So I really cant do anything if I need an Epipen?

[Level100MafiaBoss]

Contacted my medical officer. Essentially said that because I dont pass the medical standard, my application is on low priority. Which effectively means that my application will always be at the bottom.

Will my application even be considered if no other applicants are above me?

Or should I just give up going into the military?

 

[Rudburg]

You do have the right to appeal the medical decision. Your medical point of contact should be able to explain the administrative process. What you will need to provide will depend on your unique circumstances.

Entry into the Canadian Armed Forces requires that you meet all of the eligibility standards, which includes medical fitness. If you successfully appeal the medical decision, your application will be able to move forward again, and you can be considered for enrolment.

However, I do want to caution you that medical appeals are not always successful.

 

[Level100MafiaBoss]

You do have the right to appeal the medical decision. Your medical point of contact should be able to explain the administrative process. What you will need to provide will depend on your unique circumstances.

Entry into the Canadian Armed Forces requires that you meet all of the eligibility standards, which includes medical fitness. If you successfully appeal the medical decision, your application will be able to move forward again, and you can be considered for enrolment.

However, I do want to caution you that medical appeals are not always successful.

Am I actually rejected though? But I guess low priority pretty might as well be an unofficial rejection.

How would appealing an allergy work?

 

[Rudburg]

Am I actually rejected though? But I guess low priority pretty might as well be an unofficial rejection.

How would appealing an allergy work?

I am not qualified to give you medical advice and I don't have access to your file. I can only give you some guidance regarding the process.

Your best bet is take your questions to your medical point of contact.

 

[Winds]

Your file will eventually get looked at. If the recruiting medical staff is confident that you will be found to be medically unfit, it's probably because every applicant with similar conditions has been.

 

[medicineman]

Given how apparently entry standards are a moving target at the moment it seems, if you are applying as a skilled enrollee, they might be putting the application aside?

As for how to appeal, write a letter to the Recruit Medical Officer with data from your allergist regarding the type of allergy and response, likelihood of occurrence/reoccurrence, odds of you having a bounce back reaction after a primary dose of epinepherine, particularly regarding risks if in an environment without advanced medical care or prolonged evacuation to same - the things that they worry about regarding any kind of medical condition, as well as the risks to those that have to rescue you and replace you.

Hope that helps.

 

[ModlrMike]

The hard truth is that everyone gets to apply, not everyone gets to join. A person with a potentially life threatening allergy would probably be a risk the CF is unwilling to take.

 

[Level100MafiaBoss]

Your file will eventually get looked at. If the recruiting medical staff is confident that you will be found to be medically unfit, it's probably because every applicant with similar conditions has been.

It is the same medical standard for all applicants right?

And being medically unfit means that I dont pass that standard?

 

[Level100MafiaBoss]

The hard truth is that everyone gets to apply, not everyone gets to join. A person with a potentially life threatening allergy would probably be a risk the CF is unwilling to take.

But cant I just sign a form acknowledging the risk and that it would be my responsibility?

 

[Level100MafiaBoss]

Given how apparently entry standards are a moving target at the moment it seems, if you are applying as a skilled enrollee, they might be putting the application aside?

As for how to appeal, write a letter to the Recruit Medical Officer with data from your allergist regarding the type of allergy and response, likelihood of occurrence/reoccurrence, odds of you having a bounce back reaction after a primary dose of epinepherine, particularly regarding risks if in an environment without advanced medical care or prolonged evacuation to same - the things that they worry about regarding any kind of medical condition, as well as the risks to those that have to rescue you and replace you.

Hope that helps.

I applied for ACSO not sure if that changes anything.

Thanks for the appeal instructions! Will definitely help. The question is do I send it now or when I get an official rejection letter?

What do you mean by moving target? As in a case by case basis?

 

[PuckChaser]

But cant I just sign a form acknowledging the risk and that it would be my responsibility?

That's not how this works.

 

[da1root]

But cant I just sign a form acknowledging the risk and that it would be my responsibility?

