aesop081
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dapaterson said:
Yeah right. How quickly memory fades. Want to talk about the mid-90s where reservists couldnt be bothered to come out for their own training exercises ? I sure spent a fair bit of extra field time those years filling in for missing reservists.
Theres plenty of balme to go around. Dont think for a second that the PRes doesnt shoulder any blame for the mess it is in.
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