Although we technically sign away our right to safety because of the whole going into combat zones part of our career; but signing away your right to life because of a medical condition isn't a thing. Honestly the fact that you need an epipen, and not sure what the allergy is... but what were to happen if you were in Latvia and had an allergic reaction and your epipen couldn't be found? That's the risk that the RMO is looking at.

And yes CEMS (been awhile but I believe it stands for Common Employment Enrolment Medical Standards) is the same across the board, once you're in and life dictates a change in medical conditions it's different for different occupations; that's why someone serving who gets out and tries to come back in might not meet CEMS even though they met their trade requirements - but to get in the door it's the same standard for everyone no matter what occupation you're trying to join. In some cases for occupations that are in high demand they might waive CEMS if you meet the trade requirements (this is likely what was meant by medical is a moving target)....

 

[AmmoTech90]

Risk reduction. There are a lot of risks in the military we can't control. You going anaphylactic and becoming combat ineffective is one we can control.

But cant I just sign a form acknowledging the risk and that it would be my responsibility?

It's not about you. It's about the people around you being put at risk because of you.

 

[medicineman]

I applied for ACSO not sure if that changes anything.

Thanks for the appeal instructions! Will definitely help. The question is do I send it now or when I get an official rejection letter?

What do you mean by moving target? As in a case by case basis?

A few other people beat me to it, but stuck in the back of a plane where you may or may not have the ability to land somewhere quickly to deal with an anaphylaxis beyond shooting you with your epipen is definitely a bad thing - seen many people shit the bed as it were from anaphylaxis even when we're doing things right. Regardless, if you don't meet Common Enrolment Medical Standards, much less those for aircrew, then you could well be hooped. I'd consider getting your ducks in a row ahead of the letter coming...as if I'm not mistaken, it may well.

What I mean by a moving target is it appears that some entry standards are changing based on skillsets, and things as far as medical standards seem to change with the tides lately - seen things along the lines of "what's new is old and what's old is new" a lot over the years.

I've included the "Medical Risk Matrix" that's used as a tool to look at odds of recurrence as well as severity of occurrences and type/level/immediacy of medical care required to deal with the health threat - anaphylaxis automatically requires skilled medical care within a very short time frame. Annex F - Medical Risk Matrix - Canada.ca

 

[OldSolduer]

Like these guys say its for your safety and the safety of others.
An example - We're on patrol near bad guys and all of a sudden "Johnny" finds whatever it is that causes him to go anaphylactic. That is going to draw a lot of attention. AND not good attention either. If we are in ear shot of the enemy and they are primed....

 

[Level100MafiaBoss]

Although we technically sign away our right to safety because of the whole going into combat zones part of our career; but signing away your right to life because of a medical condition isn't a thing. Honestly the fact that you need an epipen, and not sure what the allergy is... but what were to happen if you were in Latvia and had an allergic reaction and your epipen couldn't be found? That's the risk that the RMO is looking at.

And yes CEMS (been awhile but I believe it stands for Common Employment Enrolment Medical Standards) is the same across the board, once you're in and life dictates a change in medical conditions it's different for different occupations; that's why someone serving who gets out and tries to come back in might not meet CEMS even though they met their trade requirements - but to get in the door it's the same standard for everyone no matter what occupation you're trying to join. In some cases for occupations that are in high demand they might waive CEMS if you meet the trade requirements (this is likely what was meant by medical is a moving target)....

Applied for ACSO (Air Combat Systems Officer), I feel that its not in high demand? So I might not have much luck into getting it waived.

I have a shellfish allergy, in particular shrimp, which is the main reason for Epipen. But for other shellfish all I need are over the counter antihistamines.

 

[Winds]

Given how apparently entry standards are a moving target at the moment it seems, if you are applying as a skilled enrollee, they might be putting the application aside?

As for how to appeal, write a letter to the Recruit Medical Officer with data from your allergist regarding the type of allergy and response, likelihood of occurrence/reoccurrence, odds of you having a bounce back reaction after a primary dose of epinepherine, particularly regarding risks if in an environment without advanced medical care or prolonged evacuation to same - the things that they worry about regarding any kind of medical condition, as well as the risks to those that have to rescue you and replace you.

Hope that helps.

The medical standards aren't a moving target. It's possible for skilled/semi-skilled applicants to potentially waive the Common Enrolment Medical Standard (CEMS) to instead meet the trade-specific medical category requirements (been this way for many years). For example, CEMS has a minimum hearing standard of H2 but many trades have minimum of H3, if the applicant is skilled (former member trained in the trade) or semi-skilled (possessing civilian education/training in the trade) than it may be possible for them to join as H3.

The anticipated changes to the recruit medical system may see the abolishment of CEMS but the trade specific medical standards would persist. There'd still be medical categories that make someone unfit for employment in any trade, however.

Annex A - The Medical Category System - Canada.ca

Overview of the CAF medical category system

www.canada.ca

 

[Winds]

Applied for ACSO (Air Combat Systems Officer), I feel that its not in high demand? So I might not have much luck into getting it waived.

I have a shellfish allergy, in particular shrimp, which is the main reason for Epipen. But for other shellfish all I need are over the counter antihistamines.

ACSO does have a higher medical standard than most trades but, as far as this medical issue is concerned, it does not matter what trade you apply for. There are no waivers for such a condition.

 

[jaxhades94]

ACSO does have a higher medical standard than most trades but, as far as this medical issue is concerned, it does not matter what trade you apply for. There are no waivers for such a condition.

especially as shellfish can be found in any number of foods and health products because they're easily processed.

 

[medicineman]

The medical standards aren't a moving target. It's possible for skilled/semi-skilled applicants to potentially waive the Common Enrolment Medical Standard (CEMS) to instead meet the trade-specific medical category requirements (been this way for many years). For example, CEMS has a minimum hearing standard of H2 but many trades have minimum of H3, if the applicant is skilled (former member trained in the trade) or semi-skilled (possessing civilian education/training in the trade) than it may be possible for them to join as H3.

The anticipated changes to the recruit medical system may see the abolishment of CEMS but the trade specific medical standards would persist. There'd still be medical categories that make someone unfit for employment in any trade, however.

Annex A - The Medical Category System - Canada.ca

Overview of the CAF medical category system

www.canada.ca

When I was in Recruiting, the CEMS wasn't the issue, the moving target was and will continue to be about the conditions people have/had and how to view them in the occupational and operational medicine spectrums...and were a moving target even to serving members when it came to retention vs TCat vs PCat. Example - kidney stones. I think in the space of 5 or 6 years, not only did the enrolment standard change, but the retention standard changed as well 3 or 4 times regarding number allowed in your life/career, the time span allowed between attacks of renal colic and the like. I needed a separate folder just for CFP154 amendments and DMedPol "Pearls of Wisdom" stuff that kept changing. The whole allergy/anaphylaxis thing was something that changed quite a bit as well over my career - the main issue being what the offending allergen is, risk of exposure/re-exposure, if a safe desensitization therapy exists and could be trialed. I've seen it go from "we're paying for desensitization therapy for some things, especially if discovered after enrolment" to "too bad, so sad, there's the door".

One of the main reasons certain trades/classifications have a lower hearing standard as a for instance is that it's expected that you may have cumulative hearing loss over the course of your career, to allow for retention, especially in skilled trades. Lowering the standard to meet what the minimum trade standard is, IMHO, great for recruiting but gives little recourse if something happened where the person may need to be reroled into another trade or outright released - the wiggle room isn't there. An H2 screening also weeds out potential diagnoses of people that have pathologic hearing issues like otosclerosis that will worsen and end up costing the CAF money in surgery, hearing aids, and downtime of the member. Also, I don't want an already partially deaf person working with me - trying to figure out the actual hearing loss vs selective hearing loss is something that would annoy the crap out of me on a good day...